Men Get Rejected More Than Women By Any Metric

One of the top ways that the MDAD (Misandrist Dating Advice Distraction) tricks men is by deceiving men into thinking women have it just as bad as them in some different but equal way.  This is the case with the “men can get relationships easier” myth.  With that myth, what happens is that men notice women can get laid easier, but women try to trick men into thinking that men can get relationships easier.  However, if you aren’t having sex then you aren’t having a relationship (i.e. there is no such thing as a sexless relationship if you’re neither young nor a religious fundamentalist) so since it’s harder for men to get laid, it is also harder for men to get relationships.

We see something similar when it comes to rejection.  Men will point out how they have to deal with most of all the rejection that happens.  (This is because men are in the position of having to initiate with women instead of the other way around.)  In response to this, women will try to trick men by pointing out that women have to “wait” to get asked out, making “not getting asked out” a form of “rejection”.  In other words, men and women are equally rejected just in different ways.  Even if you buy that (and you shouldn’t), it still falls apart for women.  If “not getting asked out” is a form of rejection, then men are still getting rejected more, even more so than if that wasn’t considered “rejection”.  Since women don’t ask out men for the most part, this means that most men are getting even more rejection than the explicit rejections than they already get.

No matter how women try to apply mental gymnastics to the idea of “rejection”, reality has the last word.  The reality of the situation is that men have to deal with rejection way more than women do.  No matter how the definition of “rejection” is changed, it still ends up being true.

I wish I could take credit for this idea, but I can’t.  I found it of all places at The Castrated Men Project.  (Even at The Castrated Men Project where you wouldn’t expect men to fight back against feminism, there are men disagreeing with the feminist agenda.  This example of male commentors standing up to gynocentric thinking isn’t unique at the site.)

About these ads

103 responses to “Men Get Rejected More Than Women By Any Metric

  1. y’know, I think one of the reason’s Marcotte and the other she beasts, uhm, I mean good hearted feminists(borrow flashing SARCASM button from the bloated Manboobz bigot) are against prostitution is not because they “care about women from the wrong side of the tracks” but because they want men who wouldn’t give them a second look to be in a constant state of sexual frustration…

  2. In this day and age, a man will be extremely unlikely to get into a relationship with a woman who isn’t already sexually attracted to him.

    Since women benefit from massive wealth transfer from men to women, they no longer have to put as much emphasis on a man’s intelligence, accomplishments, or ability to provide.

    So, she raises her sights to the most physically and socially dominant males she can get her hands on. Who are the guys also least likely to want a committed relationship.

    So the nonsense that “men have an easier time getting relationships” is, again, the female tendency to only look “up” when they say the word “man” not below.

  3. Look here guy,I’ve come to take a liking to you over the years,and I’ve got some advice.
    Turn your back on the castrated man project and never go back.
    The mental aerobics this misandrists use will drive a thinking man insane.
    It’s what they’re trained to do,and it’s their mission to move the Overton window by constant Hegelian dialectic.
    Seriously: since we can’t simply smash-mouth over the net,walk away.

  4. That’s a great point, Black Pill. Thanks for bringing this up. It’s amazing how many feminist claims can be obliterated by simple logic.

    I look over at that topic and see women saying “I don’t feel privileged so therefore I’m not privileged.” All they care about are feelings, not reason.

  5. Same ol’, same ol’.

    You could be writing about prostate cancer and the wimminz would claim girls have it worse. It don’t mean nothing, just reflexive attention whoring and claims to victimhood.

      • well, this is kind of a subtle point….

        look at the disagreement between Barbarosaaaa and Fidelbogen on the concept of hypergamy….

        If men’s rights/MGTOW is going to appeal to more than celibate men and gay men, it will have to discuss sexual politics and dating at some point or another….

        • I see. WHere we differ is on what your definition of men’s rights are. I donate, and focus on criminal and family law reform, equal rights, education and heath care.

          I don’t mind talking about dating inequalities and the fucked up state of intersexual relations. But you have to remember one thing: I’m only a dual citiozen of Canada, I wasn’t born here and I have no intention to stay here once my nonna passes and I can arrange my disabled sister to come with me back to Italy.

          The fucked up culture of passive misandry (creepy virgin rapists aka the Amanda Marcotte guide to dating and mating) doesn’t exist outside of the anglosphere.

          Simply put, I do agree with ‘feminists’ in one way: Dating and Mating aren’t Men’s Rights, they aren’t women’s rights either despite the fat-acceptance movements claims otherwise.

          Blackpill takes a middle path between the two of us, you feel talking about dating should be part of MRA, I don’t, Blackpill seems to fall somewhere in the middle.

          There is an old Bedouin adage: Me against my brother, us against our cousin, our family against our neighbour.

        • Blackpill takes a middle path between the two of us, you feel talking about dating should be part of MRA, I don’t, Blackpill seems to fall somewhere in the middle.

          I don’t take a “middle road” on this issue as such. What I’m trying to do is eliminate one of the most powerful weapons against mens rights. There’s a reason why I talk about the “Misandrist Dating Advice Distraction” and not how to get laid.

        • ybm,

          I don’t know how personal I should get on the net, but here’s some background…

          My parents had an abusive marriage…

          Mommy was a 2nd wave feminist, slapped me around….

          Didn’t see Daddy too much, he slapped me around a little….

          (Both stopped by the time I was 12, I asked my mom why she stopped hitting me and she said ’cause I was now bigger than her.)

          Wanted to be a professional musician-there was NOOOOOOO family support-get a real job, find a nice girl, get married-I was given the “traditional” script.

          Ironically, my sister had more freedom then I did. She got to party while I was expected to be studious. I’m being judgemental, she squandered her freedom….

          Well, all this was before I’d heard of MGTOW, men’s rights-etc….

          Looking back, my mother had a low opinion of me and still high expectations of me–if that’s not objectification(to use a feminist term,) I sure as fuck don’t know what is….

          I was told my dreams were stupid and worthless. As I grew up I pretty much saw that most women my age weren’t worth marrying. I seemed to fall into MGTOW. Well, maybe you don’t think that men’s rights should worry about who pays for the bill on a date and maybe you don’t think that men’s rights should concern itself with theories like female hypergamy. But I’ll tell you, I came to this because I’ve basically rejected the idea that I should be a protector or provider or that I should “man up” and “marry a slut.” So, from my point of view MGTOW/men’s rights gets swept into relationships between men and women without a doubt. Wether a man decides to marry or not, the inequality starts before vows are exchanged…

          I believe that one of the biggest flaws of feminism was to not see males as they are (ie the apex fallacy.) With terms like hegemonic masculinity and such, they created a false worldview. (Yes, I know many will say professional victimhood.) So, you can’t discuss most men’s issues without discussing how they interact with women. Otherwise you have the one sided discussion you have in feminism…

        • I guess I’m part of the ‘middle road’ than I thought because I agree with you. Carry on SWAB. I guess I just took exception to men’s rights only appealing to gay men and celibate men, since I’m neither…

      • Yes, dating is not mens rights, but things like all the BS about “nice guys” is about more than dating. It’s a derivative of the “you’re pissed because you can’t get laid” lie to derail mens rights and men standing up for themselves in general. It’s used to keep men from fighting back against their own enslavement. That’s makes it a mens rights issue. It has nothing to do with dating.

        • Bp I’ve been mulling over an idea this afternoon since I dint lecture on Tuesday’s and thursdays, what actually is the so called manosphere?

          If you take away the rackets like roissy, the scammers like mmsl, the tradcons like dalrock, and the conspiracy nuts like Dave from Hawaii, what the hell is even there?

          “game” specifically bro game/ frat boy game (h/t shackle ford).

          It seems obvious why the roissysphere is so keen on linking game and mra, because without it, there really isn’t anything to the “red pill” concept at all except niteclub/bro culture.

          I think we eventually need to take a higher level look at the red pill concept, as you’ve done a couple times. Essentially, if we can tear down the red pill concept itself, all these otherwise unrelated groups really should just fade away.

        • It seems obvious why the roissysphere is so keen on linking game and mra, because without it, there really isn’t anything to the “red pill” concept at all except niteclub/bro culture.

          That and the paleo diet, but otherwise there isn’t anything else. Even the paleo diet is something that they stole from someplace else. Without the MRM, then there is nothing but niteclub/bro culture to the “red pill”. Regardless of whether any particular Roissyite gamer is trying to sell something or not, they have the problem of being a late entrant into the game universe. It’s like a pyramid scheme where the “early adopters” (such as Eben Pagan, Strauss, Mystery, etc.) make out like bandits, but the late adopters are desperate for other audiences because the main audience for game has gone to other game gurus. This is why they’re so desperate to hold onto a link to the MRM. They’re looking for an untapped customer base. It’s the same reason you see LTR/marriage game only in the so called manosphere. They’re desperate for an audience that already hasn’t been grabbed by the main game gurus.

          One thing I have noticed on the recent link to Dalrock was someone talking about how “everything they knew was wrong”. Besides being impossible, this shows how the “red pill” is really a lot of extraneous bullshit to trick you into not noticing that it’s nothing but nightclub/bro culture.

  6. “When I first started The Spearhead, the intent was for the site to serve as a catalyst for a new approach to dealing with feminism. I was partly inspired by Heartiste, who rapidly attracted a large following with his witty approach to Game and his incisive critique of contemporary sexual politics. His approach was fresh, new and a whole lot of fun to read. A number of bloggers saw his unabashed iconoclasty and found themselves agreeing wholeheartedly — these writers formed the real core of the emergent manosphere. Heartiste (then known as Roissy) wrote things that nobody dared say, but he did it in such a sophisticated, intelligent way that it was impossible to write him off as a primitive vulgarian. ”

    http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/12/05/some-thoughts-on-the-manosphere-growing-up/

    Fuck W.F. Puke and the-dickhead…..

    I’m not gonna side with White Nationalist sympathizers, when are these assholes gonna realize they have more in common with their “enemies” than not…

    http://dearwhitefeminists.wordpress.com/update/

    • I’ve been dropping truth bombs about game fraud at Dalrocks and in typical fashion, when told tha there is no medical study that says you can create attraction, they dismiss it as some grand conspiracy or “game is too politically incorrect” or that there is “no competing ideology”.

      • They think at Dalrock that there is no competing ideology? How about DON’T FUCKING BOTHER with women? Even if they were right about game, not bothering with women would still be a better option.

        • Actually BP, Dalrock HIMSELF replied to me that “there is no competing hypothesis to games success according to manosphere bloggers like Dave from Hawaii and Married Man Sex LIfe”. Implying that it is true simply because they said so.

          Not just the commentators, Dalrock himself said that. TFH then took to accusing another commentator as being an Alek Novy sockpuppet.

          Both guys I had spoken highly of in the past, I cannot say I can defend them any longer.

        • Actually BP, Dalrock HIMSELF replied to me that “there is no competing hypothesis to games success according to manosphere bloggers like Dave from Hawaii and Married Man Sex LIfe”. Implying that it is true simply because they said so.

          Not just the commentators, Dalrock himself said that. TFH then took to accusing another commentator as being an Alek Novy sockpuppet.

          Both guys I had spoken highly of in the past, I cannot say I can defend them any longer.

          Fat blob from Hawaii and MMSL said it was true? That’s a good indicator that it’s wrong because everything that has come out of those two’s mouths has turned out to be wrong.

          I used to think that Dalrock, TFH, & Bill Price were more or less on the level. Now, I know better.

        • SInce my last visit to Dalrock’s some strange and wonderful person called ‘yfr’ has so thoroughly taken down TFH and Roosh in a thread that I’m simply going to bookmark the comment section and quote from it when TFH goes on one of his brain-dead rants again in the future.

          I think he might be the next to have a meltdown.

        • I just went over there to see what you meant ybm. He is indeed dropping some bombs, but as usual not a lot of people are listening. Interestingly enough I noticed our friend Leap of a Beta is a commenter in the same thread.

        • Not just the commentators, Dalrock himself said that. TFH then took to accusing another commentator as being an Alek Novy sockpuppet.

          WAAAAAAAAAAAIT WAIIIIT!!!!!!!

          I had to triple-check the date on your comment just now (december 2012). I’ve actually been away from this part of the internet for almost a year AND THEY ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT ME?

          I can’t belive this. Is this for real? Let me get this straight, I’ve spent the past 9 months being away from this sphere devoting it to banging models, dancers, students, and celebrities in the real world, and at THE SAME TIME all these blog keyboard jockeys SPENT THE SAME TIME still being on their keyboards at home, typing away and still banging away conspiracy theories about ME? It’s been a fucking year since I ever stepped foot in this sphere. Fuck.

          I think this is literally the second time I am opening even BP’s blog in the past year. I’ve opened aaron’s like 5-6 times, but that’s it. I’ve literally been too busy living an amazing life to even be on the internet.

          I really feel sad for those bros. I mean REALLY? The aleknovy sockpuppet theory is still alive in december 2012? Please tell me you’re referencing some past episode from last year?

        • Im just about to leave town I’m flying home for Christmas I’ll try to look up the post on dalrock about you but searching four it is a pain on an iPhone I’ll have my laptop at the airport.

        • yea, with the exception of Dalrock for divorce stats and Blackpill for the ‘real talk’ I’m pretty much a ghost of days gone by. You however seem to have become a combination of Voldemort and Cobra Commander to the Roissysphere. I stick around here so when men suspicious of the game-fraud come by I can give them some advice without getting dogpiled by the nutters.

          If you still write on your private blog send me an invite to

          yaboyincanada @ gmail.com

          I was trying to get the study for when men and women offered dates/apartment/sex on the street but your blog (the private one) is the only google result that has it.

          And with that I’m off across the Atlantic and I’m not coming anywhere near a game-blog until January at the earliest. MC + HNY

      • TFH has been crazy for a while. He’s among the most cultlike in his fawning admiration of game. He also flies off the handle the worst whenever game is challenged. It just goes to show even smart guys can get sucked into cults. In some cases they even fall into them worse because they’re smart enough to construct more complex and more plausible rationalizations and have the mental horsepower necessary to manage all those defense mechanisms that keep them from seeing the truth.

        • Yeah, I learned everything I needed to learn from that thread.

          No point in debating in Dalrock’s comment section anymore. Its the same 5-10 game hucksters circlejerking and using petty name calling like “Aspie” which I used to do until Forweg rightly called me out on it. Now I know better.

          I’ll leave them to their circus from now on. Dalrock is fully in line with the Roissysphere, and he will sink or swim along with them. I’m not going to waste my time anymore.

        • Here is an Asperger’s checklist:

          http://www.ehow.com/facts_5214863_mild-asperger_s-symptoms.html

          Social Problems
          Individuals with mild Asperger’s symptoms typically find it hard to make and keep friends. While they are personable and friendly, they lack the ability to judge personal space and understand social cues.

          Game often obsesses over how to stand like an alpha, how to time conversations, scripts for what to say, how to manage personal space, read social cues, and how to micromanage every aspect of a conversation and sexual encounter into a rigid, one size fits all flowchart.

          Communication Problems
          Mild Asperger’s symptoms often cause communication problems because of a patient’s lack of eye contact, awkward gestures and few facial expressions. Asperger’s patients also have trouble understanding humor and tend to interrupt when others are talking.

          PUAs talk about proper eye contact, how to keep from doing awkward body language, and Roissy had a post yesterday about reading a woman’s facial expression, and how to give a facial expression in return to the woman’s facial expression.

          Obsessive Behavior
          Asperger’s syndrome patients frequently have an obsession with one or two particular, narrow subjects, such as maps, street names or the weather. These patients can talk about their obsessions incessantly.

          We’ve all seen how obsessive gamers get when talking game techniques, catchphrases, acronyms, and best techniques for pussy-begging. They can talk about game incessantly.

          I think where I’m going with this is clear. Many of the things that gamers obsess over and have trouble with are things that normal people have no problem with but that asperger’s people find challenging. I think many PUAs are either asperger’s sufferers or at least fear they are, because they obviously fit so many of the symptoms. This, like everything else including just waking up and breathing, causes them great shame, so they keep looking for other people to call “aspies” and project their self-hatred onto them so as to feel better about themselves. Classic projection. “I’m not an apsie, YOU ARE. Since you’re so obviously more asperger’s than me, I must not have it then.”

        • Well, specifically Griz, “Aspie” has become the go-to bullying phrase for internet trolls like /b/ and SA goons, as if someone having a mental illness is something that should be made fun of.

          I started using that phrase (I’ve been on SA since 2002 and it helped me learn English) not really understanding. I posted a rather tasteless comment one using “Aspie” in it and Forweg commented on it calling me a hypocrite. He was absolutely right, considering I have a disabled sister and how I feel when someone uses the term ‘retard’ so I deleted my comment and tucked my tail between my legs.

        • Oh I get where the term “aspie” came from, from different places online, but I do think that the people most obsessed with using it to bully are the ones who have the most symptoms for it themselves ironically. Roissy loves the term for example, and his mental masturbating about topics like IQ, race, and game reeks of the type of obsessive hobbyism asperger’s articles mention. I read the Mystery Method once, to my eternal shame, and I get the same impression about Mystery. There’s a lot of self-hate and fear of discovering one has asperger’s themself in the bullying.

        • I don’t really think that’s why they use “Aspie”. It’s just the latest Internet meme to dehumanize people without actually being able to speak against anything they actually are or say. They use it as another means of posturing themselves as superior alphas. Actual Aspies are more the people PUAs try to EXPLOIT.

          The one exception might be Matt Forney, who wrote an article implying ALL feminists and ALL “MRAs” have Asperger’s Syndrome, and this is why they are ALL ugly and sub-human. Or something like that. He was serious, too.

          Forney is certainly obsessive, and definitely mentally ill, but I don’t know if he has Asperger’s. He sure the hell is nothing like me.

        • I don’t know if they actually are suffering from asperger’s. I do think though that they FEAR they have asperger’s. They seem to have a lot of fears of being fundamentally defective, and the closest thing their world view has to being coherent is that everything they believe in and espouse is an overreaction against that fear of inferiority.

          They fear they may be a weakling beta or omega based on a lot of things they’ve done in the past? Well dammit now they’re going to be alpha and prove beta isn’t their true identity and accuse everyone ELSE of being the beta or omega that they’re not!

          They fear that women won’t approve of them no matter how much they pussy-beg? Well dammit now they’re going to master pussy-begging and become the best pussy-beggars ever and prove that women do approve of them, or at least the women who don’t are defective and accuse everyone ELSE of not getting the proper female approval that they get!

          They fear they may not be special and part of the elite class they felt they were going to join just by going to college, because their lives have turned out so mediocre? Well dammit now they’re going to prove that they’re special after all and it’s all the liberals, natural alphas, and feminists in academia and the government that thwarted them and accuse everyone ELSE of only succeeding because of being lapdogs of the elite, who they they gamers refuse to kowtow to! It’s not their fault their failures, it’s the powers that be. They’re special and made for greatness but the powers that be felt threatened by them so they conspired against them.

          They fear that being white isn’t the ticket to automatic superiority they thought it would be or that maybe they aren’t as smart as their parents told them growing up, since their lives have turned out so mediocre? Well dammit now they’re going to prove that being white actually does make someone automatically special by using the kook-science of HBD and they’ll also prove they actually do have high IQ, not by getting an actual IQ test taken of course which would require work and leaving the house but by finding a bunch of studies “proving” that whites tend to have high IQs then inferring their own high IQs from such evidence! And of course accuse everyone ELSE of being low IQ.

          Everything these guys obsess over without fail is an overreaction to a fear of a specific kind of inferiority. That’s why I think the Asperger’s obsession and accusations have to stem from that same fear. It just fits into the pattern to well. They can’t reconcile the idea of being ALPHA with possibly having aspergers, the two concepts are mutually exclusive in their minds, so they must find others to accuse and mock for being aspergers to reassure themselves it doesn’t apply to them, because if it did by their logic that would automatically preclude them from proclaim the proclaimed alpha status.

        • Game often obsesses over how to stand like an alpha, how to time conversations, scripts for what to say, how to manage personal space, read social cues, and how to micromanage every aspect of a conversation and sexual encounter into a rigid, one size fits all flowchart.

          Even back when I was exiting the game community, and even when I was an anti-gamer (ex-gamer) I knew how stupid this shit is. This whole alpha stuff.

          BUT NOW I have even better evidence.

          I spent a year surrounded by and befriending highly sexual men (most with hundreds of partners each). They come in all behaviour types. Some are geeky, and some are eve “extremely beta”.

          One of them is now in business with me – he speaks timidly, has really “bad bl”, he is almost feminine when talking with women, he’s the furthest things from the alpha stereotype gamers buy into.

          You know what however? In the past year I’ve personally witnessed him bang more chicks than ALL THE pua I hung out with for almost a decade (PUAs with famous blogs, methods and some with products).

          Fuck, I even took seminars and had a business partnership with the guru who invented the whole “alpha” thing. I never witnessed him so much as get a kiss.

          You know what my anti-alpha friend has? An expensive car, lots of status in the niche he’s in (he’s the best in the city at what he does, lots of friends and contacts and lots of money, oh and he’s tall and good looking).

          Mostly it’s the status in the niche he’s the best in.

        • One other thing to note wrt the Aspie charge: I recently heard a feminista type proclaiming authoritatively (at least in her deranged mind) that “all unmarried men older than 35 were Aspies”.

          So this is yet another way “Game” is just like feminism. “Game” always seems to be about doing feminism’s dirty work for women. How “alpha”.

          It’s just like how ~50 years ago men had to get married (by age 30) to prove they weren’t gay, hopelessly attached to their mothers, etc. -A putative sin of omission turned into “proof” of someone’s alleged deficiency. Bleh, what a sick racket!

      • Hah, that Dalrock thread is an extravaganza of nutty gamer talk. ONe guy is saying that game is now “finding the alpha male and punching him in the face” while another guy is saying game is “negging you and taking your wife and daughter” because that’s how its done in SOmalia.

    • I actually read that link. Is there nothing the so called manosphere won’t try to falsely take credit for? I love how Bill Price makes it sound like before Roissy, their messiah, showed up, no one had any anti-feminist consciousness. What’s really happening is that men are realizing the facts about feminism and the nature of women after being bombarded by the fallout of female evil not because of anything the so called manosphere did. They have no idea what game is or what the so called manosphere is. Bill Price even acts as if the so called manosphere created Paul Elam, a man who has correctly ditched (almost all of) the so called manosphere. Since the so called manosphere is incapable of doing anything, I’m not surprised they try and take credit for things they had nothing to do with, but the scale they do it at is absurd.

      If the so called manosphere is remembered by the MRM 10 years from now at all, it will be the butt of a joke.

      • Its pretty tough to match the amount of cognitive dissonance that is in that post, claiming Roissy created anti-feminism when there is a link to Warren Farrell’s book on the right column of the same webpage.

        • Its pretty tough to match the amount of cognitive dissonance that is in that post, claiming Roissy created anti-feminism when there is a link to Warren Farrell’s book on the right column of the same webpage.

          *Slaps Forehead Twice*

          Who do you think is going to go nuts next? PMAFT? Hell, is there anyone else left who hasn’t gone nuts yet?

        • I can only name 5 or so Roissysphere blogs anyway, the rest are all dead or bland lifestyle blog garbage nobody really cares about.

          The comment sections tell the story, and other than Dalrock, the amount of comments on the average Roissysphere post is a quarter of what it was a year ago.

        • Actually I shouldn’t have bothered linking that. The guy doesn’t seem to have many readers or commenters. Just seems to be even more evidence that the few gamers left are pandering to a shrinking audience.

        • Hah. Thanks for the link and evaluation of ‘delusional’. I’ll take it.

          I write for myself, with no goals or aspirations of having a ‘large following’. I have regular readers I enjoy interacting with there, on my personal facebook, and twitter. I look at it as a way of starting a conversation and promoting thought, seeing as there are no men’s clubs for that in today’s society.

          I also don’t see any rational reason that the manosphere doesn’t include the MRM or MRA’s though – I would certainly consider them a part of the ‘Sphere. It’s all about bettering men on an individual or societal level. I regularly write about those issues, link to girlwriteswhat, etc. To say nothing of working in a field that actively affects cultural discussions on a community level and doing everything in my power to highlight and bring to the front issues concerning men in today’s feminists society.

          You do….. what? Sit around and hate?

          Feel free to keep doing that. I’ll keep pursuing a satisfying life for myself while bettering the lives of those I can around me.

        • Griz, lifestyle blogs really aren’t the target here. I couldn’t care less what Joe blow wants to write about and link to the roissysphere. It’s game frauds and wn and other people like them that we are trying to rid the mra of. Dannyfrom504 for example is not someone we have any beef with.

        • Oh I see you followed a trackback here.

          The mra is finished with the so called manosphere, it is a useless albatross that has held back and distracted from, real work on mra items. If you look at the above exchanges, you would have seen us discussing what the mra cares about, and none of it is the failed ideology of game, nor any other useless idea like white nationalism or paleoconservatism.

          The so called manosphere is not involved with mra. The so called manosphere has been left behind.

        • Yeah, followed a track back. Saw a few people had hit the site today from here and had been getting a higher amount of inflow from other places like twitter. Was curious and thought I’d check it out – I’ve lurked here a couple times but don’t think I ever commented.

          As for the MRA’s leaving the manosphere behind…. Sure, feel free to think that way. But from my discussions online and offline there are a lot of men that don’t identify as a ‘PUA’ or a ‘gamer’ nor a ‘MRA’ or “MGTOW’. There are a good deal of men that just want a fulfilling life – and having a woman without any of the misandry involved in the day to day bullshit of our society means learning a bit from all of those. Because those aspects are deemed important to many men. As such, most people view the MRA’s as part of the Manosphere. I don’t get why you want to alienate people like myself so badly by being so antagonistic when we have open minds and are pursuing bettering ourselves.

          Right now you guys come off like someone that goes into a gym and only lifts to better a single muscle. Or someone that only reads Russian history but doesn’t want to understand the world that influenced Russia’s choices. You might be great at what you’re doing, but you don’t seem balanced or desirable when you go and hate on other people trying to improve their lives in a way they made a choice to improve. To be fair, I’d say the same of people that specifically only want to learn game – but I see far less time spent hating and far less aversion to turn people away that show they desire to build themselves a balance life.

        • Like I said, I dont care about boring socalled manosphere lifestyle blogs, couldn’t care less. The so called manosphere has as much to do with mra as the 90s militia movement had to do with libertarianism, a totally one sided exchange.

          Militia; “were libertarians”
          Libertarians: “no you aren’t”

          The so called manosphere tries it’s absolute hardest stamping it’s little feet and screaming like a petulant child about being part of the mra.

          It isn’t, the so called manosphere donates no money,no time, risks nothing, then stands on the shoulders of the mra trying to take credit for things it did nothing to create. The mra simply says: stay away from us you make us look bad.

        • ybm – I have no problem with lifestyle blogs either. Not really my cup of tea since most of them just regurgitate what can be found in a GQ magazine, but I don’t hate them either. I just linked to that blog post because it explicitly discussed game and said that anyone who criticizes the Game-cult doesn’t understand game and then went into a lengthy explanation of it. I find it annoying because so many of these manosphere gamers keep accusing their critics of not understanding game like it’s something so hard to figure out. It’s not exactly rocket science.

        • The biggest reason for not bothering with blogs like that one is what is called the Streisand effect. As demonstrated in this thread.

        • I agree on Streisand effect. That’s why I said I regretted linking to him once I realized how few readers he had. I probably got him more hits in one day then he’s ever had.

      • > Is there nothing the so called manosphere won’t try to falsely take credit for?

        No, and this is why no one should try and set them straight with the actual truth. “Game” will just twist things around and say “oh, we already thought of that…”. (Like when people complained it was only about ONS and being a PUA, they promptly invented “LTR/relationship game”.) De-bugging “Game” for them only amounts to helping them spot their marketing weak spots.

        Of course, no man ever had sex with a woman until “Game” came and blessed us all with its presence! lol

        “Game” is stupid. Throw rocks at them!

  7. I wandered from my original thought when I got distracted a couple times in the middle of writing the comment. The main thrust of it is:

    Most people see the MRA as part of the manosphere. Many like it that way because it encompasses a full range to match the desires and goals of our lives. Stop antagonizing us.

      • I understand and agree with the conspiracy theorists and racists. I just don’t get how people learning how to become attractive to a stranger, a girlfriend, or a wife hurts the MRM. The scammers asking for money for products or ‘classes’ yes, but I’m sure I could find scammers in the MRM if I cared enough to try.

        But whatever, I’ll keep doing what I’m doing, improving myself, and spreading men’s issues through the theatre I work on for my career, possibly a position as a professor later in life. If my kind of views and lifestyle aren’t within your bounds of ‘acceptable’ I have no idea how you expect to grow.

        At some point to be successful you’re going to have to deal with an influx of people that find value in your message and look to take it to new places.

        Sounds like a cope out and missed opportunity to me.

        • Lol, and the so called manosphere claims it’s Women who want to be catered too.

          You aren’t the first, and you won’t be the last roissyite to threaten to take your ball and go home, and every time we’ve only replied with a yawn.

          Please do, well try not to cry too hard over one less roissyite to marginalize the mra with his stupidity.

        • Hah. I cater to myself and expect others to come join me ;)

          Way to respond with ad hominems. Rossyite, psh. Not even close to my views or lifestyle, good try though. Maybe next you’ll say I’m uneducated rather than actually responding to any thoughts or ideas I express.

          While you accuse me of wanting things that are important to my lifestyle addressed (even ones that you apparently desire), you first mock me and then hypocritically want society to cater to you by changing laws that matter to your own goals and lifestyle.

        • If it doesn’t apply to you, then you don’t need to worry about it. If you arent a roissyite manosphere gamer, you shouldn’t be defensive over our criticism of them.

          If you go back and look at my reply when grizzly posted your link, I in fact said you probably aren’t what we are talking about. Maybe I was right, maybe not. If I am, then you are merely playing devils advocate, and you really are just wasting your own time since I’m grading while I am on here, it makes for a decent distraction from the 200 times I have to stare at the same calculation.

          If I’m wrong, then you are simply a liar. I’d prefer the first option quite frankly.

        • If it doesn’t apply to you, then you don’t need to worry about it. If you arent a roissyite manosphere gamer, you shouldn’t be defensive over our criticism of them.

          That’s what would happen if he wasn’t a Roissyite gamer, but we know he is. Remember that the neckbeard idiot who recently deleted his blog, tried to pull the same thing where he said he wasn’t a Roissyite gamer, but got really defensive about our criticism of them. We have seen it before. We will see it again. There is nothing new with the Roissyite gamers.

        • I just don’t get how people learning how to become attractive to a stranger, a girlfriend, or a wife hurts the MRM.

          No one in the so called manosphere is actually learning how to be attractive to anyone.

        • Look, the advice I got in the manosphere has helped me with women, my career, my health, and my happiness. The advice I give to friends/family and the work I’ll be doing with theatre will further the causes of men by working against misandry that I’ve learned about from the manosphere from GirlWritesWhat, A voice for Men, and other sites.

          Despite me being someone who’s vocal about the same issues you care about and going into a career where I can affect communities to begin with, and young men if I go into teaching, you continue to antagonize and alienate me purposefully.

          Real productive. I’m sure you forward your causes very successfully with member drives like this.

        • Yes I remember that neck beard guy. I hope he’s doing ok, he sounded pretty deep in depression right before he shut his blog down.

      • I just don’t get how people learning how to become attractive to a stranger, a girlfriend, or a wife hurts the MRM

        Because the whole concept is fraudulent as demonstrated by science. I’ve argued and proven this over in length, I won’t have time to argue with you now (I have a life, so no time). But basically, you can become more attractive IN GENERAL by

        -> Adding muscle, removing fat
        -> Getting plastic surgery
        -> Getting status in a given circle/community
        -> Making lots of friends and raising your social status
        -> Money
        -> Money
        -> Money
        -> Fame

        Becoming more attractive to one specific chick doesn’t work since it involves

        -> Personal compatibility (you could try to fake it, but you don’t read thoughts, so you don’t even know what to fake)

        -> Being her type (genetic matching displayed through facial shape, skin type, body ratios, unique smell signature of your individual body etc)

        You CAN become a more attractive PERSON (scientifically validated to making a significant difference, go lose 50 pounds and tell me how many more dates you get, same with getting an expensive car).

        You can NOT however merely speak or stand or ask for the date in a “different way” and suddenly get drastically different results. You will still get roughly the same amount of YES-es per 100 chicks. No game believer has EVER shown to get more YES-es per 100 chicks ASKED than a control subject (the control would be average beta-guy game by your terminology).

        YOU CAN LEARN how to get laid more often, but that doesn’t have anything to do with “creating attraction through walking, talking and acting differently” (the fradulent concept that all game is based on).

        So I said that it is possible to learn how to get laid more, right? What is it that you “learn” when you learn how to get laid more? Oh, just how to

        a) meet more hot women
        b) ask for sex more often

        As for improving your ratio? (how to get more yes-es per 100 attempts)? That’s simple too… It boils down to

        x) identifying which chicks are likely to say yes to you
        y) asking in a way that doesn’t scare women away.

        That’s pretty much it.

        For example I’ve quadrupled the amount of lays I get during this past year. All it involved was simply building a life where I meet and am friends/acquintances with more super-hot women than you could ever even “open” doing cold-approaching. I literally am friends with hundreds of hot women (models, tv personalities, etc etc)… But that all falls under how to be rich and influental and well-connected and “how to network and build social status”, not “game”. Though I’m sure a game guru is about to claim to have invented networking skills any day now (I’m sure Dale Carnegie stole his ideas from a game blogger).

        As for b, it requires either balls or social intelligence. You could either ask every woman if she’s down to fuck outright (experiencing a ton of rejection) or you could learn how to test and tell which chicks are likely to say yes, and only ask the hottest leads to come over to your place (pretty much what I do).

        That’s it. A PUAtard might chime in and go “Oh oh, PUA teaches us about IOIs too”, and “this PUA once talked about how to network!” or “A guru once told me to join the gym” – > But that’s not the point. Game is NOT defined by what it shares with other disciplines, what defines game is its UNIQUE claims. Yes, one of the 52,456 PUA methods might ALSO teach you to for example make lots of female friends – but that’s not game, that’s common sense. The game part is where he the guru claims that by standing differently or constructing sentences differently or communicating differently you will cause the woman to desire your cock more than otherwise. THIS is the fraudulent part. Get it?

        The UNIQUE claim of game is that you can “create attraction” by merely displaying or acting out certain traits (not possessing them, merely acting them out).

  8. I didn’t say anything other than he’s relevant nor did I make one comment on what my opinions of him are. In the same way, I could also say that Lenin is relevant to the history of Russia and defend that claim, but it doesn’t mean I approve of the bastard.

    The main thrust of that post was that I was defending the idea that the manosphere isn’t dead; which happens to include the MRM and MRA’s.

    • Real MRAs want nothing to do with the manosphere. That’s why so many of them from Paul Elam to PMAFT (who is a gamer, albeit a non-Roissyite gamer) have said that they want nothing to do with the so called manosphere.

      • well then I’m sorry to say they have a long ways to go on ‘having nothing to do with the manosphere”. Most of the people I speak to about it equate the whole thing together as areas of the internet that men speak like men on issues men care about. .

    • The whole reason I discovered you and your blog is that you left a comment over at Aaron Sleazy’s blog defending the manosphere and pointing to great voices in it like Jack Donovan and Bill Powell. Jack Donovan is a homophobic (even though he’s gay himself) white nationalist sympathizer and Bill Powell’s blog when I searched it out turned out to be full of links to racist sites and implied white nationalism.

      It’s like forweg said, if you claim to be against racism and conspiracies, you’re either lying or you’re just really ignorant about the character of the people you’re endorsing. You come off pretty earnest so I suspect it’s the latter. But even if you’re endorsement of Roissy is debatable, you still in no uncertain terms endorsed Donovan and Powell, plus you like to trot out the whole “anti-gamers just don’t understand what game means” defense. So assuming you to be part of the Racism-Game cult was a natural reaction.

    • Since your post attacked my “RIP Manosphere” post, there are a couple of points I need to address from your post:

      “The strawmen here are numerous. If you try and whittle down Heartiste, or anyone’s writing, to a single sentence…. Yes it will sound inane.”

      You are taking the argument that the philosophy and life approach of Heartiste is not fully formed and always evolving. I’d argue that’s not true (more on that below), but let’s assume that it is for a second. If it’s true that Heartiste and the manosphere has no full definition of game, then that’s a convenient way to label all arguments against the manosphere as “strawman” arguments. The strawman defense is something I’m seeing all over the manosphere these days, and I can’t help but suspect that the strawman defense is just a copout for manosphere dudes to avoid the flawed assumptions behind their central tenants.

      The problem with this, however, is that my argument is not a strawman. Read what I wrote. I didn’t say that Roosh and Roissy argue that the only way to get laid is acting like a fratboy meathead type, I said it’s the only way they endorse. A clear difference. Here is your take on the subject:

      “Rarely do they even admit that a ‘thug mentality’ can go anywhere with women, that it usually is better to avoid that because it isn’t congruent with most men’s behavior.”

      First of all, please understand that I don’t mean actual criminal thug, that’s why I put the “frat boy” qualifier in front. Two different types of people. Second, even if we are talking about actual thugs, one of the most tiresome tropes of the Roissysphere is the example of a guy on death row who gets tons of love letters, so you are completely wrong in stating that Roissy believes a thug mentality won’t get anywhere. Second, you are correct that it is better to avoid acting like a uber-alpha because it’s incongruent to most men’s behavior. The problem is that Roosh and Roissy express nothing but DISDAIN for these incongruent men. Roissy acknowledges that you can get laid by not acting alpha in the evolutionary sense, but he harbors pure rage at these types of people: “herbs,” “SWPLs,” hipsters. He feels they are part of the urban progressive multicultural set, and they are destroying America. Here is what I wrote on Sleazy’s blog:

      “Roissy also employs a clever rhetorical trick wherein he acknowledges that men can get laid through a different lifestyle (musician/artist/book clubs/volunteering etc.), but then he turns around and basically calls these type of guys “fags” who are bringing down america. He dangles the carrot in front of you, then calls you a pussy from trying to eat it. This way, he ensures that his followers only try HIS way of getting laid. Which naturally lead to the manosphere meet-up disaster.”

      Roosh is a little more complicated, but it’s clear that he believes in the “hard man” persona above all else. Both he and his forum members post the exact same meathead lifestyle shit on their blogs: gym gym gym paleo, with a token post thrown toward “travel” that is nothing than a better surface level look at a culture. In fact, the repetition is so pervasive that one manosphere blog – Danger and Play- actually complained at the lack of cultural knowledge and limited meathead lifestyle being promoted by everyone. Furthermore, you have this post from Roosh defining a real man by two criteria, getting laid and fighting:

      http://www.rooshv.com/are-you-a-real-man

      Notice that rhetorical trick again. If you fulfill the first criteria, getting laid, it still doesn’t mean shit if you can’t kick people’s asses. Roosh goes as far to say that if you aren’t buff, you deserve to die.

      The evidence that Roissy and Roosh favor the aggressive bro/meathead lifestyle over everything else is overwhelming. It doesn’t matter if it’s incongruent with how they themselves act, it’s what they promote in their writings. I personally don’t give a shit what they do in their actual lives.

      And btw, it’s generally writing 101 to be able to sum up a philosophy in one or two sentences, so if you can’t do that with Heartiste, then yes, it’s incoherent.

      • And then, the sprinkles on the shit-sundae, they turn around and say that this is a great revelation and market it as product, both as a real product and an “Idea” they call the ‘red pill’ as if they were promoting an alternative lifestyle.

        Nothing is more quintessentially mainstream in America than the sex-obsessed drunken bro high-fiving his bros in a short-sleeze Polo shirt after a gravity bong acting like a belligerent jackass in a cookie-cutter ultra-bar.

        Some “red pill” lifestyle.

        I stand by my criticism of Roosh, because I’m man enough to admit I wasted money on his stupid “Bang” book back a long time ago when I believed in this shit. Unlike the majority of the goofs like me who were duped, I was enough of a man to stick around and serve as a warning to others: I never had a problem picking up women to begin with, ALL men play the numbers game.

  9. “Forney is certainly obsessive, and definitely mentally ill, but I don’t know if he has Asperger’s. He sure the hell is nothing like me.”

    he’s a serious weirdo….

    Futrelle likes him because he made fun of Paul Elam….

    He seems to espouse the White Nationalist lite ™ attitude of so many in the sphere…

    He’s morbidly obese yet makes fun of fat women…

    He is probably a follower of the McDonalds paleo diet…

  10. Leap of Beta,

    why are you defending those guys….

    You said you like “theatre”-don’t you know they’d judge you as being a “fag” even if you’ve never been with a guy?

    Also, dude, from your pic, they’d call you a SWPL sissy…

    anyways, hang out with a bunch of rascists for their “self-improvement” if you want-just don’t try to sell the rest of us snake oil…

  11. anyways, Rooshie poshie is comedy at this point…

    He makes fun of Indian dudes on his forum and pretends to be a “white guy with a tan” so trashy European women and white nationalists will like him. Doesn’t seem very “alpha” to me. Also some of his stories were so sad it was funny. He’s experiencing “technical” problems.

    I bet Advocatus Diaboli gets better lays with his Canadian prostitutes…

  12. “The reality of the situation is that men have to deal with rejection way more than women do. No matter how the definition of “rejection” is changed, it still ends up being true.”

    Hey, Omega Revolting Virgin,

    If you don’t want to be rejected, why don’t you put up an ad on a dating site stating that you are looking for gay men who want to fuck you up the butt? You will be swamped with mails.

  13. Fatuous Mr. Manboobz is intentionally misrepresenting Typhone Blue

    then he says this:

    PROTIP: You’re not going to convince anyone you’re a great ally of trans* people if you refer to them as “it.”

    The lies this “man” tells is astounding…

  14. It’s still beneficial to write about stuff on castrated man project because the castrated men project pings back, meaning that theres a link on their site pointing to this post. Which is actually good for you.

  15. Pingback: Defined By What Makes It Unique | The Black Pill

  16. A number of years back,, I was semi-professionally involved in the alternative rock club scene. A young female friend who wanted to meet guys asked if she could tag along. It was no big deal, so I said “sure.” Now, this young woman was not overly attractive, but she was fairly decent as a human being (having been raised in China, though she was from England originally).

    Needless to say, within an hour she had guys clustering around her. Miss popularity. Well, good for her, I suppose. She ended up dating guys she met that way, and eventually moved in with one. A lot of her “technique” was simply being pleasant. And her body language seemed “open.”

    Needless to say, there is little in the way your average guy can replicate this. My experience in the club scene is women will approach you, it is only because you either have high status markers (like being involved in doing videos), or come off as totally arrogant. You also have to be alert because there are women who are over the deep end, who may be living in their cars or whatever and are looking to find a guy who will put them up in their place.

    The point is, your average female can have access to men IF she makes an effort. Your average guy can not have that same level of access to females. It’s a real disparity. More deeply, a woman can be “nice” and expect guys to respond. But a NiceGuy(tm) is going to be toast.

    • The point is, your average female can have access to men IF she makes an effort.

      And the entirety of that effort is simply being pleasant and approachable.

      What does a woman need to do to get a string of suitors?

      Just don’t look like you’re going to bite a man’s head off if he asks you out. THAT’S IT! That’s fucking all a vagina-owner needs to do get a love life, companionship, sex, relationships etc etc…

      • What does a woman need to do to get a string of suitors?

        What does a man need to do in order to get an EQUIVALENT level of suitors? Become a minor rockstar, become the highest-ranking (or second highest ranking) male in a niche or a community or sub-culture, or become extremely good at skill and known for it (i.e. become one of the top 1% of men).

  17. What does a woman need to do to get a string of suitors?

    Just don’t look like you’re going to bite a man’s head off if he asks you out.

    The irony is, most AW can not even manage this much.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s