32 comments on “Real Action

  1. Thanks, man!

    Whenever I talk to a friend in real life about the various injustices in the judicial system against men, they always ask “So why don’t men protest it?”. The fact that I can’t point to tangible protests being made always bugged me, and it looks like our complaining about anti-male laws is hollow….

    I, and others, need to keep jolting other men into actually *doing* something. All sorts of obscure causes seem to have a support apparatus behind them, but Men’s Rights does not, yet.

    • I have run into the same problem. Even at a personal level I have wanted to do something but where do i sign up? How do I start taking action? There has been nothing out there in terms of ideas on what to do. Hopefully this is starting to change. This is why I have a page dedicated to submitting ideas.

      • This might help:
        http://www.avoiceformen.com/2011/05/26/one-volunteer-away-from-a-false-accusers-registry/

        “Start the AVfM False Accuser Registry.

        How this is done is simple. Just gather up a list of proven false accusers of sexual assault, DV, child molestation or any other crime usually prosecuted against men on allegation alone, and send it to me.

        The information should include the following.

        Accusers name, not the name of their victim

        Link to source story.

        And, whenever available:

        Their picture

        Personal information like home address, place of employment, phone numbers, age, date of birth, etc.

        Name of prosecutor on the case

        The punishment/lack of punishment received

        All this will take is one good MRA to step up and pour the foundation on this one. 15-20 would be a good start, and then we can add from there as they come up or as people point to ones we have missed.”

  2. The reason that MRAs aren’t “doing” anything is rather complex.

    For one thing, they are such complete neophytes that they have no idea WHAT to do, or HOW to do it even if they did. (E.G. If a computer system goes wacky, it is *useless* telling somebody to “do something about it” if they know NOTHING WHATSOEVER about computers in the first place!)

    For another thing, they have their plates full making a living and the like, and little to spare for political adventures in the activist realm.

    For another thing, they are not members of the political class, with connections in the activist culture and so on. And their own peer groups are a cultural wasteland in that respect, with the internet being their only “lifeline”. And so they milk that lifeline for all it is worth, having little or nothing else to milk.

    For another thing, a lot of them ARE doing something.(Can you prove otherwise?) One gets a very tiny window on the world by merely reading websites. You have virtually no clue what is happening IRL with a lot of these people.

    For another thing, the “proto-movement” is growing steadily, and even if it is still merely “proto”, it is getting bigger. I have seen it happening; I have smelt it in the wind; I have read the writing on the wall. This thing is an organism with certain life stages, and when the time is ripe for what is right, things will happen.

    Activism will spring to life when the community with its web of interconnections reaches critical mass. “Nothing big happens until something big happens”, and in this case, “bigness” equates to critical mass and massive mutual awareness of same.

    At that point, the momentum will become unstoppable.

    In the meantime, the war continues to be memetic and propagandistic, and skilled agitators are the personnel presently most needed. The question is, where the hell are they hiding? The average MRA is a hopeless putz in the field of agitation and its necessary grounding of rhetorical discipline.

    • For another thing, a lot of them ARE doing something.(Can you prove otherwise?) One gets a very tiny window on the world by merely reading websites. You have virtually no clue what is happening IRL with a lot of these people.

      All this means is that we need to talk about what we are doing more. We need to share ideas on what to do. Yes, not knowing what to do is a real problem. Ignoring the issue isn’t going to solve it.

      Lots of things are happening and that’s good but we still need to get off our butts and do something. Even small actions are important. As I worked on becoming self employed I spoke to a lot of self employed men to find out what being self employed was like. It gave me the opportunity to speak to them about the MRM. They all agreed with nearly everything I said although they weren’t familiar with the terms like pussy pass. In fact one of the main reasons most of these men because self employed contractors was because of feminized office evironments. A reason not that different than my sexual harassment troubles. None of these men found an MRA website so they has no idea that there was a MRM or a proto-MRM out there. They believed they were the only ones who thought this way and were afraid to speak up. Even just getting the word out is important but too many MRAs spend their time dicking around with dead communists and what the Rockefellers may have been doing or not doing 70 years ago.

      Things are happening but do you want to wait decades or do even just some small things and shorten that timeframe?

  3. fidelbogen,

    Oh, the awareness level even among general men is higher than a year ago.

    More and more, I see a growing divide among men, with men who ‘get it’ to varying degrees on one side, and on the other side, whiteknights doubling down on their whiteknighting.

    This division will become more visible soon. It is a sign of progress.

    They can double down only so many times. After that, a breaking point is reached.

    Also, I do consider the running of Game to be a substantial action to correct the power imbalance that women presently enjoy. This is true even for a college kid running Game, with no inkling of judicial misandry. He has freed himself of all the burdens that the pedestalizer/beta bears.

    Not all Men’s Rights work that needs to be done is tedious or cumbersome. Some of it is even fun.

    average MRA is a hopeless putz in the field of agitation

    This is where the Game crowd comes in. Look at Roissy. Whatever else he may be, he is certainly an agititator who really bugs the right people.

    • Dude, you are completely deluded.

      Game only REWARDS women’s insane expectations. It tells women that they are RIGHT to destroy Beta males.

      Not only do women not care about what the foul emotional / legal / physical abuse they heap upon Betas, they are actually PROUD of their evil deeds and the world of Game tells them that they are RIGHT to be proud of what they have done.

      Make no mistake, Game may be an adaptation to a toxic environment for some males, but it is not the solution.

      if anything, the Playas are ultimately on the Feminists’ side. Both of them despise and demonize the Betas and/or anyone without game, telling women they have every right to despise and destroy such males.

      Any male that tells their fellow man they DESERVE to be eviscerated by women for the Unforgivable Sin of not having enough Game is our enemy, not our friend.

  4. “This is where the Game crowd comes in. Look at Roissy. Whatever else he may be, he is certainly an agititator who really bugs the right people.

    The PUAs have their sector, and the MRAs have theirs. What I would like to see is MRAs in particular learning some agitprop “game” within the specifically MRA field of operations. Of course, defining that field would be a critical starting point. Some putzes don’t have a clue yet. . . . 😦

  5. All right, ideas for ACTION.

    This is easy, or at least simple, although it takes a lot of grunt work and leg work:

    Compose small propaganda leaflets that can be photocopied about 8 to a sheet. These leaflets might contain a quick anti-feminist ‘blurb’, and then a couple of web URLs that would get people started on their learning curve and voyage of discovery.

    Deposit these leaflets in large numbers at well chosen locations, in a discreet manner of course.

    A cheap photocopier/printer for home use, and a bayonet style paper-cutter, would be good investments for this project.

    I define our principle task at the moment, and for quite some time yet, as recruitment and community building. Maybe not what some people would call “activism” per se, but yet. . . oh so necessary and foundational!

    • Great ideas. The biggest thing is that we need to speak up. In talking to men about this the biggest problem is that if you don’t find a MRA blog or website you have no idea there are other men who think the same way you do. They need us to tell them they are not alone.

  6. Essentially our movement is more less in the stage of intellectual development. The most important thing is to educate and develop institutions. There is no point in activism at this stage because we don’t have the numbers. Probably the most important development in the MRA movement has been the rise of the MRA blogs and Spearhead magazine.

    “Also, I do consider the running of Game to be a substantial action to correct the power imbalance that women presently enjoy.”

    Game is irrelevant. It does nothing about sexual harrassment laws, cultural misandry, the false rape industry, the domestic violence industry or institutional feminism. And feminists are working on outlawing game by outlawing approaches:

    http://hollabacknyc.blogspot.com/

    Feminists would eventually like to criminalize looking at women in any public place. This includes bars and clubs. So game is not an escape because eventually if feminists have their way they will be able to arrest the “gamers”.

    • Game is irrelevant. It does nothing about sexual harrassment laws, cultural misandry, the false rape industry, the domestic violence industry or institutional feminism. And feminists are working on outlawing game by outlawing approaches:

      http://hollabacknyc.blogspot.com/

      Feminists would eventually like to criminalize looking at women in any public place. This includes bars and clubs. So game is not an escape because eventually if feminists have their way they will be able to arrest the “gamers”.

      This is just more proof to me that game doesn’t exist. Of course feminists will try and criminalize something that doesn’t exist to arrest men. I will be laughing all the way to the bank. At the point the gamers will be wishing they had done real work.

      • No, Game DOES exist. It’s just that that Gamers are not on our side. The fact is, only the Alphas and the best Gamers will survive because they’re the only ones who can convince the girls that they aren’t perverts and rapists.

        The less successful Playas will be swiftly destroyed if they fail.

        The Alphas have no problem with this because they don’t need Game, they got women chasing after THEM and, quite frankly, they don’t give a shit about Betas.

        The Gamers won’t have a problem until they fuck up and are facing jail time and/or wallet rape.

    • Completely wrong. In fact, feminists will attempt to arrest the men who lack Game, rather than those who have Game.

      Feminists want to eliminate men that they DON’T find attractive. Game is in fact the way to not get caught in the net.

      Feminists have no chance of outlawing approaches – rather, they want to filter out omegas from the men they want to approach.

      • Completely wrong. In fact, feminists will attempt to arrest the men who lack Game, rather than those who have Game.

        The existence of women like Denise Romano proves that false.

        Feminists want to eliminate men that they DON’T find attractive.

        They also want to eliminate men who they believe are fooling them into thinking they’re attractive.

  7. I don’t understand this.

    Are all of you saying that MRA’s are totally distinct from the Father’s Rights movement? Glenn Sacks now runs Fathers and Families.
    And that the National Coalition of Free Men isn’t an MRA organization?
    And what about R.A.D.A.R? http://www.mediaradar.org/

    Both of these organizations as well as the RADAR folks have not only had legislative victories (though so far only at the State and local levels) but have spent years putting information out there. And while they are still small overall, they are much larger than they were even ten years ago. NCFM even has a lobbyist in the CA legislature.

    Thus I’m confused how people seem to think the MRA is a new movement. It’s not new, it’s just mostly been small and obscure and impotent. The internet really has helped.

    • I confess ignorance.

      I didn’t know anything about RADAR. The Father’s rights movement I do know about and I know they have had legislative victories. I also know the men’s rights movement has been around a while. I have never heard of the National Coalition of Free Men. It seems like it is pretty small and obscure.

  8. Assman:

    It is small and obscure in the larger society. But I urge you to look it up. For one thing, it’s been around quite a while..if I recall correctly since the late 70’s or early 80’s. For two, it now has ten branches where a decade ago it only had maybe 3. You might also google Marc Angelucci as he is an MRA who runs the organization and has been involved in some legislative battles.

  9. I found your blog via Citizen Renegade. While those guys think game is the answer to feminism, I think you’re correct in that not everyone can learn game. And frankly, even if they do, that is no guarantee of sex because for women, it’s all relative. If you had a 100 men and 100 women at a party, and all the men were alphas, the 100 women would still flock to the top 10% of the alphas. Or to put it another way, since it’s all relative, not everyone can be alpha, or more precisely, only 10% or so of guys can be alpha from a female perspective.

    • Right and even if game really existed it isn’t going to protect a man from feminism. It doesn’t protect you against sexual harassment crap, false rape charges, being a victim of paternity fraud, etc.

      • Yes, it does, in fact. A man with Game knows how to weed out women who are unstable, and is otherwise less at risk of being accused of ‘harassment’. In fact, men who have no Game are the ones accused of ‘harassment’ even if they did nothing. ‘Harassment’ in womanspeak means ‘being insufficiently attractive to women’.

        Why on earth would you think Game does not exist? I practice it, as do many others. Any man who does well with women has Game (whether natural or learned).

  10. “In talking to men about this the biggest problem is that if you don’t find a MRA blog or website you have no idea there are other men who think the same way you do. They need us to tell them they are not alone.”

    What needs to happen, in society at large, is to break the silence about all of this. It is a snowballing process. When enough people know about these things, and when everybody KNOWS that everybody knows that everybody knows. . .etc… then the cat will be out of the bag and the energy will be unstoppable.

    In the meantime, it is frustrating that we have so few effective propagandists and agitators. Ten writers of the calibre of Thomas Paine, would work wonders. . .

    It is also quite frustrating that we lack unity of vision as a foundation for policy.

  11. “Thus I’m confused how people seem to think the MRA is a new movement. It’s not new, it’s just mostly been small and obscure and impotent. The internet really has helped.”

    The problem is that our terminologies are a chaotic tangle, and we are forever talking PAST each other because we are using different words in different ways. Also, we lack an efficient political overview, a map of the territory.

    A subject which I address HERE:

    http://www.4shared.com/document/Y7LmET5s/EfficientPoliticalWorldview.html?

  12. I wonder how many incel guys, or nearly incel guys, are out there? The problem is that the shame from coming out as incel is so great that nobody does it. So while we think all our friends get laid occasionally because of their stories, it could be that many of our friends are in the same boat, without us even knowing it.

    Just look at how David Alexander is ridiculed over at Citizen Renegade. The shaming comes from the women (to be expected) AND the men.

    • We really don’t know how many incel or nearly incel guys are out there. I don’t speak about this in real life. Other men would not either.

      David Alexander isn’t the example I would use since I don’t think he’s involuntarily celibate. Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Tech may be a better example. He got a lot of shaming for his views when he was a virgin. Then he got laid and still says the same things but the shaming is gone. The message is loud and clear from that.

  13. Right, no one comes out in real life, which is why every time the subject is brought up in the comments at Citizen Renegade, everyone says that nearly every guy they know gets laid at least semi-regularly.

  14. BetaGamma:

    I’ve went up to 7 years at a time of my life since sexual development (16) or thereabouts without female sexual companionship. Now I’m in a relationship, and I’ve studied game the past 2 years off and on , but that hardly demolishes the fact that its very easy for a shy/socially awkward and poor guy (I’ve been all 3 at times) to be sexually invisible, not knowing how to initiate nor read attraction cues. Now, while I’d answer some anonymous survey about my lack of sexual access, that doesn’t necessarily say I’d admit it in a setting such as say, a gym locker room. Thus I’m willing to bet alot of those guys at CR either are in college and other culturally approved “hook up” places , or they take their friends words at face value, when perhaps they shouldn’t.

    By the way, if I had to rate my looks – the best I’ve ever looked was a male 7, the worst a male 6. It wasn’t physical repulsiveness that caused me to go at times a few years without even a hug.

    • Clarence, I think you’re right. We take our guy friends’ word at face value, even though we know guys are very likely to exaggerate in this area. So it may be that virgins are saying they’ve had sex with 2 or 3 women, and guys in low single digits exaggerate up to high single digits.

  15. TFH:

    Game provides some protection it is true.
    But it’s not 100 percent. Signals reading isn’t 100 percent and not all girls have the exact same signals , not to mention some women will do these things in the cold light of self interested selfishness. And if you start hitting on lots of different the girls the odds actually go up that at least one of them will flake on you – I’ve known more than one PUA that had to sweat through a charge of this or that.

    I combine MRA activism with PUA and I try to give men ideas on how to protect themselves via such methods as saving chats/emails or surreptious recordings or common sense practices such as try never to be all alone with a woman you don’t know. It’s not easy, and its not always very nice from a trust stand point, but what can you do?

    I’ve also been doing this long enough that I can assure you that, yes some women think PIV sex is inherently misogynistic and would love to outlaw it if they could. The male mangina feminist Hugo Schwyzer recently had one such woman on his blog trying to explain why normal hetero sex is rape and how it would be best for women to abstain from it.

  16. Lemme borrow a quote I seen on Youtube here:

    “I do not like “slavery” because by nature I am a free man. Feminists, along with everything else in the machine, represent slavery. However, they are not the source of society’s ills. And this is why I do not associate myself with the men’s rights movement. They are caught up in the machine’s “gender war” thinking that they can somehow “alter the course” of the machine. They thinks this is the FIRST-TIME this has occurred. When this has been going on since Babylon.”

    The machine is one large step ahead of people, they created feminism, they anticipated the problems that it would create, and they created MRA to go up against it. The Matrix plays all sides. What we need is an anti-movement movement, individual initiatives working towards a common goal. All we can really do is spread awareness.

  17. I really like this post, I dig it. I am a software engineer myself and I deal with an odd helping of contempt around the office. I do not react to it though and treat everyone with respect, even my enemies. This is very disarming for them. I also seem to be picking-up a few allies here and there (both men and women). The bible says to love your enemies and I can see why, it’s the best defense you have against their choice weapons.

    I have been developing a venture on the side for the past three years. I am planning to quit my job at the software company once I reach a few more milestones. If you’re a software engineer you always have the option of developing an iPhone app. That’s easy money, there’s always something an iPhone can’t do that a user wished it could do. It’s also relatively easy to make a living off stock trading if you can practice self-control, risk-tolerance, and analyzing chart patterns.

    This brings me to my primary point: risk tolerance. I believe a major problem plaguing men today (and ironically initiating sexual relationships) is a lack of risk-tolerance. In order to take any kind of real action risk is always associated. Men fail to take risks I think due to the lack of a support base to fall-back upon if all hell breaks loose. Perhaps before men start taking action with significant risks men should focus on establishing that support base.

    The support base I think is essentially a brotherhood that cultivates and promotes the unique strengths and abilities of its members and learns to work cooperatively (as opposed to independently) so that no one individual must depend too much on weaker traits. This reduces risk substantially. More importantly, whenever consequences do arise, the collective resources (monetary or otherwise) of a brotherhood can quickly rehabilitate a fallen comrade.

    Today we men fail to take risks I think because we have become isolated islands and have become painfully aware of the consequences should we ever fail. Therefore we habitually learn to set the bar lower and lower to avoid complete disaster. I believe the benefits offered by a brotherhood as a solution to this problem make independence versus cooperation like night and day.

    The brotherhood I belong to is also working on that venture. There are only three of us for now but it will grow as I carefully inform certain others of our plans. The three of us are all co-owners of this project (co-alphas?). It was a difficult choice to let go and share, but I am very glad I did. With the blessed gift of complete autonomy all of us put a proactive diligent effort towards our mutual goal and in-turn further deepen our bonds preparing us for the future challenges that await us. We have no problem getting together brainstorming for hours and also going home and working on it for hours. The former is often easy to attain but the latter is rare.

    The vulnerability of a brotherhood (or a fellowship) is the breaking of that fellowship. When members of the fellowship go their own way it makes everyone weaker. It is important to set aside differences and focus on the common goals to hold a brotherhood together. In our case, Christ and the Gospel is our common goal. Without getting into theology our common belief that Christ is a person with whom we have a deep relationship strengthens the bonds and commitment to each other in our brotherhood and catalyzes our sense of purpose and our autonomy.

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