68 comments on “Game Is A Degenerate Religion

  1. Thanks for featuring my comment. I wanna add 2 more ironies.

    IRONY NR 1:

    Most of the game pushers you see online, don’t actually get any results. They’re at home on a saturday night, arguing with others about “seeing the light” and getting game. I know you’ve mentioned this before, but I want to confirm it.

    I actually used to do this professionally, for years. I sold “game products” for a living, worked with some of the best gurus in the world, talked to and met hundreds of “gamers” in real life. The strongest game-pushers you will see online, get the least results.

    Its ironic, that a guy has the least results, will push this religion to you most. Roissy is a good example. Try and ask him if he gets any results personally, and the guy FLIPS out, he starts shaming left and right, calling you names, etc… etc… Its like a religious zealot.

    ===
    So why do guys push game despite getting no objectively measurable results?
    ===

    A) Well, its because they think they’re secretly the only one who doesn’t. I don’t know if this makes sense?

    For example, john, mark, steven, bob and richard are all into game. None of them gets any results, but in order to protect their ego, they speak about how much results game “gets them”. Guess what, if you talk to John, the only reason he pushes game, is because he thinks it works for mark, steven, bob and richard are all getting results, and he’s “just about to get them”. So he pushes the religion based on a result that’s “about to come”.

    He says to them “well well I’m kind of busy… I don’t go out enough… the few times I have tried it, I’ve definitely seen some amazing shit happen, so I know if I just get more time (once I finish this project/university/whatever) I’ll apply game 100% and then get the results that mark, steven, bob and richard get. Until then though, I’m going to spend my Saturday nights pushing game to other guys online, and telling them that they’re losers for not being into game.

    B) A mixture of placebo and common sense

    You will notice game is often mixed in with some DECENT common sense advice that does work. Its stuff we all know intuitively, but need to be reminded of. So when reading your favorite game guru, you will (among other bullshit fluff) read that when you approach, you need to pull away, keep a distance, and not approach so close.

    This particular technique does work to bring better reactions from women, not because of some intricate alpha-male pua theory, but simple because most dorky men approach a woman too closely due to fear and anxiety, and scare the girl away.

    What does the guy do? He gets this better reaction and then goes “OMFG! GAME IS REAL!!!! I HAVE JEDI POWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”… And then ascribes the success of this little technique, to mean that everything said in game is 100% real. Its pretty idiotic, but its how our psychology thinks. That’s why all scams have kernels of truth, or little tricks that work to produce something you can feel/see.

    Bodybuilding supplements use the same trick. They’re complete scams that don’t grow muscle, but the way they are designed is to have a “fake marker of success”. What they do is they put in a compound that makes your muscles itch, or a compound that makes your muscles bloat when worked out. They don’t actually INCREASE your muscle mass at the end of the day, but they give you that little “thing” to feel, so that you can believe the rest of the marketing.

    • IRONY NR. 2

      I (alek) can take out any of these game pusher idiots, into the “field”, and make them think I am a gaming god.

      I can actually walk up to any woman, any where, and make her giggle, touch me on the shoulders and react like she’s talking to Brad Pitt.

      I don’t actually sleep with, or date any of these women. That’s the big secret of “pua game”. Its designed to LOOK like you’re getting somewhere. Its just parlor tricks. Its an illusion.

      The truth is, that I can take any of these game pushers with me into a club, supermarket, whatever… have them watch me interact with women for 40 minutes, and then they will go online and talk about “OMG WOW ALEK HAS SUCH AMAZING GAME, HE HAS THE BEST GAME I’VE EVER SEEN”.

      The truth? Its got nothing to do with end results. I still need to approach 20 women out, to lay one of them. The same ratio that I would need if I didn’t know of this game crap and parlor tricks to impress dorks looking from the side.

      The truth is, women reacting well to you (which game tricks are based on), has nothing to do with the end act of sliding your pen*s into her vag*na… It just doesn’t.

      The truth is this:

      – Women choose you. They choose you based on who you ARE. And that means being in the top 40% of the population (give or take) on status and looks. (For hot women its being in the top 10%).

      – The truth is, there are THOUSANDS of muscles in your face, and they all have a meaning and betray who you are. Same is true of every aspect of your body-language. Its impossible to learn to control all of them. You can NOT a fool a woman. IF you don’t see yourself as being in the top 40%, she can tell no matter how many years you spend practicing it.

      – Game is based on the notion that you can “act like a high status male” acts, but that’s just bogus. You can’t act your way for every single second of your life, and for every single second between hello and the bedroom. All a woman needs is to see you slip up for just 2-3 seconds, and BAM she goes “oh, this guy was faking it”. This is why PUAs get such astronomically high and unheard of flake-rates.

      – So yes, it is true that women (in addition to your physical looks) use your behavior to asses your status… But there are little a billion little details and things that betray your status, and to control them consciously is an impossibility… especially for any prolonged amount of time.

      -The idea that if you just behave like an “alpha”, you will be one and get his results is the biggest lie of the century. That’s like saying “dress, walk, talk, gesture and smile like donald trump, and you will be offered the same financial deals he is”. Will you be? No, you might fool a few people here and there to think you’re some hotshot, and ask around “wait, who is this guy, is he rich or something?”. But in the end, everyone SEES THROUGH the facade.

      • Agreed 100% with everything you said up till the point where you said: “The truth is this:”. I disagree with every single thing you said after that. I don’t believe that being in the top 40% of status and looks in necessary to get sex or a good-looking woman. To me it kind of ironic that you believe this because this idea comes directly from game. The MM method is based on the belief that women choose you due to status and the whole idea is then to fake high status.

        • “”””I don’t believe that being in the top 40% of status and looks in necessary to get sex or a good-looking woman. To me it kind of ironic that you believe this because this idea comes directly from game. “””

          Actually, the idea doesn’t come from-game… It comes from evo-psych and anthropology originally and has been verified by many studies and surveys.

          It doesn’t mean that if you’re not in the top 40% that its theoretically impossible to get a hot girlfriend, it just means that your chances drop astronomically with every step below it.

    • Most of the game pushers you see online, don’t actually get any results. They’re at home on a saturday night, arguing with others about “seeing the light” and getting game. I know you’ve mentioned this before, but I want to confirm it.

      I actually used to do this professionally, for years. I sold “game products” for a living, worked with some of the best gurus in the world, talked to and met hundreds of “gamers” in real life. The strongest game-pushers you will see online, get the least results.

      Too true. I have noticed how much time gamers spend on the internet arguing about game. If they were successful, they wouldn’t be doing that. The married gamers are the worst since all they can do is talk. They can’t even make up success stories so it’s all “not divorced yet”. When these married gamers’ wives divorce them I bet they still will argue about game rather than admit they were wrong.

      • “”””The married gamers are the worst since all they can do is talk. They can’t even make up success stories so it’s all “not divorced yet”.””””

        Here’s the funny part. If they DID get divorced… They’d still analyze through game. They’d say “oooooh I messed up coz I my game wasn’t tight enough on this day, and then on this other day I xyz, that’s why she divorced me!” loooool

        Me and my buddies (back then partners in a pickup business) actually were being trained by a famous guru I won’t name. He was teaching us how to push game… and one amazing trick he showed us… was the following….

        Any time you fail with a woman, turn to the client and say “So, do you see what I did wrong there? Notice how I didn’t xyz like we talked about in class earlier?”

        In essence, the trick is to turn back to the client and pretend like you goofed up on purpose, and you *caused* her to be a bitch. I’ve heard most companies use this trick (if not all of them).

        Clarence says that game doesn’t pretend to get every woman. But it does pretend to have “power over women”… Truth is, some women will be bitches, and there’s nothing you can do about it. But pua instructors are taught to pretend and insinuate they can control a woman’s responses like with a remote control.

        —In fact—

        That’s a huge draw to game-ism. Its a religion that strokes your ego and makes rejections easier. The truth is that all gurus still have to get 20 rejections for every one woman they get… But in order to not feel the rejection, they have to redefine game every time. “Oh, I didn’t get rejection, my lip was curved too much on this side, I needed to speak with 0.1% less vibrance… that’s it! I should have asked for the number 0.5 seconds later!”

        Mystery for example has had the exact same closing ratio for the past 15 years “he admitted he only lays one out of 11 phone numbers in a private seminar” (btw he didn’t share what percentage of numbers he gets, I’d assume its 50%, so 1 out of 20 chicks, just like every other guru)… Yet he’s constantly innovating, improving and changing up his techniques!?!?!?

        How can you innovate for 15 years and still get the exact same results? 😀 You can’t… its just that game is purposefully undefined and vague so that you can continually redefine it, so that your ego is always protected. Women aren’t rejecting you, they’re rejecting your un-perfected game.

  2. Alek:

    You are full of it, but this blog is rather sadly amusing.
    I mean, just to take one of your examples, females aren’t the All Seeing Gods of body language. After having watched them awhile I’ve found that mostly they pick up on a very few not so subtle social and facial cues. Your average female at a club can tell:
    A. Who is alpha in a group of men by the way they talk to each other and body language cues
    B. If someone understands her physical proximity boundaries.
    C. A few obvious signs of confidence.

    That is it, and understanding B and C is all one needs to approach.

    I’ve also never heard a legitimate game guru claim he could get any woman he talked to to lay him. Hell, I’ve never seen a “natural” claim that either. The world doesn’t work that way. All learning these kind of PUA tips does is give you a foot in the gate so to speak, nothing else.

    P.S, I’m not selling anythng, and I’ve never shelled out hundreds or thousands for a bootcamp. I got my training for free based on who I know. It’s worked for me. I wonder why it doesn’t work for you? At 37 (when I first started learning this stuff) did I discover I was secretely an alpha and just didn’t know it all these years? Or is it that you and Omega boy here are full of a bunch of self defeatist crap?

    • “””It’s worked for me. I wonder why it doesn’t work for you?”””

      If you actually read my 2 additional points in the follow-up, instead of skipping right into shaming-mode, you’d have actually read that today I do get much, much, much better results than I did before discovering game.

      In fact, today I get 10x better results than I did when I didn’t know about game. But see, here’s the trick, it doesn’t have anything to do with “game”. Its just that “through the game gurus” I learned about confidence, and the “faith in game” got me to talk to more women and learn social skills.

      The reason I get 10x better results is the improved social skills and confidence, not some vague ethereal and undefinable “game”.

      I love it when people who discovered “game” the other week are telling me I don’t get game, for two reasons…

      a) I get much, much better results then these game-pushers.
      b) I was actually involved with game for 10 years. I practiced, pushed, preached, and professionally taught game for years. Heck, I made a small fortune teaching it.

      So I love guys who discovered this “game” religion the other week, tried a few things, got a girl to smile or give them her number and went OMFG THIS GAME THING IS THE SHIZNIT!!! I HAVE FOUND THE SOLUTION TO ALL OF MY PROBLEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Clarence… contact me in 10 years… Heck, contact me in 4.

      “””It’s worked for me. I wonder why it doesn’t work for you?”””

      Try my faith trick on this comment… If you do, it becomes…

      “Faith in jesus has worked for me. I wonder why the bible doesn’t work for you?”

      Can you define what “works” means? Have you done a test where “pre-game” you approached a 1000 women, trying to get laid, and then, post-game you approached a 1000 women to get laid. For it to be statistically valid, you need to get laid 4x more in the latter case (or get 4x more dates).

      This is how science works.

      “”””I’ve also never heard a legitimate game guru claim he could get any woman he talked to to lay him.”””

      This is a strawman. What does this have to do with anything? My point is that there is nothing to test, nothing to scientifically validate in game, because “game” doesn’t exist.

      Individual facets do, but “game” as a “thing” doesn’t exist for it to be validated. There is nothing to test, because no 2 “gamers” can even agree on what “game” is. The thing that further complicates things is that game is taught alongside some valid concept that DO work, such as confidence, social calibration and presentation. So guys get results from the latter and ascribe it to the former.

      • Hey Alek:

        I took a screenshot and of your comment above because you seem like the type of jerk who would attack someone for making grammatical mistakes rather than deal with his or her arguments. You don’t seem particularly honest, so if you try any of that shizzit with me, I’ll be able to link to this post. I wonder what else you’d like our gracious host to delete to make you look good?

        • Actually, I think – in his own goofy way – Clarence has hit on one of the real attractions of the game cult. We’re talking about a bunch of nerds who never made the school team suddenly flouncing round claiming that they are the moral equivalent of war heroes.

          It’s not even about the women, it’s about self-validation through pretending that approaching women in a bar is totally like flying a raid over the Ruhr, and learning a few openers is just like being a sexual Green Beret.

        • @Coastal

          Yeah dude, that was sooo scary, I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. This fycker actually compared approaching women to world war 2 participation… and then talked about the moral superiority of a brave guy like Mystery. Makes you almost want to vomit.

          Btw, I can some-what understand as a decade ago, I was the same guy. I idealized approaching. Merely witnessing a guy approach a hot girl, I immediately ascribed a 10000 good qualities on the guy and made him into a god.

          Today, that happens to me when I approach hot girls, people make me into some kind of a sexual god. In fact, most PUA marketing and scams are based on this fundamental misunderstanding in men. I have no idea why, but aside from naturals, 99.9% of men are impressed by seeing a good approach. They actually think that you have mastered womanhood and have some sort of magical pyssy controller in your pocket.

          I guess it comes out of the fact that most guys get super duper HARSH shut-downs, back turns and prissy reactions from women, and assume the only way to not get them is to be in complete control of womanhood 😀

          Truth is, once you master approaching, you look back, and you’re like “wait, I used to glorify this crap?”. And I mean, anyone can do it. Before I mastered I used to be where white&nerdy is.

          I probably was worse, because I had something else going on too. I actually went to sleep many nights asking myself “was I hitler in a past life? What did I do to deserve this treatment!!! I’ve never done anything wrong to these women and they hate my fycking guts!!!”… I think i’ve cried hundreds of times in fact.

          But today, that seems like a past life…

        • Funny thing is, I have read The Game by Neil Strauss and he admits that using pickup lines can cause more harm than good in the long run. He states that by doing this you become a social robot and that it’s more about how you say than what you say that matters and you can say anything and get laid as long as you have the right frame.

          In the book if he even states that Mystery is a narcissist. This wouldn’t be a big deal until you learn that narcissists are naturally good at picking up women because they’re good at portraying a false grandiose version of themselves that women find attractive.

    • It’s funny how the only argument that proponents of game ever produce is “It worked for some people”.
      That’s not really a valid argument, and you know it – you don’t sound like an idiot, so you must have a grasp of basic logic. You can’t prove that something is true for all members of a group (i.e. game working for all men) by saying that it’s worked for some. Some people have cancer – that doesn’t mean all people in the world have cancer. Furthermore, the fact that many people, including myself, have tried game and received only negative results, is irrefutable evidence that the statement “Game works for all men” is false.

      >At 37 (when I first started learning this stuff) did I discover I was secretely an alpha and just didn’t know it all these years?

      Actually, that’s probably it. You’re actually pretty attractive and all you needed to do to become very popular is adjust your appearance and behavior to maximize your attractiveness.

  3. This is a strawman. What does this have to do with anything? My point is that there is nothing to test, nothing to scientifically validate in game, because “game” doesn’t exist.

    Can you see the logical flaw in this sentence?

    If I try to divide everything up into parts, I could quickly come to the conclusion that nothing exists except atoms which just happen to be randomly put together in different mannerisms.

    Mystery Method is “game”. Do you deny Mystery method exists?

    “Game” in general is a toolkit of techniques and tactics and one could disagree as to where the boundaries are between “social skills” and game.

    As for your ridiculous assertions I’ve been doing this about 4 years now. You claim to have done lots of stuff, but from your post and your illogical argumentation style, I’d say you were lying.

    • “””Can you see the logical flaw in this sentence?

      If I try to divide everything up into parts, I could quickly come to the conclusion that nothing exists except atoms which just happen to be randomly put together in different mannerisms.”””

      Another strawman 🙂 What I said was that “game” which is an ethereal unmeasurable and undefinable concept is sold alongside real concepts.

      What I said is akin to me saying “There is no such thing as the holy spirit… But this concept of a christian god is sold alongside reasonable, common-sense advice such as give charity, don’t lie, don’t steal and don’t murder”.

      Most scams are packed in together with things that give it validity. I never said that game doesn’t exist because you can break it down in parts. What I am saying is that if you break it down in parts, you realize that only SOME of those parts are real, measurable and actually common sense. The rest is fluff and filler.

    • Why should I believe Alek is lying and not gamers about their successes with women? The side that is attacking men for not being successful with women, the gamers, seem like they’re the side with something to hide.

      That being said there is one gamer I believe who is telling the truth about his success, Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Tech. His story of being a 31 year old virgin who suddenly becomes super-successful with women who now can get threesomes with his girlfriend and his girlfriend’s friends is nothing but outlandish. The only reason I believe him is because he is willing to call his fellow gamers on the carpet for their behavior in attacking men who can’t get laid. That action speaks to a man who is telling the truth because he doesn’t feel the need to attack men who aren’t successful with women. I wouldn’t be surprised if he would privately admit that game isn’t the reason for his success but some other factor.

  4. Oops. Shoudl have said arrangements or “manners” instead of mannerisms. That’s what I get for commenting on this stupid blog which doesn’t have edit features.

  5. My God:

    “Actually, that’s probably it. You’re actually pretty attractive and all you needed to do to become very popular is adjust your appearance and behavior to maximize your attractiveness.”

    This is funny as crap, when one considers that is what different schools of “game” try to teach you to do. But don’t worry, we are on an Omega’s website, so we will be told THAT NOTHING we can do will even help in the slightest.

    Really, considering all the crap W&N has taken from women in the form of false accusations you’d think he’d stick to worrying about MGTOW, which is a perfectly legitimate option. Indeed, I recommend lots of caution out there for men these days. Instead he sits here and hates on PUA’s and claims that what they do won’t work, can’t work, doesn’t even exist and yaddayaddayadda… why?

    Even if he was right (and he’s not) doing this doesn’t help him get over the damage women have done to him in the slightest. More to the point, if he’s wrong then he’s denying not only himself some potential happiness but also those of his few readers who buy 100 percent into his spiel.

    Oh well.

    • “”””so we will be told THAT NOTHING we can do will even help in the slightest.”””

      You projected that. I for example do not say such a thing. I think there’s plenty that you can do. Game is the exact opposite extreme of guys who say “you can’t do nothing, so don’t even try”.

      The snake-oil salesmen say “you can be a poor 50 year old virgin and with game you can get two threesomes with models every day with game”. That is as much of an exaggeration as saying you can’t do anything about it.

      Clarence, you’ve been sold on a lie, and you’re justifying subscribing to that lie, by comparing it to the opposite lie. That you can do anything and have absolute power to change everything about how much women you attract, is as much of a lie as that you can’t do anything.

      The truth is you have a certain capacity that you’re working with, and you can learn stuff to fullfill that capacity if you’re not using it up already. What TrueOmega meant is that you probably had underused capacity.

      • Alek:

        For all your accuasations of “strawmen” this is one of your own.
        I never claimed I have absolute power to change anything. No one does, and the biggest “natural” in the world after having studied every trick and self improvement in the world (to see if there’s anything he can do to improve) would NOT be able to pick up or have sex with every unattached or ready to cheat woman he sees even if he was rich, handsome, and powerful to boot.The internet Dark Lord, Roissy himself, says game can only improve on what is already there. He doesn’t claim someone who was an “omega” to use these simplistic terms will be banging 8’s, 9’s or 10’s anytime soon.

        That being said, unless W&N is in the lower 1 or 2 percent of men (or downright deformed like the Elephant Man) I don’t believe he has NO capacity whatsoever. Heck, for all I know W&N never gives the time of day to any girl below a “7” and I can tell you if he really is as omega as he claims he ain’t getting a “7” unless she’s drunk or he saves her life or something.

        I also like how you claim that since you’ve stopped using game your success rate has went way up. Problem is, once you learn these techniques and facts about social interactions and body language and etc. you SEE THEM EVERYWHERE even from people who’ve never heard of the concepts of game. So of course I don’t believe you, and I’d love to see a video of you randomly picking up some girl…betcha nine to one you are using some techniques taught in a bootcamp.

        And Mystery’s model of attraction phase, comfort phase, escalation phase, and seduction phase seems to play out again and again not only in my own life but those of my friends.And I’m not into the nightclub scene – I mostly do daygame. Yet still, this stuff seems to hold true. Why?

    • >This is funny as crap, when one considers that is what different schools of “game” try to teach you to do.

      They teach you to make the most of the attractive features you have. If you don’t have any attractive features, game won’t help. It’s that simple. I have repulsive looks, a complete inability to connect with people and no talents. Tell me how game can help someone like me.

      • And I quote:

        “I have repulsive looks, a complete inability to connect with people and no talents. Tell me how game can help someone like me.”

        It won’t. What are you complaining about? But look at what you just said, “I have . . . a complete inability to connect with people.” What are you complaining about? That people should automatically come and pamper you just because?

        • You’re being unfair JJ. Omega never said anything even remotely relating to that.

          Omega isn’t saying “people should go out of their way to be my friends and find me a girlfriend even though I don’t have the capacity”.

          He’s most likely saying “you game zealots should leave me the f*ck alone and stop game-shaming me”

          The problem is that guys who can’t get laid aren’t allowed to breathe alone in general society… and then when they come into the manosphere, instead of getting support, they’re told they need to “GET GAME”, shamed, insulted, mocked and derided first.

        • Okay, fair enough. I am reading too much into what he wrote. I disagree, however, with your notion that guys get shamed all the time for not having girlfriends. I’ve met older men (mostly in a religious setting) who live alone (or sublease another church member’s apartment/house) and like the Victorian spinsters they are not looked down upon. You just need to hang out with the right crowd.

        • In the context of the current discussion, I just want Clarence to admit that game works only for people who are attractive.

    • I would ask the same question of you. I’m a nobody with an unknown blog. Why do gamers come here? I have been bombarded with gamers commenting here and sending me emails about why I’m wrong about game or how I should learn game to solve my problems. What’s the point? If game is real, then you guys would be out there instead of arguing with me about it. I don’t comment on most of your guys’ blog and when I have it was very rare and I haven’t for months. You guys have to come here. Why?

      This problem isn’t just limited to me. I have to second what Alek said about this. As soon as I first admitted that I have trouble getting laid/getting a relationship with a woman I had game zealots on my neck game-shaming me. There is no point to that unless game is filled with internet keyboard warriors. This hasn’t just happened to me. It happens to lots of guys coming into the manosphere, a place where they should be getting some support. If you actually hold women responsible for their actions, the game zealots will attack you. If you think that feminism wasn’t about Rockefellers and Rothchilds and lizard ETs, the game zealots will attack you. At least two of the authors at The Spearhead are game zealots, and they have both attacked the commenters of The Spearhead for being “bitter”, “whining about women”, “misogyny”, and all of the usual crap that we hear from feminists. If they think that way about The Spearhead why do they keep coming back to write for a website they hate?

      You might try and pin this one me and my supposed “self defeatism” but I’m not the common factor here.

  6. My grandfather fought in Europe in WWII. He won a bronze star for hand-carrying messages from one end of the local front line to the other whenever that line would get severed by the Germans. This meant that he had to often confront and/or evade the enemy completely alone in order to carry that vital information.

    He got married at 18 and stayed married to my grandmother his entire life. Never strayed. Never committed adultery.

    Now, compare that Great Depression survivor and decorated WWII veteran with your average dandified, foppish PUA. Do you mean to tell me that Mystery could’ve survived such travails, let alone prevail? Hmmm ….

    My grandfather was *real*. Game and the gamers are fake. Put them both in under harsh conditions and I am certain they will buckle.

    My point is that I want to demonstrate strength of character by cultivating manly and martial virtues. How women respond to that is incidental.

    Character to me is akin to a force of nature. How does one argue with a hurricane? It just IS. And it does what it likes according to the principles that have founded it. That is how I want to be.

  7. The people who ask for money for it (game media) are no better than pimps or prostitutes.

    They exploit male sexuality.

    The difference – with game there is no guarantee that you will get sex – yet you have still spent your money.

    At least with a hooker or a pimp – there is a better guarantee that you will get laid.

  8. BAJ:

    I doubt you have 1/15th of the guts of Mystery.
    He approached (mostly unsuccessfully I might add) thousands of girls in all sorts of different places before he developed his techniques into something he could synthesize and teach. It does take balls to approach women, esp when you keep getting shot down.
    To my knowledge, he was also the first one to invent the concept of “pea cocking” or at least the first one to state it openly as a pickup technique. Imagine being the ONLY GUY in a bar or club wearing a foppish hat or face mask or whatever – don’t you think he would have drawn lots of attention, and not of the most admireable kind? Sure the girls would remember him, but they might very much remember him as the guy who got stomped while wearing a silly hat as the tall , mysterious stranger who was able to do all sorts of neat things with props.

    All pioneers are brave. Talking about men in combat (the vast majority of whom in history who have had to be drafted into it) and comparing them to civilian men who don’t even have real wars to fight, is ridiculous.

    • “To my knowledge, he was also the first one to invent the concept of “pea cocking”

      Leil Lowndes taught it before Mystery was even born. I can’t remember the term she has for it… Its some cheesy term, and many networking/dating experts have been teaching it for a long time. Back since the 60’s at least.

      There’s very little that’s original in the community aside from the labels/acronyms.

  9. “””He approached (mostly unsuccessfully I might add) thousands of girls in all sorts of different places before he developed his techniques into something he could synthesize and teach. It does take balls to approach women, esp when you keep getting shot down.”””

    You just proved my suspicions. You *are* one of those guys. Me and all my buddies always make fun of people who discover game… We actually own the biggest forum on game in my part of the world, a forum spanning 6 countries… so we still get contacted by newbie dorks who wanna “sarge” with us.

    And the joke we have running between us is “c’mon guys, time to be someone’s god AHAHAHAH”. All we literally have to do, in order to impress these people… is approach a hot girl, and get her laughing. We make fun of these guys who think that approaching a hot girl makes you some kind of a god. These guys then assume we’re some sort of gods.

    You just proved you’re one of these guys. You’re actually impressed by the fact that Mystery approached a bunch of women.

    Listen kid (I don’t care about your biological level). Get at least a 1000 approaches under your belt, and apply game for at least 3-4 years (you don’t have to do my 10 years or 10,000 approaches)….

    When you do that, come back to me, and argue game. Right now you’re an “internet strongman” arguing about things he read online. Get the experience under the belt, then come back to discuss this stuff with adults.

    You really lost any credibility when you compared approaching women with a world war 2 veteran… Just disgusting….

    • Alek:

      Since I think you are a fraud, I have no desire to interact with you further.

      And something done with one’s free will is always tougher to do when one is compelled to do it.

      You’ll note that I didn’t compare things between a volunteer soldier or a mercenary and a certain person.

      You lost all your credability by making arguments I never made and ascribing them to me. Ultimately courage is about overcoming fear. I’ve been in the army. I doubt you have, so go suck some eggs and some dick.

      • You proved the point of this post. You use the argumentation of a religious zealot. Because I have given you evidence that is contradictory to your faith, I must be lying, a fraud, making stuff up.

        And then you ended the post with an insult 🙂

        These kinds of blogs will be here, go out and apply this stuff for 3-4 years, and come back. Then you’ll have more of a leg to stand on, but right now, you’re just another game zealot. I say this as an ex-zealot, so it doesn’t mean you’re a bad person, you’re just currently in that phrase.

        You do realize in the time you took to argue with me, you could have gone out and actually tested all this game stuff you been reading on a good 20 women in daygame? So go out, test this stuff out, thoroughly, and prove to yourself it works, before you argue with others who dare question your religion. Prove your religion to yourself first before you go evangelizing.

  10. “tougher than when” is what I meant.

    My point is, you moral infant, you don’t get to automatically ascribe bravery to people who were compelled to do something. I know this over your head, though.

    When you grow up, talk to me.

    • I don’t get it. Where does this guy Clarence come from? Has he ever posted on this blog before? I mean, if by “game” you mean knowledge of female psychology or general social skills of course it’s going to help you to approach women. Is it going to work all the time? Of course not. I think one problem many people have against the “game” theory is that it assumes all women are going to fall for it, so that even if (and I quote someone who just blogged here on this page) one has “repulsive looks, a complete inability to connect with people and no talents” one can still get some action provided one go through the same PUA motions mechanically. Sorry to break this to you but this is probably not going to cut it for most women.

      • Very good point.

        That’s the funny part. How do you separate general psychology, general advice on basic social skills, confidence and social calibration from game?

        If you take out that stuff from game-theory, what do you have left? You’re left with the option of “faking it”. That is reproducing the behaviors of confidence, without actually being it. The whole idea that you can perform confidence, and mechanically reproduce the actions of an alpha, without being one.

        And if you do choose to actually internalize it (not fake it anymore), then that’s not game, but general common sense and psychology.

        So in essence, the only things in game that are original are a scam, and the only things that aren’t a scam are already common sense knowledge, part of other disciplines or filler.

  11. But that’s true with self-help in general, no? In way, wouldn’t you say game is basically a form of self-help? We truly live in a degenerate age . . .

  12. @JJ: Totally agree! Wouldn’t the countless success-through-a-positive-mental-attitude style books serve just as well as game?

    Furthermore, if the whole idea of game is to build confidence, why not start by doing something challenging? Like, oh, I dunno, learning a valuable and difficult skill? I mean, its easy to “score”, for a while, until this annoying thing called reality creeps in and reveals that you’re a phony.

    • “Furthermore, if the whole idea of game is to build confidence, why not start by doing something challenging? Like, oh, I dunno, learning a valuable and difficult skill? ”

      Because they no longer have a product/seminar/bootcamp to sell.

      If a product on “game” was honest, it would be 1 page long, and it would say:

      =============================
      – Become GOOD at something, master a few hobbies or so
      – Build huge social circles and master networking
      – Understand female psychology by reading female romance novels, female magazines and evo-psych books
      – Realize that women aren’t worth so much, and focus on yourself, and then only talk to women as if they were “doods with boobs”… Let them do the pursuing.
      =============================

      That’s pretty much it. The rest of those products are filler. But… you can’t charge insane amounts for 1-page products that direct you to other things 🙂 You have to sell a need.

      There was a good article within the seduction community itself a few years back, and it talked about how the marketing has turned from “fulfilling a need” to “creating needs”.

      Instead of fulfilling the need of “how do I get confidence to talk to women”. It has now turned into convincing you that you have needs that you didn’t even know you had, and now we have products and seminars and techniques to fulfill those needs.

      If the guys like clarence who never did pay for anything, don’t realize that most crap in the community IS create for commercial purposes and by marketing agents. Its designed to create customers and perpetually unfilled voids that can only be filled by products.

  13. Wait…hold up, Clarence, you are saying that Mystery, Roissy et al are braver than a Bronze Star winner?!!

    You do know that such awards are given to soldiers who go above and beyond the call of duty…in other words, they voluntarily risked their lives when in a situation where such behaviour was not compulsory.

    Love game all you want Clarence but the rise of Mystery in his silly top hat is a sign of the degeneracy of our age.

  14. Alek, you make a lot of sense and I’m glad I read what you have said.The problem is I think is with the definition of game. If you define game as techniques and pickup lines, then no game doesn’t exist, as that’s just acting and not real. However if you define game as confidence and social skills, then yes game exists, this is where definitions get tricky.

    In my opinion, I think REAL game, not the game advertised by pick up artists, but instead based on psychology consists of three things, which are:

    1. INNER GAME aka confidence. How do you get confidence? You get confidence by doing things that are challenging and succeeding. This can be learning an instrument, losing weight, developing good habits and getting rid of bad habits. Alphas usually have this by default since birth, while Betas and Omegas need to develop this from within.

    2. OUTER GAME aka social skills. How do you get social skills? By talking to people you hardly know on a basic level and by talking to people you know well on a deep level. By learning the body language, tone and social rules necessary to be seen as a social person. Alphas usually develop great social skills at a very young age as a result of their innate social dominance, while some betas and most omegas need to learn how to do this from a much older age due to being shy and lacking social dominance.

    3. LOOKS. Obviously how good you look is going to limit you on what women you can attract, which is usually a woman equal or lower to your looks, unless you have a high level of inner and outer game to back it up.

    I know this is true for a fact, I have improved my inner game substantially and noticed more attention from women because it is at a level that is above average. I improved my inner game by learning how to play musical instruments, losing weight, overcoming addiction, and learning to become a more disciplined person. However, my outer game is below average, even though it has improved slightly through the years, so that is what is holding me back at the moment.

    Thank you Alek for making me realize something I already suspected, which is that the best way to improve outer game is by improving social skills and expanding your social network as opposed to learning canned pick up lines and scripted techniques.

    • How do you get confidence? You get confidence by doing things that are challenging and succeeding.

      There are many examples in my life where I have done something challenging and have succeeded. Going from a corporate job to being self-employed is one of the latest and with that I have been more successful than I thought possible. Yet succeeding at challenging things has not helped with women whatsoever.

      • Yes, then you have the same problem as me because you have strong inner game (confidence), but your outer game is weak (social skills). Inner game does help a lot with women, but you’ll need to have strong social skills or good looks to show it. How else would the women know you have high confidence if you aren’t able to demonstrate it with social skills or they don’t give you a chance because you’re not good looking. This is why inner and outer game are two completely different things.

        In my opinion, I think you’ll need at least two of the three ingredients above to attract women. If you only have one, then you will not be able to attract them. So if you have above average looks then you can get away with just having inner or outer game. If you have strong inner and outer game then you can get away with below average looks. Yes, women are picky, but that’s hypergamy for you.

        Outer game just comes from your ability to communicate with people and that includes both men and women, which is basically social skills. Obviously some people are a lot better at this than others and some are a lot worse than others, but I think everyone can learn to improve social skills if they work at it.

        • If you took women out of the equation no one would say I have weak social skills. And if there’s some special “social skills that apply only to dealing with women” how am I supposed to get them if women want nothing to do with me in the first place?

          It’s just another reason why game is a degenerate religion.

        • Alek did add some good points to your response, but I’d like to add more. It’s like Alek said, when it comes to talking with guys, you can get away with average social skills and they’ll treat you with a decent amount of respect. However for women, you’ll need extraordinary social skills to be even given an modicum of respect. However, on the other hand, if you are good looking, you can get away with average social skills because you have that has compensation.

          This is why, I said that you need to be strong at two of the three areas of game: inner game, outer game, and looks. You can be weak in one if two are strong, but if you’re weak on two and strong only one, you’re completely out of luck. Confidence and social skills are not what I’d call game in the psychological sense, that I’d call pickup, which you use use pickup lines and canned routines to give the illusion of outer game aka social skills.

          So you have a choice, either improve looks as much as possible in the manner that Workshy Joe did or improve social skills to the extent Alek said. If you want, you can improve your confidence further by taking on more challenges, but this is unnecessary without outer game or looks to back it up. It’s your choice, you can improve yourself and work extremely hard in hopes of getting at least one woman, or you can just say forget it, it’s not worth the effort, I’ll just focus on myself without caring about women aka MGTOW, which ironically will make you more attractive, lol.

      • @White&Nerdy

        Notice that this is only one of the components. Life confidence itself doesn’t make you attractive/appealing to women. Its the combination of all the factors, and especially in what context the confidence was won.

        To give you a (silly) example, if one becomes the most elite world-of-warcraft winner, it doesn’t spill over into the kind of confidence that makes women treat you differently.

        Mostly it has to do with confidence related to things that raise your self-perception of social status. For example succeeding at mastering the guitar, successfully losing weight or building a ripped physique… Even though women can’t see the physique below the clothes, you will act differently having that confidence.

        If you finish a course in advanced yoga, you will walk and talk differently. Same if you master let’s say a bunch of different dancing styles.

        But again, this is just one component. The other components are:

        – Social skills
        – Not giving a *fyck* what women think or want
        – “Getting” female psychology (and reading romance novels and girl’s forums gives you 1000x more insight than any game product)

        I know you think you don’t give a fyck about what women think or want with you… But I am 99% certain that at some level you do, if women still find faults with you, try to pin down sexual harassment crap on you… etc. The moment you start seeing women as “doods with boobs”. That is, you’re not very impressed by them, and simply sighting a female does nothing… their attitude changes entirely.

        If you see hot 20 year olds differently than 55 year olds… then, (for reasons I won’t go into), that causes women to get defensive and sexually protective.

    • @random. Very good points.

      And also, that is my point. If “game” is merely confidence+social skills, then why use the term game? Because its a marketing term to sell crap to guys and a way to shame guys.

      I agree with white&nerdy. Game will be on the list of shaming techniques in a few years.

      • Thanks, and I like the deeper insight you have given into inner and outer game. I think all guys need to realize the reality of what women want, and like you stated pickup is not the answer. The answer comes from within by generating confidence and externally by improving social skills.

  15. Everything is a false religion except the worship of one true God. Pursuit of money, fame, power, and success are all false religions. Some people act as if education is a religion. Knowledge is their God. Get an education youg man! Get a good college education and you are guaranteed success in life! NOT. Many college graduates today face a mountain of student loan debt and no serious job offers. Life is confusing for young people today since the advice of many of their elders is useless or worse. Is it any wonder than many young men have a eureka moment when they discover game? Halelujah! Game is the answer. Much of what I had been taught about women was nothing but pretty white lies. Game is the solution, the path to enlightenment, our salvation; until it isn’t. Game like all earthly pursuits is vanity. The pursuit of money, success, fame, knowledge, and even earthly love are all vanity in the end. You end up as dirt no matter how great your game was or how rich you were. So why even get up in the morning? Because we have a lot of work to due for a purpose greater than ourselves, and that purpose endures long after each of us is gone and the ultimate aim is glorious. Back on earth young people are confused and struggling as they deal with a faltering civilization. Middle class family formation will be beyond reach for many of them. Game contains many truths that are ancient. These truths about human desires were forgotten in a society that was largely monogamous, but the sad truth about human nature is revealed more and more each year. A wise young man would use the truths contained in game to build a better life. I wish I had known about game as a young man. Turning game into a religion would be a tragic mistake.

    • Even though I’m not a religious person as I’m a spiritual person, I find a lot of what you say is true. You could say that I’m that young man learning about the world around me. I agree that education isn’t the ticket to success, but it is a stepping stone, like they say a bachelor degree is the new high school diploma. I think loans are not the best way to pay for an education and it’s better to be independent and pay school through your part-time work and do school part-time to be able to afford it.

      You mention that game, defined as the knowledge of what women want and not as pickup does help. I’m happy to be young in the information age, where people can gain a lot of knowledge and insight about themselves and others. However, one also has to be guarded against the lies that spread from the information age that is mixed in with the truth. You seem very wise and experienced in life, thank you for your post.

  16. I know I might get some people thinking I’m full of shit, but the quickest way to boost inner and out game (confidence and social skills) is to refrain from masturbation for an extended period of time. I know this is true because I’ve done this myself, I noticed a higher level of confidence and my social skills improved. Women found me more attractive and treated me differently.

    Instead of saying I’m wrong, why not try it and see what happens? Try to go to one month without masturbating and watching porn and see if you notice a difference in how you feel and how women treat you. Even refraining from it for one or two weeks, you will notice a big difference. A lot of men don’t realize that by masturbating to porn they weaken themselves mentally, and even by masturbating without porn they become less attractive to women and less motivated to meet them.

    This is a good alternative to learning game and doesn’t require time and effort, other than having self discipline. Even if you fail with women after trying this experiment, you’ll still have a lot more energy and drive to help you accomplish other things in life.

    • @Non-masturbation idea

      I’m guessing you’ve only recently tried it? Most such things seem like THE solution when you first try them, but… over time they stop working, since it was placebo to begin with.

      I’ve done it, and so have 5 of my friends. Mine was 2-3 months at a time, and one of my friends went even more hardcore. In the end it stops making a difference eventually.

      • Well, that’s discouraging lol. My goal is to masturbate one a month until my body gets used to it. I guess your point is it stops making a difference because your body adapts to it. However, I tried once a week and noticed that I had low confidence and weak social skills every first day after, and high confidence and strong social skills by the end, and the cycle repeated…

        I’m guessing if I do it once a month, it would be the same thing buy expanded, low confidence and weak social skills every first day after, and high confidence and strong social skills by the end. I think abstaining for longer than a month isn’t a good idea, because then your body gets used to it and it stops making a difference, just a thought. This is probably what happened to you and your friends.

        • LOL, I did that above post, I must be very sleep deprived to put your name Alek instead of mine.

        • You took my name 😀 hahaha

          But yah… I think the reason it works initially is because of the confidence boost that you get for having accomplished something new.

          Once you’ve been doing it for a while, its no longer a confidence boost. So its not the non-masturbation that gives u that result… its the self-disciplining yourself into something new.

          Once the novelty wears off and you’re used to not-masturbating, then it no longer has a magical value, its just one of many things you’ve mastered in the past.

          I’m not saying to not do it. In fact, do it precisely for that. Because it does give a *small* confidence boost permanently. I’m just saying that the huge boost is only temporary… and there’s no need to keep doing it for life.

        • Yeah you’re right, because when I did it once a week for months, the confidence boost started to lose its effect, even though it’s worth doing just for the increased energy and improved social skills. Though, I’ll definitely not go back to doing it daily because I noticed I become very lazy and had little desire to meet women. I think the best thing to do is do it once a week, once every two weeks or once a month, so you can maintain some level of energy and drive to meet women. Trying to quit completely is pointless unless you’re a monk lol.

  17. Reading girl novels?
    I mean, really? generally they are about unrealistic sets of events, knights in shiny armor… not the best to understand female psychology. serioulsy.

    Disney’s cute stories about how you should be the nice guy to a girl are one of many reasons guys in general are clueless about what women REALLY want (and that’s great sex and a strong man, my friends).

    Now, I’d have to say that PUA is laid in very solid foundations, that is, inner game and outer game. I understand that most of the canned material is total bull, but when you are a begginer you won’t even know WHAT to say to a woman, ye know? canned helps loads in this matter, since some guys never had the minimum interaction with women.

    by definition, EVERYTHING in game can be divided in these two groups: INNER and OUTER game.

    the goal here is to build a life, that is, you must improve yourself as a whole and be a real man, a strong man, and women will then see you in a sexual way. plus, you must treat them in a way that they know you are.

    You guys can be really really intelligent, and you might’ve heard someone saying that intelligence is sexy to women. In fact, it is. but you don’t convey that showing her how to solve a triple trigonometric integration hehe you show her your SOCIAL skills, your SOCIAL intelligence, and THAT can also be attained, trained, w/e. I truly do believe it. But you MUST try, and try HARD.

    No offense, but I read so much negativity on the comments, you know? guys saying that girls don’t want them and that’s it. These are the lyrics from a song from Blaze, it’s called Faceless Man:

    “If you think you’re beaten
    You will be beaten down
    If you think you’re losing
    You have lost it all”

    think about it. it’s not about GAME per se, it’s about improving yourself.

    • “””I mean, really? generally they are about unrealistic sets of events, knights in shiny armor… not the best to understand female psychology. serioulsy.”””

      Actually… 99.999% of all romance novels involve a guy who’s a complete JERK who doesn’t give a fvck about the woman when she initially meets her. He pumps and dumps her, and she spends the rest of the novel pursuing him and trying to get him to show any kind of an emotion.

      He’s free spirited, on his purpose, a rogue and a free spirit. He only sees women as sex objects who try to prevent him from reaching his goals and his purpose in life. He’s cocky, abrasive… and very occasionally shows a gentle side… a mere glimpse, which the women use to convince themselves that they can reform him.

      “””Disney’s cute stories about how you should be the nice guy to a girl are one of many reasons guys in general are clueless about what women REALLY want (and that’s great sex and a strong man, my friends).”””

      Wtf? Lol… Romance novels… not disney cartoons. Romance novels have more sex scenes, violence, guts and glory than an average male-flick.

  18. @White&Nerdy:

    “”If you took women out of the equation no one would say I have weak social skills. “”

    Trouble is this… Women are insane in their requirements of social skills. For women to even treat you like a human being, they require that you have super-advanced social skills.

    I’m not exaggerating. Women actually think that having the suaveness of a James Bond is a normal thing, and that you’re even a bit less suave, smooth, and resonant, that you’re “creepy”…

    So let me ask you this… Can you walk up to and befriend random guys in a club? Be honest. Can you go into a club, tonight, walk up to random guys and make them buddies, to where they invite you to parties and ask you to play pool with them. Can you do this every night?

    Because see, women actually require THAT level of social confidence, to even treat you like a normal human being. I’m using the guy example, because it has nothing to do with women.

    That’s number 1… And then number 2 is not giving a fyck about women. If women still treat you the way you describe, its because you still care what they think. I can claim this with 99% certainty. I was where you’re at… I had days when I shouted “WTF, was I hitler in a past life!?!? Why do random women hate me so much!! Have I done something wrong to all of womanhood!?!? What’s wrong!!!” This went on for years… and years and years without a change…

    So I know full well where you’re at, and that its not set in stone, only extremely hard to change. NOTE: I’m not saying you need to change. That would be game bullshit. I support you if you decide women aren’t worth the effort. Heck I don’t know if I’d do all that crap if I had to go through it again, women treating you well isn’t worth the effort. But let’s just be honest that its not set in stone, its just unrealistically huge amounts of work… and there’s no “magic” to it, and no “game”.

  19. I’ve posted earlier how Game is basically Lysenkoism. The whole point of evopsych is to show how human behavior is largely deterministic. And not changeable by “hard work”, “believing in yourself”, or “giving it all you got”. PUA very much accepts this for women, but men are self-creating. Now its not about men being “better” or “smarter” than women, so men can change their natures and women can’t. That misses the whole point. IF you really do believe in a biological human nature, which PUA must, then you can’t just change it by willing it. And while the Game “theory” might say we can mimic alpha male behaviors and thus “trick” women’s hardwiring, what is Game in practice? Painting your nails, fortune telling, peacocking? Hardly paleolithic cavemen.

  20. What is game?

    Life is a game. Our only purpose is to play.

    You speak of inner game?

    There’s the game where you play at being a strong alpha male, great with women.

    Then there’s the game where you play at being a sad sack of shit.

    Oh man, alpha male’s got a great strong inner game. He won’t let anyone break his frame that he’s amazing with women.

    Sad sack of shit game is hella strong too. I mean, sad sack of shit’s got this unbreakable frame where he truly believes he’s a sad sack of shit, and won’t let anyone break his frame.

    What do these two dudes have in common. Regardless of what anyone else tells them, they believe in their reality. They reject those who would refute their claims of who they are, and only accept those who accept their frame.

    In other words, they’re still playing the same game.

    If you really want a real inner game change, here’s what you do.

    1) Figure out what the fuck you want to be.
    2) Live life according to how you believe said person behaves.
    3) Reject that which does not accept the role you’re playing.
    4) Keep doing this, and eventually your reality will reflect your beliefs.

    That’s it.

  21. Pingback: I’m No Longer The Roissysphere Gamer’s Devil | The Black Pill

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