I have been thinking about how a lot of conspiracy theories that you see in the so called manosphere actually come from feminists. Take the conspiracy theory that Gloria Stienem worked for the CIA. Where did that come from? It came from other feminists as part of an internal fight where some feminists were trying to discredit her. That’s the type of thing I’m thinking of, not feminists planting conspiracy theories (although I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens as a strategy to discredit the MRM).
Many conspiracy theorists, likely the majority of conspiracy theorists, are feminists. That goes beyond the fact that the “patriarchy” the feminists believe in is a conspiracy theory. If you look at the David Icke forums (David Icke is one of the biggest conspiracy theorists out there and a feminist), there are conspiracy theorists actually quoting Andrea Dworkin and saying that there’s a conspiracy to commit “gynocide” (the genocide of women and only women) and elevate men by making us men “post sexual cyborgs with artificial wombs”. I’m sure sooner or later that conspiracy theory will be promoted by conspiracy theorists in the so called manosphere despite how obviously feminist it is.
If a feminist tell me something, I would assume it’s a lie. If a feminist told me the sky was blue I would assume they’re lying. So why does anyone believe conspiracy theories when they come out a feminists mouth? If you can’t figure that out then whenever you hear someone promote conspiracy theory whether it’s Hawaiian Fat Blob or John the Other, they are acting as a conduit for feminism.
Conspiracy theories come from feminists so that they can get other peoples’ money doled out to them by government held hostage at the ballot box.
And then claim even more money when their yarns start to rip society apart, since they need it to “fix” the problem.
The reality for most women is that they would prefer if most men dropped dead or handed over their money without complaint.
After all, “eye-rape” is now the newest scourge against women.
I’ve always wondered one thing though:
If men and women are equal,
how come women say that men can’t be raped?
After all, rape is sex or a sexual act done to someone, against their consent.
So does this mean women are ignoring rape of men? How can they be the kinder, gentler sex, and how can they be oppressed then? If they can be cruel … they can’t be oppressed.
Eye-rape story: http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/ReadersSubmissions2011/reader6932.htm
I often wonder if David Icke is just a very clever guy who found a way to make stacks of cash by tuning into people’s need to believe in conspiracy. Wasn’t L Ron Hubbard also quoted as saying the way to become a millionaire was to start your own religion?
Icke started out life in the England as a football (soccer) player but had to retire early through injury. He then became the BBC sports anchor man. Then he started on the mad stuff…
I’m starting to wonder the same about InMalaFide. He shows moments of clarity that make me think he’s got to be too smart to fully buy into this crap. It makes me think he may have been more of a true believer before and isn’t so much anymore but is too heavily invested to turn back now so he just goes along for the ride to cash in.
Yeah, I have had these moments of doubt about roosh, inamalafide, and others. It is always tempting to think these people cannot possibly be so deluded, and must be cashing in, but its so hard to say. Yes, these people have moments of lucidity, but the human mind is complex and can handle incredible amounts of cognitive dissonance. None of us are all of a piece, and even the craziest of us have moments of startling lucidity and sanity. So mere moments of sanity do not suggest to me that these people secretly know the truth necessarily, but simply that like all of us, they have discordant elements in their thinking.
I used to think roosh was just scamming his audience and did not believe his own idiocy, but I am not even so sure anymore. I often think that the belief systems of these people is just as important for their own psychologies (as overcompensations for inferiority complexes, etc) as their desire to make money – maybe even more important.
Roosh is probably the only honest person in the Roissyite-Paleo-Game Cult. His MO is one that truly does work; he approaches dozens of women, usually intoxicated, near closing time at a nightclub, with no regard for their appearance.
I’m not knocking the guy. He is simply doing things the old fashioned way, endless approaches. He even admits in his writings that he starts with the best looking girls, then works his way down the ladder.
This completely ignores the fact that even the most honest PUA in the sphere had to expat to have any success with women.
Really, if these idiots were more like Roosh and less like Roissy, they would probably be a lot happier. Pick up is a numbers game. “inner game” is cultish weirdness trying to mimic self-help.
I think inner game is actually a great concept in theory. Way more important than obsessing over how to bang skanks. It’s just that I think none of these guys have even a hint of enough self-awareness to be qualified to teach anyone about doing any sort of inner work.
ybm, Roosh is involuntarily honest. He does not set out to be honest – in fact he explicitly claims that game is real and is a major part of his success – but if you have any brain and read between the lines he pretty much admits straight out that game does not work and it is all about numbers. He admits this again and again and again, but his readers dont seem to draw the obvious conclusions. Its surreal.
Either roosh is incredibly clever at marketing or a complete idiot who stumbled onto an important fact about his audience – when he makes these *candid* posts about how game does not work, he is trying to boost his credibility and make himself *relate* to the struggles and failures of his readership. Thing is, anyone with a brain soon realizes that roosh is providing strong and repeated evidence that game does not work, and anyone who has the kind of personality to religiously believe in game, actually does relate to roosh and completely fails to connect the dots and see that roosh is practically screaming at him – again and again – that game does not work. Now, the critical thinking guys who would draw the obvious conclusions from rooshs posts would have left game sooner or later anyways, and the religious types are completely irrational anyways, so they completely ignore what roosh is actually saying and just *relate* to his failures on an emotional level. It is either a brilliant strategy or a completely accidental *tactic* that is a good example of an idiot succeeding despite his incredible idiocy, heck, because of his idiocy
Interestingly, I used to follow roosh, and rooshs repeated self-admitted failures with game and women was ONE important factor in getting me to question game
Roosh wrote this book about his travels in S America – which I read – in which he repeatedly details his failures with women, is quite clear that he had practically NO success with game in S America, and gives this lovingly described example of this Italian guy who he says did everything absolutely contrary to game and yet was HUGELY successful with the women, to the point where some women were throwing themselves at him. Roosh then says that this guy was just a bizarre outlier but game still works!?!?! Again, either he is an irrational wacko, or he has a fiendish grasp of the irrationality of his audience and their appetite for cognitive dissonance 
Wow, thats a great analysis, really good job Kevin!
I think with Roosh its a case of beliving game works when his own life proves it doesn’t work as oart if some sort of cognitive dissonance. It’s simlar to the paleo dieters who got problems like chest pains from the paleo diet, but declared the paleo diet to be a success anyway. It’s the same thing.
Over time Baradmu has gotten more and more insane, but it all could be an act. He always was into monetizing his blog as much as possible. (Every so often someone advances the idea that Bardamu is Advocatus Diaboli which would make sense if he’s doing it just for the money.) As far as I’m concerned, I have the same problem that I have with David Icke. He’s impedeing the progress of anti-feminism with his conspiracy crap.
It’s definitely possible, although some of stuff he did at the beginning of his conspiracy theorist career like declaring himself to be the “son of the godhead” in a TV interview could have easily got him put in an insane asylum. In other words, I can’t be sure, but it doesn’t matter except as a method to discredit Icke. Icke is opposed to anti-feminism and has used conspiracy theory to defend feminism. For instance, Icke lies by saying that all family court problems are due to pedophiles who worship the devil trying to steal kids from parents when the reality is that family courts are feminist institutions working for women to steal children and assets from fathers. This means we have to fight Icke since his conspiracy theories impede the progress of anti-feminism.
Feminists have to resort to bizarre conspiracies; reality does not match what they believe.
“Why are some women so mean to other women? Maybe some women are just jerks. No, that can’t be it, women are pure and innocent, it must be a male plot to turn women against each other.”
“Why aren’t there more women in science, math, or computer programming? It can’t be that women think those things are nerdy–there must be a male plot to keep women out.”
etc.
Speaking of conspiracy theorists, check out this new guy (I think) Ferdinand had post recently:
http://www.inmalafide.com/blog/2012/02/23/the-wizard-knows-everything/
I’m convinced Ferdinand’s trolling his own audience now just to see how far gone they are. He makes OneSTD sound smart. If this guy is for real, it really makes me wonder: what is it about conspiracies that makes believers into instant experts worthy of blogs?
What’s that guy talking about? I thought he was trying to make some sort of philosophical point, but then he veers off into talking about (of course) game, and related subjects.
FB – isn’t that guy a catholic? Mystic beardy sky man created the whole universe and everything in it, and is terribly upset that people occasionally slip a franger over their hello sailor. I tend to think He (God) should stop peeking into people’s bedrooms if what goes on in there upsets Him so much.
I think I’ll wander over there and troll that post a little.
“So why does anyone believe conspiracy theories when they come out a feminists mouth?”
Paranoid people believe any conspiracy theory, regardless of where it came from. Anyone who hasn’t already done so should read “The Paranoid Style in American Politics”, by Hofstadter. Google also the phrase “Crank Magnetism” – people who believe one nutty thing tend to believe dozens.
I was right when I vowed to leave behind the MRA community. I said I would block every site except Fidelbogen, BP, Forweg and AVfM…
But I was too busy to manually put all sites in one by one, so today I somehow stumbled onto marky mark’s site and saw this:
http://markymarksthoughts.blogspot.com/2012/02/catastrophe-in-sex-relations.html
The battle has been lost. The MRA has been taken over.
You know I used to say that it takes gamers 3-5 years to awaken, but I was going off of the general community where guys are encouraged to leave the house an practice this stuff.
The MRA is the only place in the world where you have people who openly proclaim never having tried game, never tried applying it, or studying it… Yet they defend it and make the same batshit insane statements like “game will part the seas and make pussy rain from the sky and the world will
Magically become a paradise thanks to the god of game which hall ensure nothing is ever bad and all is amazing…”
I mean you have guys who openly admit not having interacted with females for 20-30 years, have no formal theoretical knowledge either (social psychology, Evo psych training)… But they praise how “spot on” the god of game is…
This is worrying… In the general community guys who actually applied this shit took 3-5 years to awaken. How long does it take married gamers? What about “haven’t talked to a woman in 30 years but I support game and believe anyone criticizing it is crazy” type of guys?
Yes, you were. I have been playing around with the idea of calling myself a Rational Anti-Feminist Activist (RAFA) or Rational Anti-Misandrist Activist (RAMA) because the whole MRM has been taken over.
I know you disagree, but even AVfM is in the same boat. I have been doing more reading of AVfM posts, and I’m finding a lot more conspiracy theory. For example, I found this post where JtO is making false accusations that Leo Strauss, a professor of philosophy and politics, created neo-conservativism to engineer a facist takeover. This is another example of a conspiracy theory that comes from people sympathetic to feminism although it isn’t about feminist issues.
It reminds me of when the Dominique Strauss-Kahn false rape fiasco was going on. Despite knowing that this was a false rape case, many MRAs were still ready to hang him because of his religion/race (Jewish), his job (then head of the IMF) or his politics (leftist/socialist). If I’m the victim of a false rape charge will the MRM support me? I can’t be sure. My politics are to the left of the Ron Paul fringe, I have distant Jewish ancestry, and I have lots of money. This means the MRM could hang me out to dry.
I don’t know where Paul Elam is on all of this. Either he agrees with the conspiracy theory and the rest of the crap in which case he’s part of the problem, or he doesn’t in which case he is simply not competent enough to be a an anti-feminist leader. If it’s the latter, Elam is not competent enough to lead because he can’t deal with everyone from the gamers to the conspiracy theorists to the white supremacists who are trying to take over the MRM or rather have taken over the MRM. Even in cases like game where Elam took a stand against game, he botched the whole thing up by giving the gamers another platform to take over (the Elam-Frost debate).
This reminds me that I need to purge some links:
MarkyMark – Because of the reasons that you said
AVfM – Because it’s run by conspiracy theorists
Dr. Helen – Because she got sucked into game via Vox Day
I suspect the answer is never. Even married gamers who get divorced don’t give on game even though it failed them (see that mormon men blogger for the ultimate example).
I have an idea for dealing with this which I can’t reveal publically because it won’t work if it is known. Even that idea won’t deprogram the gamers and the conspiracy theorists. It will just drive a wedge between them and anti-feminism so we can get rid of them.
The future of anti-feminism is angry young men. Young men have lived their entire lives under the feminist jackboot. Most of them have never heard of the manosphere, but they know the evil women have done to them, their fathers, their uncles, and their brothers. These angry young men will get older and still be angry. Many boys will grow up to become angry young men. Eventually this will reach critical mass. This is the future I’m working towards now.
Anger is a legitimate reaction to injustice, and anger has granted many successes to feminism; I see no reason why it should be moderated to the point where it cannot drive men to fight injustice wrought by feminism and misandry.
I hope neither of you (or the other frequent visitors here) quit the MRA movement. If you want to step away for a while, then come back and see what you think of it after a break to recharge your batteries, that would be a good idea. But I for one would sure miss the discussions and sharing of infor that take place at sites like this.
I didn’t leave the MRM. The MRM left me.
If you what you meant is that you’re worried that I’m going to stop blogging, I’m not going to do that. Someone has to carry the torch of rational anti-misandry.
I’m not going to stop fighting and talking about misandry. In fact I’ll take it one step further and start doing videos soon.
I’m just not going to be “an MRA”, nor define mysel through it. I’ll just be a phislopher or a skeptic who happens to be anti-misandry (among other things).
I like this post that breaks down why many anti-feminists fall for various conspiracy theories:
http://wimminz.wordpress.com/2011/07/01/ivory-towers-of-ignorance/
Also I have only read some of the things on this site, but I’m curious what the sentiments here are towards the wimminz blog (I am guessing you guys are aware of it).
Hilariously that blog was the one that finally grossed me out enough about the game-sphere to stop reading blogs except Alek, BP, and Dalrock. That guy is the logical end of burying yourself in the gamesphere long enough that it turns you into a freak. I hope it is a troll blog because otherwise I get a vague feeling of menace from reading that blog. Like a man on the verge of frenzy.
I don’t really view it a gamer blog but more of a mgtow blog or that man’s version of it.
The internet dating series is interesting, but form me it isn’t the main attraction.
My first impression of the blog was not favorable, but when I looked past the language I found the man is worth reading. I am still not sure how I feel about all the bits and views of this man though. I personally have never had any problems with women like FRA etc. So I won’t be able to fully understand a guy like him and other guys who’ve experienced misandry directly.
What I find most interesting about the blog are the posts on the future and how one must be prepared. Some sort of major change (resource war, change in governance, economic collapse etc.) is coming soon. The exact timing and nature of this change is unpredictable. Feminst governance will be replaced by something else. What will this something else be? How do we position ourselves to not get fucked. Do we need to arm ourselves? Do we need to think about how to avoid being drafted into a war? Etc. etc.
Well, the chance of a Toba-Catastophe event occuring in our lifetimes is incredibly small. Rome was not built in a day, and it certainly didn’t fall in a day. The East lasted another 1,000 years after the west had abandoned the cities. Unemployment and debt levels are bad, worse than any time in living memory for millenials. But the problems of today are miniscule compared to the problems of almost all of the centuries before the 21st. I’m not living in a city under seige by Mongols or infected with Bubonic Plague, our modern societies problems are small.
Things like feminism are a side-effect of extreme consumption and free-time. Those two things are definitely coming to an end for the west, I agree with doomers when they say this. Men and women of the west are going to have to work a lot harder for a lot less and spend a lot less in the coming century. But that doesn’t mean we will be squatting in a ditch poking berries up our noses. Women, always selfish and always acting in their own interest, will simply fall back into waif mode as feminism suddenly loses its life-line of a fat government cheque. This is the reason I think all the MRA stuff is a fools game. At the end of the day, the male human is a slave to the female human, he has been bred this way. Whether being a workhorse to carry the load of wife and child and die for king and country, or tax-slave put to the sword on the divorce court and die in a desert for the oil that powers the gears of consumption (by females). Man means slave, now, and forever.
Unfortunately our relative decline in lifestyle will be a catastophe for the poor of the world.
ybm, that sounds like a step too far to me. In many primitive societies, women do more work than men, and in many traditional societies women do a tremendous amount of back breaking labor, easily equal to men. In primitive times, the female task of gathering was more laborious – although less dangerous – than the male task of hunting. Historically in the West women did as much if not more work than men, especially in the lower classes. It was only in the delicate upper classes that women were seen as fragile hothouse flowers, a relic of knightly attitudes towards women, itself a product of the Christian suppression of carnal love which had then to find a non-carnal expression (as the idealization of love between the sexes and the idealization of women) – but then, men did little work in this class either, aside from pleasurable work like governing or fighting, and only if so inclined – there were scores of completely idle male aristocrats. The upper middle class attempt to ape the manners of the aristocracy in the 19th century led to a bizarre situation where the men worked to make money and women had essentially very little to do. But this has always been an historical anomaly.
Historically, it was women were slaves to men, in terms of work and obedience.
But it really does not matter what is *bred* in us historically. I dont believe in instincts, I believe in survival strategies. Our *instincts* are merely capacities that we can bring into play if the situation calls for it. For instance, I do not think there is an *instinct* for violence, there is a capacity for it, a capacity which we will bring into play if we find ourselves in a situation where violence is our best option. In my own life, I have lived in safe countries where I have been docile and non-violent, and you would have said I simply lacked the *instinct* for violence. Other times I have lived in countries where violence and aggression were essential to my survival, and I adapted accordingly, and you would have said I was a violent hot head. But it was simply a question of strategy, there was no *instinct* involved.
Its the same with male-female roles and relationships – they will optimize themselves in response to environmental incentives. They are not held hostage to our *instincts*.
Great post, Kevin. I could not agree more about capacities vs. instincts.
An instinct is “someone threatened me, so I attack them every time.” If you are threatened and you might attack, or you might run away, or you might laugh in their face, or you might talk them out of it, or you might go and call the cops, you aren’t acting upon instinct.
lol, thats a good point and an excellent way of putting it, real peterman – if you have a bunch of different options, then you are not exactly acting on *blind* instinct, are you? instinct implies at least some level of compulsion.
Sorry guy, I was writing on some game blogs at the same time as I was posting on here. Posting on those things really winds me up because you literally arent allowed to disagree with them.
G, that’s an excellent blog and I hadn’t come across it before. Thanks for the link!
Yeah I think too many guys will dismiss the author because of the language. But read a few entries and you realize the man writing the blog is no dummy. One must also understand the man’s FRA experience and other life experience to fully appreciate his perspective. I am still digesting it.
Can’t speak for anyone on here but the wimminz blog certainly doesn’t strike me as a game blog. It seems to tie in with anti-game more than anything.
I felt very angry on this guy’s behalf when reading the FRA stuff. I can’t blame the author for wanting to let off steam.
Definitely anti-game. The biggest lies about “game” / being a player / alpha:
http://wimminz.wordpress.com/2011-04/the-biggest-lies-about-game-being-a-player-alpha/
Here’s something people might like, on the topic of conspiracy theorists:
“Alex Jones is the King of All Crackpots”
http://buffalobeast.com/?p=11565
A CT told me to do my research…by watching Alex Jones. He tried to draw communism and feminism together, and to be honest…that is a long shot. Plus, the CT also thought feminism started 50 years ago.
I…I have lost faith in the human race.
Pingback: Where Is The Real World Action? | The Black Pill
Good video, insane comments, especially from newworldodour.
Ex: I’ll say the same thing to you as Niki Rockefeller said to Aaron Russo “you’re an idiot” Because you have a problem with people that are geopolitically aware and do not deal with theories but facts you don’t believe conspiracies exist?! Do you know how to use google? There is so much evidence of conspiracy facts it’s not even debatable. Tell me USS liberty attack theory or fact? Also watch?v=lhJCTFZf03A Nothing to do with feminism? Did I say idiot? I meant MORON!!!
Riiiiiiiiiight.
Pingback: Conspiracy Theory At AVfM | The Black Pill