47 comments on “Why Don’t The “Good Women” Differentiate Themselves?

  1. Very few women are “good” women. The aggressive alphas snap them up as soon as they become available. In fact, because alphas are allowed to break the law while betas are thrashed soundly, alphas scoop up the “good” women before they are even legal; the betas have to wait until they are out of college and have ridden the alpha carousel a bunch of times. By which time, they are no longer good women.

  2. I’d like you take a look at this video W&N.

    I love watching it, I watch it over and over again because it is just so comforting to know that others FEEL as low as me. I know this man ins’t as low as me though.

  3. I think there are a lot of conservative shy good women out there, but are likely difficult to find since they don’t go out as much or aren’t as social as most women are these days. Also, Timothy makes an excellent point above, that a lot of the “good” ones get snapped up earlier on in life… I suppose that’s just the way it goes.

  4. I feel like your NAWALT muse 😉

    Like i said before, you speak the truth in the general sense, but not absolutely. There are good women out there. But as the Borg always said:


    Hey, White and Nerdy, do you watch MST3k? I want to download new episodes, which ones are your favorite?

    • There are two fundamental problems here:

      1. Why are the good women acting in a way completely contrary to being a good woman?
      2. Why are the good women not acting like good women when if they were good women it would be in their best interests to act like good women and be as visible as possible doing it?

      Knowing this the “good women” are either insane or retarted or not really good women. The last option is the most likely.

      • 1. Could be that they either;
        a) are only pretending to be good women

        b) have the potential to be good women, but see that it’s easier to reap the benefits of a corrupt system

        c) are good women, but suffered from intense bullying by other girls while growing up and thus feel they have no voice, either around other women or just in general

        d) are good women, but are “blind” in that they work in female dominated fields, have no guy friends, are lesbians, or some combination thereof that results in them not even considering that men have issues worth addressing. It’s hard to change one’s behavior if you don’t know it’s something that should be changed.

        2. Depends on what you mean by “visible”. According to the 2013 US Census, about 51% of the population is female…that’s roughly 162 million women. Let’s say 100 million are over the age of 18, so we’re only dealing with adults. How many of these 100 million do you, or I, or any MGTOW/MRA personally know or even just interact with in ways that would show what they think of men’s rights?

        As you probably know by now, I have a vagina, whether I want one or not (which I don’t). I generally present as female in my daily life, so I’ll give answering this a shot.

        I am very pro-human rights, and identify as an egalitarian. I am currently 30 years old, but only found out about the MRM, MGTOWs, etc 4 years ago. When I was still in high school and college, I used to constantly speak out about the issues I saw boys my own age face. I have only had male friends since 8th grade, and have gender dysphoria so I was never part of the female solidarity because the majority of girls either hated me outright or engaged in subtle bullying tactics that made me realize I could never be accepted. Whether it’s due to these facts, or because I’m an INTJ personality type, or because I simply didn’t swallow the feminist BS we are given in public, I didn’t see what I was “meant” to see. This led to me being downright ostracized by all the girls in my classes, and a significant portion of the boys. My only friends were fellow geeks and nerds, who I cared for deeply. But if your visibility only goes as far as the 20 people in your classroom, and even then you just get ignored after a while…how “visible” can you be to a man 500 miles away who thinks AWALT?

        Before I started my own blog last year, I commented on various feminist blogs constantly pointing out the same things that the MRM points out now. However, my comments were either deleted, I was banned, or I was yelled down for my “latent misogyny and unconscious patriarchal acceptance” that I stopped for the most part.

        I do still comment on a few here and there, but it gets so passive-aggressive that I usually don’t bother. It’s like trying to tell someone their house is burning down when they just think their fireplace is larger than normal. The cognitive dissonance I see on many feminist blogs is truly worrisome…they will all-out admit that men as a whole have problems worth talking about, but then say that the way to combat these issues is through more feminism, an ideology that *says* it’s for equal rights while simultaneously identifying as a women’s movement. Ugh.

        This is why I created my blog: to have a safe, male-friendly space where people can talk about their issues. I do post about other topics like Paganism, games/comics, or daily life stuff from time to time, but the majority of my blog is dedicated to gender/sex relations. I don’t have a large voice, and with only 270 subscribers it’s not very loud yet. But it is there, and it is being listened to. One of the problems I have is one you addressed yourself: how can I, a lone individual, get anything rolling? What can I do to really contribute to the MRM? I live in NY, but would be willing to drive just about anywhere in the tri-state area to meet with like minded men, whether MGTOW or MRA. Just…where are they? How do I get in touch with them without doxxing myself, since I am very open online? Where can I find men who actually want to get petitions signed, open men’s shelters, protest outside of establishments that have “ladies nights” or “women only” hours?

        I have to get ready for work now, but I hope that this answered your questions. I look forward to hearing from you.

        • 1. Could be that they either;
          a) are only pretending to be good women

          If they’re pretending to be good women, they’re doing a shitty job of it.

          b) have the potential to be good women, but see that it’s easier to reap the benefits of a corrupt system

          If they have made that choice, then they aren’t really good women.

          c) are good women, but suffered from intense bullying by other girls while growing up and thus feel they have no voice, either around other women or just in general

          We should see at least few fighting back against other women…

          I found an example on another blog that illuminates the problem. Why is there no organization of paternal grandmothers helping their divorced sons with custody, visitation, and child support issues? Divorce is rampant, and women get custody of the kids nearly all of the time. Even if a man is granted visitation, the courts basically refuse to enforce it. What this means is that the parents of the man, paternal grandparents, effectively lose contact with their grandchildren as a result of divorce. This is a case where mothers of divorced men could be a big help, and the mothers of divorced men would directly benefit because they would regain contact with their grandchildren. Yet, there is no such organization of grandmothers nor are they part of any fathers rights organization. This means one of two possible things going on:

          1. Women are willing to sacrifice contact with their grandchildren just to stick it to men, even their own sons
          2. While the son loses visitation with his children, the grandmother is getting visitation from her son’s ex-wife but is complicit in cutting her own son out of her grandchildren’s life

          Either possibility is pretty evil. Either women are willing to sacrifice a relationship with their grandchildren (something that would be in their own best interests) for the cause of female solidarity and sticking it to men when their own sons are victims in the process. Or they’re giving a big middle finger to their sons. Given how often divorce happens, not to mention children conceived outside of marriage, this shows that most women are not just anti-male in the broad sense, but willing to hurt their own sons and sacrifice their own individual best interests for womanhood.

          This is the difference between evil women and evil men. Men can be evil individually against individual women, but most men won’t join in with support. OTOH, evil women get support from most women even if those women would PERSONALLY BENEFIT from opposing evil women.

  5. It could also be the Black Swan problem.

    I have never seen a black swan, therefore black swans do not exist.

    Can we talk about something fun now?

    • DR, watch this film, this entertaining and enlightening film for some fun, then lets talk about it. I really want your thoughts on it. I want you to tell me where you think this guy stands on the alpha/beta/omega spectrum. Could you ever been interested in a male like this. This will also allow you to peek into the world of the modern male and his plight. You need to understand that for certain people sex/romance can only offer them pain, suffering and humilation. For such people the question of the true amount of “good women” is completely irrevelant. This film is an attempt of one man to cope with just such a reality, I want you to peak into this world and then get back to me with a full report. I know what this pain is Dream Puppy, I want you to know it to.


    • The problem with that is that in this case the “black swan” has lots of reasons that are in its own self interest to make itself visible.

      For that matter what we’re really dealing with is a case of supposed black swans but since they don’t act like black swans people start asking questions if they’re really white swans that someone painted black.

      My two questions still stand. And why is it all about trying to convince me and other men that good women exist? Women say all the time (and believe) that there are no good men out there. No one challenges them on that. If anything they get a, “you go girl”.

  6. @Mahoney

    OK- I’ll watch it this weekend and we can chat about it.

    @W&N: Obviously my NAWALT-ism is based on the fact that *I* am a woman and I also think I am very nice in general and an excellent wife, therefore I have very strong anecdotal evidence for NAWALT-ism. Further, if all women are assholes, and I am a woman, then I would be an asshole- and that’s something I don’t believe nor want others to think.

    I am willing to accept most, or almost all, but not all.

    • Like I said in the post.
      “I can count the number of women I know of who have differentiated themselves on one hand with fingers left over. ”

      Yes they exist but they’re a rounding error compared to the rest of female population.

  7. W&N you are not very nerdy if you don’t want to talk sci fi with me….come onnnnnnnn.

    Did you ever see MST3K puma man? I’m on a Mike kick. I don’t like Joel anymore. He gave a very rude interview.

  8. I think I used to play Fallout in arcades when I lived in Seoul. They have a huge arcade and PC room culture there. Is fallout the one where the world ends and you have to go around shooting zombies? I like the FPS games and Halo, but haven’t played in a while. I’m more of a Tetris person (:::ducks:::)

    You need to watch Puma Man and Werewolf from MST3K. Theyre available on demonoid, I think. Werewolf is awesome. The cast is all from Latvia or god knows where and they have hilarious accents.

    @mahoney, i still haven’t watched that doc- will get to it today.

  9. “The good women are feminists and want nothing to do with a creep and monster like you.”

    Because you have just landed right in the middle of…. The Twilight Zone.

    *cue T-Zone music*

    If the “good women” are the ones who applaud random male castrations and genital mutilation,who believe that males should be reduced to 10% of the human race,I’m swearing off sex right now.I don’t want to get ahold of a bad woman.

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  11. I’m late to this convo, but if I may offer my .02…

    Women are more dependent on social support (or “the herd”) than men are and are less willing to rock the boat and lose their friends/social standing/etc. In light of this as a group women are less likely to rock the boat, state their true opinion/values/morals, and are more apt to toe the party line to keep the social peace. Often you will find women care far more for the praise and admiration from their fellow women than they care about anything that comes from men.

    When the herd is bad, as is typically the case today, following will naturally lead to being pulled down to the lowest common denominator of crass disgusting behavior and grotesque values.

    Or in short, women do not stand out for doing so may very well be social suicide and they’ve made the choice for false friendships as opposed to being a good person.

    • If women are this afraid to state their true opinions/values/morals for fear of “social suicide” then do they really believe something different than the “bad women”? How are they not “bad women”?

      More importantly what do we do about it? Even if it’s possible to turn the “herd” good again (but I think that ship sailed a long time ago) it justs means the “herd” will turn bad again sooner or later. You’re obviously different Hestia. What do you think makes you different? I can’t help but think you’re a genetic mutation of some kind. (I mean that in the best possible way since you are one of the few women I actually respect.)

      • How are they not “bad women”?
        Personally I would clump them into the “bad women” group. The reality of social pressure is there, but that does not justify immoral behavior. If anything, choosing to resist the herd is almost a challenge that marks one’s climb into maturity. If a woman can stick by her values and beliefs when she is going to pay dearly for doing so, she has made a truly good decision. And if she doesn’t, just the opposite is true.

        I can’t help but think you’re a genetic mutation of some kind.
        LOL, if that’s the case let’s hope my young daughter possesses the same too. 😉

        Kidding aside, I’d credit my strict upbringing and my parents for the way I turned out. All the “over-protection” and chats about morality were something I hated back then but served me well in my teens and beyond. My dad would have never put up with some of the hysterics classmates and church friends gave their parents and that sent a big message to me even when I was very young.

  12. Hi W&N, Hollenhund directed me here with a comment. I think Hestia makes an excellent point. Social suicide is no exaggeration. Women can be brutal and unforgiving for those who don’t tow the line, hence the term “mean girls.” I also think it’s very hard for anyone to take a stand individually. There is much more comfort in group action. Some of this occurs naturally, as like tends to pair with like for friendship. The “good” women are there, but they’re often flying under the radar.

    In today’s SMP I don’t think the alphas are scooping up the good women. A good-looking woman who won’t put out fast gets no attention from those guys. They’ll happily cavort with less attractive promiscuous girls, whose hypergamous instinct has them eager to please. The good-looking chaste woman has priced herself out of the market, and will have to sit on the sidelines through college as a beta female. By the way, they don’t like hearing that any more than beta guys do.

    • Susan, first please take off your blinders about how this is all about “getting laid”.

      If women care more for avoiding social suicide (and I believe you and Hestia are correct on this point) than for freedom, justice, truth, basic human decency, and civilization, then in no way can they be considered good women. It means they don’t have the values they claim. I can’t tell the difference between this and secrectly supporting the “bad women” espcially since the “good women” benefit from the “bad women’s” actions.

      Plenty of men have no trouble taking a stand individually. I have been accused of everything from being a rapist to a pedophile which is worse than anything than “social suicide”. (And that doesn’t include the possiblity of losing my job or going to jail.) I still keep going because it’s the right thing to do. (And because it’s a fight for my freedom, property, and maybe my life.)

      When it comes to the sexual harassment industry, the false rape industry, affirmative action, the divorce court grinder, etc. where are the “good women”? Nowhere to be found or ganging up on the men with the “bad women”. I have experienced this myself with all of the sexual harassment crap I have had to deal with. No woman ever said/did anything in my defense. Even the “good women” who didn’t start it were willing to join in when the “bad women” gave the cover.

      Since you brought up getting laid, I don’t buy into the idea that there are all these “chaste college girls”. If they really want a man so bad there’s plenty of good guys in the computer science and engineering departments. They don’t want good men. They want to impress other women. Besides I’m not in college anymore. I’m in my early 30s. Are you seriously going to tell me that there are lots of early 30s virgin women?

      Women have become a threat to all human advancement that has happened since hunter gather times.

  13. Susan Walsh wrote :
    I think Hestia makes an excellent point. Social suicide is no exaggeration. Women can be brutal and unforgiving for those who don’t tow the line, hence the term “mean girls.” I also think it’s very hard for anyone to take a stand individually.

    Translation : women are herd creatures. Toeing the line with her sisters is a much higher priority than a decent guy. Why do you think PUAs like Roissy spend so much time on social proofing?

    The “good” women are there, but they’re often flying under the radar.

    It isn’t clear to me then why the “good” women aren’t regularly approaching nerdy but decent engineers and software developers.

  14. Some of the good women are engineers and other STEM types. But in general, women are reluctant to approach. You’re working against many years of evo programming there, to compensate for societal changes in the last 50 years. The smart women will find ways to approach good men, STEM or otherwise. For many women, that will be the difference between being single and married. Of course, as far as I know, STEM men haven’t cornered the market on goodness, though obviously they are highly intelligent, which is a plus.

    • > But in general, women are reluctant to approach.

      There are many ways to “approach” and they don’t always carry the direct risk of rejection.

      You’re working against many
      > years of evo programming there, to compensate for societal changes in the last
      > 50 years

      That doesn’t seem to have stopped the foreign bride market, where women from third world countries willingly advertise their availability for relationships. Many of them are very amenable to the idea of marrying a steady, decent provider. I’d chalk that one up to the hardships they’ve had close encounters with (if not experienced personally) plus the lack of social stigma in marrying a Dilbert lookalike, as long as he keeps food on the table and treats her well.

      So we’re back to the issue of social proofing again. It works against nerdy beta male types in the Western world, and for them overseas. No wonder IMBRA was passed.

    • Ray Manta already pointed out why that makes no sense. Putting that aside, Susan, what does who asks who out have to do with the subject matter at hand? It’s like you were reading another blog when you wrote this comment and accidently posted your comment here when you meant to do it on another blog.

  15. Then you should (outside of work). Be nice goddamit!! I already told you, if you talk to women in real life like you do online then they probably all think you hate them.

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  17. “I don’t talk to Hestia like that and she’s a woman.”

    That’s a very chick-like response. Personal anecdotes are meaningless. I am looking at trends.

    • The trend I’m noticing is that no matter what I say or do I get crapped on by women all the same.

      You don’t think there’s a difference between Hestia and Susan Walsh or Hestia and the average woman? If we’re talking about the events of my life it’s all personal anecdotes.

  18. there are a lot of women now that are not so good anymore. it seems all of the good ones have been taken, and for me meeting women has become very difficult. there attitude towards us men have gotten very badly. then again, i seem to meet the very nasty ones instead of the right ones. since we have much more lesbians now, it does create a problem meeting decent straight women . as a straight man, i was married twice and was a very caring and loving husband. i was very committed in my marriage, and never cheated on them. however, they did cheat on me. now that i am alone again, i will go out every single night just not to be home by myself. when i was married, i always was home and did not have to go out looking for it elsewhere. i was always the one woman man. now i go out hoping to be at the right place at the right time, to meet a good woman.

  19. Hey there,

    It’s an interesting question and one that I truly hope I can answer for you.
    I understand what you’re saying first of all and it is tricky because there are several components at work here. It also does depend to a certain degree on what you define as a good woman. In fact I’d say what you define as a good woman is probably the key component here.

    For example. I’m a single mother, so by simple definition, that, for many men, immediately places me automatically into the bad woman category. I personally wouldn’t class myself as a bad woman for several reasons, I respect men. I always meet a man half way. I’m an affectionate person by nature so hugs and kisses is a given with me and I’m also one of the women who does believe in genuine equality. Men and women as equals, partners, on the same level. But, what you then need to bear in mind is that in spite of all those things, I’m by no means flawless. I’ve made mistakes. I’ve dated the wrong guys. I’ve chosen paths that have ultimately been the wrong ones. In short, I have a past. Add all those things up and, for many men, you immediately have a classic red flag screaming “this is a bad woman”.

    The way I see it, we all have our baggage. Some weighs more than others. We all have a past and we’ve all been burned in life. Nobody is perfect and everyone will at some point in their life, have made mistakes and screwed up. That’s life. What I personally feel speaks volumes about a person, any person, man or woman, is if they can stand up and admit their own mistakes. If they put in the work and time that’s required to put their past behind them and leave it there, so it won’t spill over into other relationships. If they can stand up and hold their hands out and say they screwed up. Does that make sense? To me that is one thing that defines a good woman. If she can take responsibility for her own actions.

    I don’t necessarily believe that just because you’ve messed up and have a past and made mistakes that this classes you as a bad woman. But then it also depends on how you deal with your past. Do you deal with it and put it behind you where it belongs? Or do you keep dragging it up and using it to punish other people? That’s a bad woman, to me anyway.

    With regard to how women will define themselves. It’s tricky. I usually have issues with women who will outright leap on the defensive and say “well I’m not like that”, cause to me, actions speak louder than words, know what I mean? I say that simply through talking to someone, getting to know them, you can usually figure out if they’re a good woman or a bad woman. This is where feminism usually screws things up, cause women are all about independance. Their independance and intelligence, translates, in many occasions to pure arrogance and it’s intolerable. Also, many women have this misguided belief that men are intimidated by independant, inteeligent women. I call bullshit on that one. What I think men take issue with is the arrogance that women have that they are better than everyone else and don’t need anyone. That I think is what men take issue with.

    Another component that plays a huge part in all this is a man’s willingness to open a door and give a woman a chance to prove herself and this is where past is key. If you’ve been burned many times, your trust levels sink to zero. It becomes very hard to actually even be willing to open a door and give someone a chance to prove themselves to you.

    I’d say there are good women out there, but they are like diamonds in the rough. Also, there are good women who fall into categories that you (general you, not you personally) might not say by definition is a good woman, ie the single mum, or the woman who has dated the wrong types, or the woman with a tougher than usual past. It all depends really on how the woman has dealt with these things and how she acts to other people.

    When women will openly state you’re wrong in your thoughts, opinions and beliefs, then immediately that to me would set alarm bells ringing because that’s the denfensive leaping out. There’s a level of arrogance in that and it just screams disrespect. Disrespect to you and your experiences.

    Wow, I’m sorry, hon. That kinda got jumbled about all over the place. I have a horrible tendency to not think when I write, but just write what I’m thinking at that time. Did any of that make any sense at all? If it didn’t please feel free to ask and I’ll clarify anything that needs clarifying. I tend to ramble on a bit so I do know it doesn’t always make sense, what I write.

    But yeah, in short, the key component really is what you (again, general you, not you personally) define as a good woman, cause there could be good women out there that fall into categories that would automatically have them classed as the “non good women”.

    I hope that made some sense anyway 🙂

    Have a good one, hon.


  20. if women were that good, then they should not play hard to get. as a straight man that was married twice, i was a very caring and loving husband that never cheated on them. however, they both cheated on me. i was very committed and happy as well. most of them now are filthy pigs, just by the way they dress and act. they are so drunk that you cannot even start a conversation with them. they are very nasty, and will walk away anyway. as you can see the bar is not a good place at all to meet decent women. i would have thought, going to the book store would be a much better place but is is not. they just do not want to be bothered at all, when you try to talk to them. so where can us good straight men go to meet decent women now? there seems to be a lot of lesbians out there now, much more than ever before which adds to the problem for us good men that are trying to meet a good woman for us now. i am in my late fifties, and i am a very sincere man that really would like very much to meet a good woman for me to share a life together. are there any decent straight women out there left? i would love to hear from you.

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