78 comments on “It’s Not Lack Of “Game”, It’s The Experience Gap

  1. Bullshit, game does exist.

    As a theory, it”s a set of attitudes and behaviours that women find attractive. As practice, it’s the exercise of going out, meeting women, and becoming comfortable in their presence, comfortable enough to get laid.

    What game isn’t is a miracle cure – it takes time and effort and a willingness to learn from failure. It’s true that a lot of the “PUAs” are snake oil salesmen, promising impossible results overnight, but there is no reason why a man cannot get laid if he persists. Getting shot down? Lower your expectations, go for a less hot woman, recalibrate and see where that gets you. If you’re a man and a 4 or a 5, it’s going to take a lot of work to get a 6 or a 7, and you will probably never scale the heights to have sex with a genuine 10/10.

    I was utterly useless with women throughout school and most of my time at university. It was only in my final year, when I started reading game material and wised up that I saw any success. Even then, it took me ages before I saw any success, and went home many nights feeling shit about myself. Often I thought that I would never see improvement, but I did, and what’s more I found my niche, going up to women on the street and getting dates (I never did get good at meeting women in clubs.)

    If 90% of men cannot learn game, it is because they are too lazy, obstinate and conservative in their habits to actually change their lives.

    • I was utterly useless with women throughout school and most of my time at university. It was only in my final year, when I started reading game material and wised up that I saw any success. Even then, it took me ages before I saw any success, and went home many nights feeling shit about myself. Often I thought that I would never see improvement, but I did, and what’s more I found my niche, going up to women on the street and getting dates (I never did get good at meeting women in clubs.)

      Is there a scientific study on Game? I know there are anecdotes plenty, and I know anecdotes are no substitute at all for a scientific study with test and control groups.

    • they don’t need to change their lives. adjusting to a sick society is the last thing we need these fine lads to do. fellas, you are going to be the late bloomers. all the puas are going to top out and in your 30’s you will begin to come into your own. the chicks who laughed at you will beg you to take them fro mtheir “alpha” who know has a gut and a mullet. an article that sums up this phenomenon succinctly is called “hitting the wall” by rex patriarch. look it up.

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  3. I said most men find game impossible to implement, not that game doesn’t exist. “X doesn’t work for most, therefore X doesn’t exist” is not a cogent logical statement. This is demonstrated handily by Talleyrand with his substitution of X with Karate, rendering the premise true but the conclusion false.

    Of course, non of this logic will get me laid…

      • Game requires a certain internal frame. It’s a frame that says “I will never apologize or feel embarrassed for that which I desire, for I am a man”. Most men now lack this frame due to a number of factors discussed widely in the man-o-sphere.

        These weak framed men lack the sheer force of personality to walk up to a girl, let alone say and do the bold things preached by game. For the brave betas that try, their attempts both feel and are perceived as ingenuine. Women see the lack of congruence and are put off.

        These early failures deter most men from continuing. This is no different than any other skill, Poker being an excellent example…

        http://seasonsoftumultanddiscord.wordpress.com/2010/07/22/the-game-of-poker/

    • “X doesn’t work for most, therefore X doesn’t exist” is not a cogent logical statement.

      I have not made this statement. Game doesn’t exist because it lacks internal consistency, make claims that are false or false in most cases, and pedestalizes women.

      The disagreement about what percentage of men can use game is one example of the lack of internal consistency. It’s worse when individual gamers aren’t even consistent on this point. Take Obsidian who went from saying 10% of men to saying all men could use game just because he wanted to attack the men of The Spearhead by making up shit like they don’t take showers.

  4. P.S.

    I never said it’s impossible. That would be as ridiculous as saying game doesn’t exist. Just because most men find it impossible to implement doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

  5. I don’t think “game” is the issue as much as overcoming the evolutionarily wired fear of approaching women that most young men have (roissy has discussed this in his blog extensively). If you can overcome that fear, learn to live with rejection (up to a certain age–if you haven’t gotten anywhere by 35-40, I think it’s time to get realistic and as difficult as that might be, give up and move on with your life), and maximize your opportunities to meet women, you can shift the odds a little more in your favor.

    It seems unfair that pussy holds all the cards. Girls can get laid anytime, anywhere, and these days they do with a handful of alpha males (what is commonly referred to among these blogs as “riding the carousel of cock”. The difference is that once there was societal pressure against such activity. Today, not only is it celebrated, but so is single motherhood by choice.

    As I’ve said before, these are all products of pernicious cultural norms, but they cannot last.

    • Not having a fear of approaching women doesn’t matter if you get rejected all the time.

      up to a certain age–if you haven’t gotten anywhere by 35-40, I think it’s time to get realistic and as difficult as that might be, give up and move on with your life

      I’m not 35 yet but I’m pretty close. Of course I going ghost at this point more or less so I have come to the conclusion that they only way I could get anything from a woman is by paying for it. Even if an opportunity with a woman presented itself I’m sure it would be such a shit sandwich that I would not bother. The game boys may want to eat shit sandwiches and pretend it’s a steak sandwich. I do not. A shit sandwich is still a shit sandwich no matter what you call it.

      • What exactly do you mean by a shit sandwich? I’m assuming you mean a girl that you don’t find very desirable, but do you mean a girl that is physically unattractive or a girl who is a bitch and treats you badly? How can you give up completely on women because nothing has ever worked for you, but then think you’re above the ones who might be interested? I really want to know your reasoning.

      • What exactly do you mean by a shit sandwich? I’m assuming you mean a girl that you don’t find very desirable, but do you mean a girl that is physically unattractive or a girl who is a bitch and treats you badly? How can you give up completely on women because nothing has ever worked for you, but then think you’re above the ones who might be interested? I really want to know your reasoning.

        By shit sandwich I mean a used up women with a stretched out pussy with four rugrats by another man. I’m talking about women that go after guys like me when they need someone to clean up their mess and pay the debts. The game boys say that because she has pussy you should eat the shit sandwich. I disagree. There are lots of things worse than being alone.

        This is all theoretical since I haven’t had such a woman be interested in me. Really such a woman is not truly interested in me. She’s interested in my wallet which brings up other problems such as that she will probably divorce me after she’s gotten what she needs from me or try and use the fact that we were in a relationship to get child support out of me despite having no relation to her kids. Then I will be alone regardless but it will be worse since she will have ruined my life or worse.

        Like I said it’s theoretical since there haven’t been any women interested in me ever. I don’t see that changing so why do work for no benefit espeically when the results will either be zero or negative.

      • Again, even if you don’t fear the approach but still wind up with the same outcome, only you can still make the decision as to how long you want to do this.

        If you keep thinking that the next one will be different, and it doesn’t bother you if she isn’t, then by all means keep trying–and I don’t say that with sarcasm.

        I myself gave up at 37, but got lucky at 45. Married now 13 years, but the outcome wasn’t guaranteed.

        All the best to you in making the decision that’s right for you without regret.

      • From a girl’s perspective, it seems that real alphas, not betas who learn game, only go after a certain subset of girls when it comes to picking up.

  6. “As I’ve said before, these are all products of pernicious cultural norms, but they cannot last.”

    Actually it can and it will last. As long as the beta boy worker drones keep supporting the system with their tax dollars (and their work effort) the system will keep plundering on. And just because you think men are waking up to all of this because you read these blogs and it seems people are becoming more aware of these things doesn’t mean that its going to happen. The vast majority, the millions of ordinary men, aren’t aware of these things and aren’t reading about them. The only reasonable thing to do, for yourself, is to decide how you want to react to this system. Do not for a moment thing that you can sit and wait for there to be a revolution that will fix things. Because there won’t be one.

  7. No they won’t last because the women that embrace them have no kids, while more patriarchal forms of family life have many. It’s a social darwinistic solution.

  8. Also OVR, Obsidian is not a master of game as far as I’m aware, nor an authority on the subject beyond the fact he writes an intelligent blog which deals with game and other subjects. He doesn’t teach it professionally for one. I’ve never been on the PUA boot camps but I hear they have good results.

    • Who is a master of “game”? There’s no certification authority for this. He claims to be enough of an authority. What’s so intelligent about his blog? When he makes up crap about the men of The Spearhead not taking showers? His racist crap?

      • Mystery for one. I recommend you read Mystery Method, the ‘original’ text; it might demystify game for you a bit, as it’s more or less pure theory, so you can approach it from an academic perspective rather than as someone wanting to learn who just wants tips and practical advice.

        As I said before, game is just a set of behaviours and attitudes. What possible barrier could there be, if you were dedicated enough, to mimic and ultimately adopt these behaviours? Possibly intelligence, but you seem fairly smart.

      • Jake does this mean we can safely say that guys like Obsidian and Dave from Hawaii are just internet tough guys who are all talk, no action, prone to exaggeration and know little about game? Let’s be honest these guys haven’t really had their circle jerk challenged.

      • No, I’m certain Obsidian et al are genuine in their success with women.

        But look at it this way, I write a blog which is probably 80% about game, but I couldn’t claim to be a master of it. I’m quite successful with women having practised game, but I’m not in a position to teach it.

        I’m just saying that if Obsidian says something about game, it’s not necessarily the gospel truth. There is no “council of elders” for the community, just a bunch of guys testing stuff out. There is no one mouth who can say what game is or is not.

      • Jake if no one can say what game is or is not then how can anyone know what game is? That convinces me that I’m right that game does not exist.

        How can you be so sure guys like Obsidian and Dave from Hawaii aren’t exaggerating something? If you can’t define what’s game and what’s not then you can’t validate someone’s claims. They are acting very suspiciously. Obsidian couldn’t handle a few people questioning him and responded with a meltdown where he accused the men of The Spearhead of hating women, not taking showers, and being “whitebreads” who have had the world handed to them on a platter. Dave is too busy checking under his bed for the Federal Reserve to do anything with game. Dave has never explained how he actually used game. We’re just supposed to take it on faith like his conspiracy crap.

        I’m interested in results not a dick measuring contest which game seems to be. If I wanted to win this dick measuring contest all I would have to do is make up a persona that was getting laid and said the right codewords of game. All of you would fall for it.

        Gamers all clearly pedestalize women. Gamers will claim that game somehow prevents this but it’s obvious that isn’t so. The only exception to this is PMAFT who seems to be doing something other than game.

  9. From a girl’s perspective, it seems that real alphas, not betas who learn game, only go after a certain subset of girls when it comes to picking up.

    Just as I suspected.

  10. If you’re a man and a 4 or a 5, it’s going to take a lot of work to get a 6 or a 7, and you will probably never scale the heights to have sex with a genuine 10/10.

    There is some truth to this.

    A morbidly obese man has no credibility complaining that women are too fat.

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  12. “Is there a scientific study on Game?”
    What exactly do you suppose a scientific study on game would look like? Ask a 100 guys to try to get laid before & after reading the Mystery Method?
    Flirting is NOT a science, and any material on ‘how to flirt better’ is still NOT science.
    WAKE UP.
    It’s a typically butthurt reaction to demand “scientific proof” from people who are talking about personal experiences and are trying to HELP you with it.
    TONS of guys used different game materials. Some succeeded, some didn’t.
    (It certainly helped me, thank you.)
    What you need is reading more than one or two blogs or ebooks on the subject and USE YOUR OWN BRAINS to figure out what’s what.
    Game works, there is no question about it. You just have to find out which parts work FOR YOU and then you can forget the rest. If you don’t have the patience required, don’t blame ‘game’.

    I guarantee you that if a 100 guys read what’s on the other side of these links, 50 of them will have a better lovelife, and 50 of them will complain that this stuff ain’t worth sh*t. But if you have a higher IQ than a peeled potato you can realize that the first group of guys are proof enough that game works.
    http://www.rooshv.com/18-reasons-why-you-dont-get-laid
    http://www.datingadvicesecrets.com/men/why-nice-guys-finish-last/

    • Game works, there is no question about it

      And how would you prove that game works?

      It’s a typically butthurt reaction to demand “scientific proof” from people who are talking about personal experiences and are trying to HELP you with it.

      You can not get anywhere in life by simply accepting what you hear from other people.

      I have not taken a position on whether or not game works; I am presently agnostic on the issue. Where is the data on the success of game? What are the sexual statistics of game practitioners as compared to non-game practitioners? What are the sexual statistics of people pre-game and those same people post-game?

    • For what it’s worth to everyone debating whether Game works or even exists, in my opinion it’s the attitude that works. Game gives some guys that attitude, but there are probably a million other ways to get it. I think women are more perceptive then you probably realize. It’s pretty easy to tell who is truly confident and just messing with you to be funny and who is trying really hard to follow Game and make you question yourself because he thinks you’ll want to prove your attractiveness. Even though both of them might be good guys, obviously the first guy is more attractive. So my guess is that if Game gives you that confidence while still allowing you to make a judgement on when it’s gone too far, then it works. If Game makes you seem like you’re just going by the book, it probably doesn’t.

  13. “And how would you prove that game works?”
    For myself I don’t need “proof” because
    1. I understand the principles behind it and they are logical and coherent
    2. I tried it and it worked
    After this I don’t feel the need to persuade sceptics.
    At the same time it’s like and unlike religious faith. On the one hand nobody can present you scientific facts about it, you have to try it for yourself to see if it works for you. On the other hand blind faith is not required; game is something you CAN try and the results are plain to see.

    “You can not get anywhere in life by simply accepting what you hear from other people.”
    That’s right. What I was trying to say is not that anyone should just blindly follow what others say on the net – that would be foolish. What I meant was that there are hordes of men out there who talk about game and how it changed their lives, and they have nothing to gain by lying. By saying game does not work or even doesn’t exist you indirectly accuse me of lying.
    Why would I lie? Why would Athol Kay or Hawaiian Libertarian lie? They are good guys who want to help others and THEY DO. They already helped lots of guys. And the sceptics have two choices: either stay ignorant or accept that their previous judgements were incorrect, most probably because they were based on insufficient or false information.

    “Where is the data on the success of game? What are the sexual statistics of game practitioners as compared to non-game practitioners?”
    There is no data on flirting. I tried to make this point in my previous comment. It would be so complicated to gather _objective_ data from people on different levels and with different types of ‘game’ that it’s practically impossible.
    Thus, you have to look into it and figure it out for yourself. If you wait for scientific data you might as well forget about the whole thing.

    • By saying game does not work or even doesn’t exist you indirectly accuse me of lying.

      I never made such a claim. All I asked is for data.

      Why would Athol Kay or Hawaiian Libertarian lie?

      They could be true believers, not liars.

    • I’m not asking for a scientific study. I’m asking for a lot less bullshit especially obvious bullshit. Is it so hard to define what game is and isn’t? If it exists this would be easy but as Jake admitted it can’t be done.

      Why would these people lie? They don’t have to outright lie to exaggerate. Michael also brings up a good possibility that they are true believers. I think paranoia is a reason. AtholKay believes that MRAs are out to destroy marriages. Dave thinks the Federal Reserve is out to get him.

      I have been impressed lately by how many men on the Spearhead are willing to call out bullshit. It’s no surprise that the two latest examples were Obsidian and Dave. Their responses were to accuse the men of the Spearhead of not taking showers and censorship respectively. These are the actions of bullshiters.

      Game is supposed to exist in the real world yet every gamer’s argument is the same, “trust me”. If there weren’t so many bullshiters in game you wouldn’t have to say that. I am certain I have spent more time than anyone trying to make game work and the only response I get is that I didn’t work hard enough. BULLSHIT

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  15. “They could be true believers, not liars.”
    Game is not a religion with “believers”. You can try it out and the results are tangible. That’s why it has so many followers – not believers.

    “I never made such a claim. All I asked is for data.” + “I’m not asking for a scientific study.”
    This is what you get when you try to answer many comments at once 🙂

    “Is it so hard to define what game is and isn’t?”
    Actually it’s not hard to define. “Game” is a study on what attracts women (sexually), period.
    The problem is that there are so many people (with a wide range of intellect and talents and motivations) writing about this stuff that it’s unavoidable that there are hundreds of pages of bullshit written every day on the topic.

    Now, please read carefully because I try to say something “important” here.
    If you’re interested in attracting women, what you have to do is use your own brains and common sense to find the _right_ material which tells you about WHY the “tricks” of the kinds of Mystery work. Game is half “tricks”, half theories, and it’s the theories part that is way more important.
    For a perfect example, look into hypergamy. Read posts about it; Hawaiian Libertarian has some nice ones. If you understand what it is and how it works, you take a huge step towards understanding – and attracting – women.
    http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com/2009/10/its-all-about-hypergamy.html
    Also a good example – albeit a rather different one – is “shit tests”. You don’t have to read through horrendous PUA material to understand what they are, how they work and how to prevail against them.
    http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/fswiki.cgi?Shit_Tests

    You have to find the gold nuggets in this wide river of PUA material but it’s well worth it. You could find all these in more scientific works. If you go into a library and start reading psychology and sociology you’ll find almost all the important ideas of game there too, but it will take much more time and effort than browsing a few webpages and blogs about game.

    • My own brains and common sense especially after trying game say that it doesn’t exist.

      If it’s this hard to get at the 0.1% facts about game (assuming it exists) amongst the 99.9% bullshit you guys have a problem you should be dealing with.

      I have dealt with supposed “shit tests” in the way that page describes. I have not “won” as a result. The women only tried to fight me harder. And don’t forget all the men who are sitting in jail, have had their lives destroyed, or dead right now because they failed what you gamers call a “shit test”. They didn’t deserve that.

  16. “AtholKay believes that MRAs are out to destroy marriages.”
    I don’t know about that, I’m yet to find Athol’s post on MRAs. (What I know is feminists are out to destroy marriages and MRAs are out to warn men of the shitty deal marriage 2.0 is.)

    “Dave thinks the Federal Reserve is out to get him.”
    And you think it’s not. And you base that on… What exactly? You have proof other than “I think so”?
    If you read enough on the FR you most probably will change your beliefs about it.

    “I have been impressed lately by how many men on the Spearhead are willing to call out bullshit. It’s no surprise that the two latest examples were Obsidian and Dave.”
    Don’t mention them in the same sentence please. Obsidian is a rather… “simple” black fellow who sometimes has good insights on women but is in the meantime a (reverse) racist asshole. Dave is one of the finest in the manosphere. That you don’t like his thoughts about economics does not blur the fact that his articles on women, marriage, game, culture and even food are some of the best available. He is something like a “hero” to me along with Rob Fedrz and Angry Harry.

    “Their responses were to accuse the men of the Spearhead of not taking showers and censorship respectively. These are the actions of bullshiters.”
    To be honest I seldom read the comments so I don’t know what you’re referring to here. But if you mean what I think you mean than yeah, many commenters at the spearhead are idiots who doesn’t understand the very basic concept of the spearhead being a magazine on *many* topics, and if you’re not interested in one of those topics you have the freedom to NOT CLICK ON IT for Christ’s sake. As I understand things the spearhead is basically Welmer’s creation and if he says Dave is fine it’s his call. The readers may like it or not, that’s *their* call.
    I think the “proper” attitude is “I’m not interested in this so I won’t read it” and *NOT* “I’m not interested in this so you should get the f*ck outta here”.

    “Game is supposed to exist in the real world yet every gamer’s argument is the same, “trust me”.”
    F*ck me, I never said that. I always say try it and trust your results. The only thing I add is that try it “the smart way”.

    “I am certain I have spent more time than anyone trying to make game work and the only response I get is that I didn’t work hard enough. BULLSHIT”
    Look. I understand and respect that you tried it and you say it didn’t work out for you. But it spectacularly worked for many of us. I’m not trying to “blame” you for “doing it wrong” ’cause we all know it’s not that easy and anyone can f*ck it up. What I think is that you rushed a bit and tried to use elements of it without understanding the full context and/or some very important nuances.
    I wouldn’t advise you (that is if you’d want my advice 🙂 to “work harder” because it ruins everything. I’d say what you need to do is relax. Maybe read some quality PUA material just “for the fun of it”, or to be more precise for the intellectual joy of recognising new truths about subjects that interest you. Then relax some more 🙂
    No offense, but you seem to be stuck in some thought patterns that will get you nowhere.

    • I don’t know about that, I’m yet to find Athol’s post on MRAs.

      Here’s where Athol Kay says that MRAs are out to destroy marriages. I agree with Hollenhund that it has to be the dumbest most paranoid comment I’ve read on anywhere on the internet in a long time.

      And you think it’s not. And you base that on… What exactly? You have proof other than “I think so”?

      What’s your basis for the idea that the world isn’t run by Jewish Zionist Satanist Pedophile lizard aliens? Do you have proof other than “I think so”?

      Don’t mention them in the same sentence please.

      They’re both paranoid freaks. The only difference is that Obsidian doesn’t think the Federal Reserve is out to get him. I’m discovering that paranoia seems to be a common affliction among gamers.

      That you don’t like his thoughts about economics

      I don’t like them or dislike them. They are wrong.

      He is something like a “hero” to me along with Rob Fedrz and Angry Harry.

      That convinced me that Dave is full of shit.

      To be honest I seldom read the comments so I don’t know what you’re referring to here.

      Then you don’t know what you are talking about. Besides censorship can only be really imposed by the government so Dave claiming the men of The Spearhead are trying to censor him means that he thinks that commentors there are part of the government in some way.

      I always say try it and trust your results.

      My results say that game doesn’t exist.

      I wouldn’t advise you (that is if you’d want my advice to “work harder” because it ruins everything. I’d say what you need to do is relax. Maybe read some quality PUA material just “for the fun of it”, or to be more precise for the intellectual joy of recognising new truths about subjects that interest you.

      I appreciate being told something else other than work harder by a gamer. It’s refershing at least. PUA/game material is not something I would read for fun. I am rapidly approaching 35 and still the ultimate virgin. Why should I work harder and harder for less and less? What’s the point of working for a shit sandwich?

  17. Just a “side note” on the Federal Reserve:
    It’s a privately owned bank which works for the profit of it’s owners disguised as a federal instituion serving the public. Do I really need to say more?
    Well, consider than that in the middle of the economic crisis, when the banks received the bailout money they did not use it to correct their supposedly f*cked up balances, instead they immediately started buying/acquisitioning smaller independent banks. In plain english it means that the elite bank(er)s used YOUR (the taxpayers’) money in a fraud to buy their rivals.
    If this doesn’t tell you that something’s not right here than nothing will. And it’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s a freakin’ fact you can check any day of the week.

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  19. I think game is a total load of shit. That said I don’t think its hard to get laid like W&N says or that you need tonnes of experience. The reason women don’t understand virgins is because they don’t understand how someone could be so fucked up that it would be difficult for them to get laid. The problem is that women don’t understand the damage that modern schooling, society and feminism have done to men. That said most women are right. Men who cannot get laid have real mental problems. Most of them are severely depressed and have low self-esteem. I know that when I wasn’t getting laid this was exactly how I felt.

    The solution though is not to learn Game. Game takes men that are fucked up and just makes them depressed because Game doesn’t work. The solution is for guys to realize they have mental problems and start trying to resolve them. E.g. If your depressed then do more exercise, do yoga/meditation, engage more socially and read the book “Feeling Good”.

    The vast majority of guys who game approach ridiculous numbers of women (>1000 in 1 year) and rarely get laid. They do better than most guys because they at least approach.

    Getting laid is easy. You just not to learn not to be ashamed of your sexual desires and forthrightly express what you want from a woman and what you like about her. in other words be honest and direct. Its also important not to give a shit about what women think of you. Its easy actually, it just takes a little getting used to. But getting laid will not solve most men’s problems. Because the problems are mental problems. Not getting laid is a symptom not a cause.

  20. “Game is supposed to exist in the real world yet every gamer’s argument is the same, “trust me”. If there weren’t so many bullshiters in game you wouldn’t have to say that. I am certain I have spent more time than anyone trying to make game work and the only response I get is that I didn’t work hard enough. BULLSHIT”

    Game doesn’t work. There are no studies. There is no real way to measure it and there probably never will be. There are probably some effective teachers out there but for the most part game is a load of shit. I am a member of a lair and reading the lair carefully I would estimate that 80% of the guys there are newbies who will maybe last 8 months and then quit. There is a small core of hardcore guys many of which don’t have great results (>3000 approaches and maybe 4-5 lays with different girls). I have never seen someone who was spectacularly successful but there is a tiny minority that is good (>40 girls). Even the hardcore guys get frustrated and depressed. They often lose jobs, friends, family and fail in school after learning the game.

    Depression is endemic. Almost all the guys who have done game get depressed and often severely depressed as a result. This happened to me. It happened to Mystery, Sinn and to almost everybody who tries this.

  21. “The solution though is not to learn Game. […] If your depressed then do more exercise, do yoga/meditation, engage more socially and read the book “Feeling Good”.”
    Well well, what do you know, this is exactly what PUAs say. (the yoga part is for meeting chicks there but whatever)
    Game is a cure for those mental problems you mention.

    “The vast majority of guys who game approach ridiculous numbers of women (>1000 in 1 year) and rarely get laid.”
    Except for LOTS of us who do game but live in an LTR and are not approaching women at all, but still get laid every day.
    I think you’re the kind of person who started reading about game but stopped right at page 1 and since then thinks he knows all about game. There’s a lot more to it than stupid hats and cheesy openers.

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  23. “Game is a cure for those mental problems you mention.”

    Game is a cause of those mental problems. Spend some time in a lair. Read some posts. Read the Game. Its heavily documented. Sinn tried to commit suicide. Mystery is bipolar.

    “I was wrong, you’ve read more than just page 1 but what I don’t get is if you believe game is just a bunch of BS why are you a member of a “lair”?”

    I have not just read more than one page. I have read multiple theories including Mystery, Gunwitch, Vin Di carlo, Tyler Durden, Love Systems. And most importantly I have done approaches and practiced. Not 1000 approaches but more than 100.

    So why do I stay on the forum? I have been trying to stop. But, its addictive. Its a form of mental masturbation. You get to read what some guy did when he approached a girl and give your stupid opinion. And I love giving my stupid opinion as you can see. That said I know that the lair is something I will end up giving up.

    You know what convinced me that game was a load of shit. I saw the keys to the vip episode staring Sphinx and Biscuit. They are love systems instructors and they were both shit. I couldn’t believe it when I saw it. None of their techniques worked. It actually depressed the fuck out of me. I have seen a lot of Keys to the Vip episodes and there have been naturals using no game techniques who were orders of magnitude better than these “instructors”. I realized then that “Game” could never ever make you better than a natural which to me meant that it didn’t really work.

    “Except for LOTS of us who do game but live in an LTR and are not approaching women at all, but still get laid every day.”

    You practice game in a long term relationship, you get laid and you think this is proof game works?! WTF?! You shouldn’t have to do anything to get laid in an LTR. I mean THATS THE FUCKING POINT.

    • “Game is a cause of those mental problems”
      For some, maybe. But let me tell you, I was confused and depressed UNTIL I found game. Nowadays I’m happier than ever.

      “Mystery is bipolar.”
      He always was so he’s not a good example here.

      “But, its addictive. Its a form of mental masturbation.”
      I think the problem is not with game but with addiction. I’m not “addicted” and I know lots of guys who aren’t either. Game helps them and doesn’t ruin their lives. On the other hand if you get addicted to almost anything it will ruin you, and game is no exception. But it STILL doesn’t mean that game doesn’t work or doesn’t exist.

      “I realized then that “Game” could never ever make you better than a natural”
      I don’t want to be better than a natural. I just want to be better than my old self. I was a beta and f*cked up a lot of things but since I learned about game many things have changed and IT IS ENOUGH for me. Most of what I learned and tried did work.

      “You practice game in a long term relationship, you get laid and you think this is proof game works?! WTF?!”
      Yep, I practice LTR game every day. Is there anything wrong with that? This is not my first LTR so I can compare this relationship to the others I had. There’s a difference I can’t even begin to describe.

      “You shouldn’t have to do anything to get laid in an LTR.”
      That’s the theory but not the practice 🙂 I had my share of sexless LTRs, thank you. That made me turn to game in the first place.

  24. “(>3000 approaches and maybe 4-5 lays with different girls)”

    I should clarify this…by 4-5 lays what I really mean is 4-5 sexual relationships which means more than 5 lays. To me though getting 4-5 different girls is unimpressive.

  25. Its interesting to me that on a blog devoted to documenting the struggles and tribulations of omega virgins the most frequent comments are written by well layed alphas.

  26. Pingback: If you can’t get laid, read this – part 2 | Deansdale's Blog

  27. The logistics of fucking arent that hard. You are making this too damn difficult, spend several sessions with a professional, explain to her your situation and you will get more confident with a woman. If you are attracted to a woman and you feel confident, it isnt that hard to fuck like a porn star if you want to.

  28. I’m curious about why people are saying if you haven’t gotten anywhere by 35-40 you should give up. What is significant about that age? Is it just that we’re so likely to be set in our ways by then that we’re not likely to change?

    • I can’t speak for anyone else but here’s what I think. Most important, if you can’t get a woman to take even a second look at you before 35-40 much less get laid, then is it really going to happen later? Highly unlikely to the point of there is no point in wasting anymore time in it. Even if you got lucky then what? All you get to fuck is 50 year old (or older) grandmothers. What’s the point of that? You might say “what about fucking younger women?” If you couldn’t get them when you were closer to them in age you aren’t going to be able to get them when you’re older.

      Why would a woman want you when women have never wanted you before? Because she’s looking for a chump to marry and divorce to steal your assets. Why expose yourself to that danger?

      Outside of hookers I expect to be a virgin the rest of my life.

  29. White and Nerdy when do you plan on paying a visit to the brothel? I’m 22 and have been thinking about this for some time. I was 16 when my friends and I first contemplated going to the local brothel right near our high school, I decided against it because I didn’t want to lose my virginity to a hooker. 6 years later, absolutely nothing has changed except that I’m far less hopeful than I used to be, I guess I will go soon enough though. I don’t have even the slightest expectation of enjoying the experience. How one can enjoy the humiliation of paying a woman who probably hates you and is disgusted by the thought of having sex with you, who has no enthusiasm what so ever, is fucking beyond me.

    I just want to do it in the hopes that it will allow me to stop putting sex and pussy up on a pedestal as if its the holy grail and settle into a comfortable life of celibacy and isolation.

      • hi W&N, I love your blog. You remind me of myself. I am exactly in the same position as you, 35, make lots of money, and girls hate me, no, Despise me! They get great pleasure in putting me down in the most demeaningful ways they can. Like you, I dabbled in game for about 7 years, and got almost no where (banged a few Ug’s out of desperation), even with something like 10000 approaches I never even slept with so much as a 7. Just the thought of even approaching a woman now makes me cringe. In the 7 years of hardcore pickup, the only guys I ever saw who became sucessful were guys who were already natural, but joined after their hot GF dumped them. These guys become wildly sucessful, but for nerdy guys like us game is completely useless. I then moved to Las Vegas just for the hookers. If you want true GFE with a perfect 10 week after week, you have to move here man. It is like being in heaven.

    • Choose carefully. My personal experience is that some hookers really need the money and would prefer other jobs if possible – these quite often dislike men. But there are girls out there who are smart enough to realize this is a gold mine for them – they often enjoy what they do and are genuinely grateful. They tend to be more expensive but not always.
      I slept with a stunning babe once and she seemed more enthusiastic than I did 🙂 I asked her why she had chosen this kind of “job” and she said she liked the variety. Go figure. The experience was life-alteringly fantastic.
      I don’t know where you live and what your possibilities are but you should try to gather information on girls before you give it a go. Browse forums, look around, etc.

  30. I pretty much expect to have a shit time at the brothel Deansdale, but if there are ways I can ensure that I’ll have a better time I’ll do it. I’m not willing to spend a fortune, but if paying a couple hundred bucks more, no problem. I would definitely like to spend time with a hooker who loves to please men and takes pride in what she does. I have absolutely zero idea about how to find that, or even how to find about the different whores. I don’t know about this “girlfriend experience” thing. I certainly want a girl that doesn’t hate men, that’s willing to show an insecure, omega virgin a good time, a strait nonsense fuck will do me fine without all the bells and whistles.

  31. I dont know what you do for a living white and nerdy but if you need a girlfriend that badly go register in an LPN (licensed practical nurse) program somewhere. You will have a chance to meet women and if you arent a dork you should have no problem getting a decent GF.

  32. I wouldn’t visit brothels or common hookers, experiences with these are generally negative – virgins generally report the experience as being no different from masturbating with someone else in the room.

    Far better are high-class hookers (who call themselves ‘escorts’) , these will come to your home or hotel room and make an effort to talk to you, experiences here are generally reported to be much better. Of course, escorts are much more expensive.

    • I agree with everything you said. I know guys who are like me except they went to hookers. It was like what you described and it didn’t change them into something women wanted.

  33. hi white.

    Have you thought about lowering your standards for the time being just to garner some experience? I assume your ‘deflowering’ doesn’t hold the same kind of mysticism as it does for women, so it doesn’t need to be such a special experience. You just need experience.

    Go for girls below your taste (no hippos or slags, but don’t be so picky). Once you have the experience and a little bit of the wind in your sails you will be all right. Hit on everyone.

    I feel for you. I am a woman but was extremely bad with men in my late teens. No men in my life growing up so I still have no idea how to flirt or attract attention (@ least I didn’t go the slut route). Still get nervous when guys chat me up and I’m married!

    • FACEPALM

      Do you think I haven’t lowered my standards? REALLY? I did that a long time ago. It didn’t help.

      I am a woman but was extremely bad with men in my late teens. No men in my life growing up so I still have no idea how to flirt or attract attention (@ least I didn’t go the slut route). Still get nervous when guys chat me up and I’m married!

      You’re married and you’re really comparing your experiences with mine? Seriously?

  34. Game is short hand for a set of behaviors and beliefs that will improve your odds with women. The one time I truly and actually used game, I ended up marrying the girl (and had a child). I failed to use game during the marriage, or to act as a leader/man, etc. and ended up getting divorced (although that was not the only reason). Now I am having to re-learn stuff. Yes approaching is really really hard. I am far from a certain “ideal” male: not tall, dark, and handsome. However, this does not really bother me. On the other hand, everything else about me is outstanding: intelligence, social status, occupation, emotional and social intelligence, etc.

    Just yesterday, I was out with a roommate and met up with her friend, who was cute, but not really my type. I was being somewhat anti-social, and not talkative. I forced myself to be a little more open, talked to this girl, teased her a bit, light kino, and lo and behold she had a positive response, kinoed back. She had a bf, but I didn’t care otherwise. I did get a proper warm hug from her at the end when we left. Of course a hug = nothing, but the point is, if I had been creepy/desperate/try hard, it could have just been a handshake, or a “nice to meet you.” A hug = she is comfortable with you. Thus, even in a shitty frame of mind, I could get positive response from a woman I wasn’t even interested in. All the things I did and said were entirely based on game.

    I think it’s right to be skeptical about game, especially since it’s become so commercialized. But you don’t have to spend 1 cent on the workshops, etc. I never have, and never will. Everything you need to know is out there for free or of nominal cost. But no amount of reading, or even approaching, is going to fix your feelings about yourself. If you think you suck, then you do. Unjustified confidence is more attractive than allegedly “realistic” self appraisals. No one can limit your potential like you can.

    • Everything you need to know is out there for free or of nominal cost. But no amount of reading, or even approaching, is going to fix your feelings about yourself. If you think you suck, then you do.

      I don’t think I suck. Women think I suck.

  35. Game can work, but not for all guys. If you are reasonably intelligent, reasonably fit, and most of all, able to play an unusual but rocking musical instrument: Sax, Trumpet, Violin, mayyyyybeeee Trombone/Clarinet in a rock band, even a very bad one, you can use this to get a girlfriend better than you’d imagine — roughly your own level of attractiveness.

    BUT you need to get over social fears of interaction. For me, it was going from fairly debilitating shyness to teaching HS kids. Brutal but erased all shyness. For others, it could be acting classes, etc. The key is reducing approach anxiety by reducing it in non-sex related contexts.

    And having something going for you that is unusual. Particularly if you want to work day game. Put together a band and play (even badly) in a local coffee shop or what have you. Even out on the beach. Or lakeside. Or what have you.

    Avoid: bars, nightclubs, etc.

    Do not go to hookers etc. Too much risk of disease.

    The good point, the feminizing epidemic among younger guys makes a lot of their age peer women frustrated. You won’t get a virgin. You can get someone akin to your attractiveness with probably 8-9 partners. Just run through as many as possible to be on equal terms. Or just keep running. Women are not owed an commitment. Age up to a point can be (around 10 years) a winning point if you act like a man when others act like boys.

    • What about those of us with no musical talent?

      The good point, the feminizing epidemic among younger guys makes a lot of their age peer women frustrated. You won’t get a virgin. You can get someone akin to your attractiveness with probably 8-9 partners. Just run through as many as possible to be on equal terms. Or just keep running.

      Is this the secret to the success of someone like Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Tech?

      • All modern game is is a means for projecting that you are of a higher status than the girl you’re targeting, coupled with techniques for confusing women enough to make them curious. Everything else is just details, and different stuff works for different guys.

        Musical instruments are great, but for the tone-deaf among us (myself included), there are other things. You have to pick something you are very good at, and emphasize that. Act as a leader.

        Above all, project confidence. If you say the “correct” response to shit tests, but don’t believe what you’re saying, it won’t work (unless you’re a natural liar). You have to believe you are better than the woman you are going after. If you do, she will too.

  36. Im not comparing, I am just saying that I understand that things like this can happen to almost anyone, and that attitude goes a long way, either pro or con.

    Anyway, there is a discussion about you over at Roissy. You should read some of the suggestions.

    I disagree with Whiskey and think he SHOULD go to a hooker. Not just for a one night thing, but maybe something like the Bunny Ranch in Vegas. You need to demystify women and the girls there are very nice and can give you some tips. Obviously what you are doing is not working. Morsealleux had a longer post on why this was a good idea, check it out.

  37. ” There’s no such thing as a low mileage 20 something female.”

    Not true. There are some out there, but they don’t stay single for long. Many nerdy/geeky girls are like this: low number of sex partners, into cosplay or more masculine hobbies, often have some social issues themselves so they are more compassionate and understanding to male nerds/geeks. Problem is, there’s so few of them that to find one *not* in a relationship is like striking oil.

    Another issue is that modern day feminism has sunk it’s claws deep into nongeek/nerd women, who now see 99% male-1% female spaces as being inherently sexist. So there is a massive amount of fake geek/nerd girls and women causing trouble by forcing their way into conventions and jobs that usually only a incredibly small amount of women want to be involved with.

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