143 comments on “A Lot Of Truth

  1. David´s situation is clearly a product of feminism + some unfortunate traits of himself.

    He focused on saying his situation is not fair and that he´s getting no sympathy, the more he projects that energy, the worse he gets abandoned.

    So, he´s right about being angry. If he was a girl going to HUS and was saying that all men are cheaters and that she has been hurt, there would be a supportive pool of women and men trying to sort her problems out. But he is a guy, a guy whining and saying he is weak. So he gets the axe. I get it.

    Thing is, thats how things are. Its been always like this. Even before feminism, and his whining isnt helping his cause, nor is helping anything. David can do other stuff, besides whining, to improve his situation, but it has to start by standing up for himself.

    We´re biased against whine men, even when they are right. Since thats how things are, whatchagonado?

    • There’s a difference between not getting laid (and whining about it) and getting ignored and promoting a philosphy that effectively says men should be put into concentration camps for not getting laid because they’re ‘useless’ to women. What is going on is the latter and not the former. If it was just the former than David should just deal. But it’s not. He and other guys like him such as myself are living with a constant threat to our freedom just because women find us to be ‘useless’.

      • the segment of feminism which portraits men as garbage is committing hate speech. media is too dumb or too corrupt to point it out but it would be so obvious if was about putting women in concentration camps for being fat

        hate speech is a crime. those fuckers should serve jail time.

    • Thing is, thats how things are. Its been always like this.

      The first thing he should do is ignore stupid lies.

      3000 years ago, if you chose to ignore David, and mock him, he might, for example, decide to drive a spear through you and your wife and your children.

      This would adjust your attitude in a most impressive and final way.

        • And he would be better off too. A short life of misery is better than a long life of misery. Such a society would be more honest and economically viable. People like David and I are prohibited from contributing to society in most areas by social ostracizm, and me, I’ve pretty much given up on contributing to society anyway. But we still consume resources and take up space, all the while being miserable, lonely and hated. Is it not better let people like us be killed off early?

        • Uh, your one of those ‘tards who thinks the ability to game women makes you a better fighter.

          In theory, no, in practice, no.

        • nope. I said that because he was portraying himself weak + whiny = easy pray for predators

          success with women is a result of your alphaness, there is a tie, but im not saying that being bad with women = death
          but that being weak = death

  2. Excellent article.
    Perhaps the best I have ever seen.

    To the omega virgin I would say:Keep your virginity.
    I have bedded perhaps 15 or 20 women in my 47 years and I can tell you I REGRET each and very one of them.

    This regret takes years to settle in, but it does come with age and maturity.

    Not to mention the STD rate is so high a man would be insane to have sex with a woman with a past and that he knew he could not keep “till death do us part.”

  3. Wow. I am impressed with this post.

    I’ll back you up on this. That was the conclusion about game that I came to a while ago.

    It basically forces a man to modify himself in order to appease women. The main flaw is this – you are changing yourself (dehumanizing yourself) just for women?

    How come women are never expected to do the same?

    f**k em.

    • I’ll back you up on this. That was the conclusion about game that I came to a while ago.

      It basically forces a man to modify himself in order to appease women. The main flaw is this – you are changing yourself (dehumanizing yourself) just for women?

      How come women are never expected to do the same?

      And that’s even assuming it actually works 😀 One of the things I’m saving up money for is to issue a challenge to all the gamers. I want to make a public fancy experiment where we pit gamers against random nobodies.

      I bet you I’ll prove they’ll both get the same results. You just give me 10 days to get the regular guys to approach as many women as possible to overcome the anxiety.

      After that, they can go approach women anyway they want, and the ratio between random guys will be the same as “gamers”.

      Hey, I don’t expect gamers will take my challenge. They’ll come up with a bunch of excuses to refuse partaking in it, but I’ll grill them publically and mock them until they take part.

      • I believe “Game” does exist, at least in the sense that it’s an accurate assessment of the character traits a woman finds attractive in a man (assertiveness, confidence, social skills, independence etc.). Basically, it’s what most western men were like 100 years ago, before feminism and political correctness emasculated them.

        Men who have those traits, or who are able to develop them, will be more attractive to women than the men who don’t have them. (You could say that’s more like “common sense” than “Game” per se, but whatever.)

        Re: “I bet you I’ll prove they’ll both get the same results. You just give me 10 days to get the regular guys to approach as many women as possible to overcome the anxiety.

        After that, they can go approach women anyway they want, and the ratio between random guys will be the same as “gamers”. ”

        Most of what “Game” gurus teach is focused on helping men overcome anxiety and insecurity, so that they’ll be able to approach lots of women without being nervous, or worrying about rejection, or coming across as needy or desperate.

        Any guy who can do that will get phone numbers and dates and will eventually get laid. It’s not that hard.

        • Most of what “Game” gurus teach is focused on helping men overcome anxiety and insecurity, so that they’ll be able to approach lots of women without being nervous, or worrying about rejection, or coming across as needy or desperate.

          That’s not true. What most game gurus teach is focused on confusing you and overcomplicating a simple thing so that you keep coming back to them to buy more products and seminars, to solve a problem they themselves created in you.

          If a guru simply told you “DUDE push yourself to approach 200 women, anyway you want” -> you don’t need him anymore.

          That’s why he invents 345234 theories on the exact ways to say or do something. Like a 50 page explanation of how she says this, and it really means this, and now you gotta display your assertiveness by doing this other thing… bla bla bla.

        • In fact, gurus create more anxiety then they solve. They sell you on the idea that you must have just the right X, and if you don’t have Y and Z while trying to perform A, but without too much B = your status will plumment and you must recover it by doing ABC… bla bla bla…

          Truth is… If you simply push yourself to escalate a few hundred times, anyway you want, you’re done. You can outperform like 99% of the online “game evangelists”… The same ones who come here to bash WN… because they’ve been reading game-theories for the past 4 years, but have yet to even approach 10 women.

          And here’s what my experiment would prove.

          There is no difference between “game”, and simple “social calibration”. The kind you get by just hitting on 200 women… Period.

          And if there is no difference, how do they justify the 50000 pages of keyboard jockeying on the subject?

  4. I prefer Susan Walsh’s other blog: Drunk Driving Safely, but anyway… yes, PMAFT nailed her exactly when he pointed out her comments on male students. She first complained that male students were cluttering up student health services then, when someone sane pointed out that men have as much right to use health facilities as women, she reversed course and claimed that , of course, she wanted men to be healthy….. otherwise they wouldn’t be fit for men to marry.

    Well, why else would a man exist?

  5. Whites showed this resistance to blacks during the abolition movement. And now women have their own institution: game. That someone laid out the steps men take to accepting their sexual enslavement – and touts this as their only and best option – makes me want to puke on every man and woman I see.

    Game = Tricks and techniques to get your master to feed you more often and not whip you so often 😀 😀

  6. The thread/comments you linked at Keoni Galt’s blog are disturbing to me on so many levels. Is this what I have to look forward to going forward in life as my 30th approaches? A bunch of “adults” whose mentality still resembles that of some pathetic high school clique, sitting around discussing who’s cool enough to be invited to the party, so to speak? Really reminds me of the song “Cool Kids” by Screeching Weasel.

    there’s a real cool club on the other side of town
    where the real cool kids go
    to sit around
    and talk bad about the other kids
    yea it’s a real cool club and you’re
    not part of it
    there’s millie, pickles and pattycakes too
    and cubby’s making mean jokesa about you
    ha ha ya little twist
    yea it’s a real cool club and you’re not part of it
    they’re a real cool bunch of die
    fledermausketeers
    and they’ll laugh at the toughskins
    your mom got you from sears
    you dork they’ll never let you in
    cause it’s a real cool club and you’re not part of it
    you’re fat and ugly and
    an imbecile too
    and that’s why the draw funny pictures of you
    and talk bad about all the kids
    cause it’s a real cool club and you’re not a part of it
    yea it’s a real cool club and you’ll never be a part of it

  7. I find it funny how David changed his demeanor after he stopped being angry. It’s like he became more accepting of what Susan Walsh and others were telling him. I think the real truth is somewhere in between what David said and Susan said. While it’s true that women have been known to do horrendous things to men that are not emotionally attractive. However I’m sure the majority of men here have at least brushed one nice intelligent women aside solely for the fact that she was physically unattractive.

    • First of all, no, I haven’t brushed aside any nice or intelligent women, because I’ve never had any interest from any women. Or does “brush aside” mean “did not approach”? Well, yeah, then I guess I’m guilty – I pass by hundreds of women without ever talking to them. A number of them I don’t find physically attractive. Among those some are bound to be nice and intelligent.

      Second, even if a nice and intelligent but physically unattractive woman would approach me, I’d avoid her. Not because she’s physically unattractive but because I don’t want a relationship – I know I’m going to either be dumped for a better man or end up in an unhappy relationships with her wanting a better man. Why would I get together with a woman if I couldn’t possibly satisfy her?

      • Or does “brush aside” mean “did not approach”? Well, yeah, then I guess I’m guilty – I pass by hundreds of women without ever talking to them. A number of them I don’t find physically attractive. Among those some are bound to be nice and intelligent.

        Some feminist was arguing with me once, claiming that dorky girls get rejected and brushed aside all the time… On further inquiry, it turns out that her definition included the dorky girl having to watch her hotter friend be asked out or approached.

        I lol-ed. I basically took her argument and brought it to its absurd conclusion. So basically, I pass by a random 200 women in my normal day. Does that mean I reject 200 girls a day? OMG I’ve rejected and brushed aside 73,000 women THIS YEAR alone!

        But yeah… Women have the luck/unluck of either being approached and hit on a lot, or being approached and hit on moderately much.

        • The idea that men ignore nice girls is one that is always passed around so that the “hot” girls can justify turning down a good guy.
          A good guy is told he is “wrong” for wanting a hot girl, while a player is never wanting for such attention.
          Then the good guy is told that if he wants a hot girl he has an attitude problem, while the player who doesn’t consider any girl he is with worth taking seriously… is said to be the better guy.
          Then the girl angrily denounces the nice guy and tries to get him to become angry so that she can justify her rejection “He’s an angry guy, that’s why I’m not with him.”
          What she’s really saying: “He’s an angry guy I’m not interested in, that’s why I’m not with him.”
          And if he doesn’t get angry “He’s a creep, that’s why I’m not with him”.
          What she’s really saying “He’s a creep I’m not interested in, that’s why I’m not with him.”
          The whole idea of women saying that good guys have rejected many girls in the past is projection – because they have done plenty, and in many cases are very morally inferior to the guys they reject, they cannot accept this reality of themselves and their deficient character.
          So, the guy is to blame. What else is new?

        • “Hot” here is in quote marks, because, as the players and sluts circulate (and the sluts are the girls that are not conventionally “hot” but think that they are since they get sexual attention from the players and nothing more, but confuse that with a real relationship)…
          Therefore the girls that would _normally_ have been with a stable guy is thinking and pining for the player who left her, while saying the normal guy (who should have the brains not to bother with her in the first place, as she is probably STD-riddled but too many guys are nice to their detriment) – is a creep.
          The player manages to trade up, since the sluts enable him, and he finally gets a girl who is slavishly devoted to him… while the good guy ends up with a slut who only wants him as a back-up plan. Cue cleanout via divorce, cuckoldry, STD infection or dealing with mental abuse.
          THAT is why nice guys (including the omega virgins), to preserve their sanity, had best just only ask the hottest girls out.
          It is no point bothering with banged out sluts who see you as the backup plan.
          Act accordingly, men who wish to preserve their sanity, wealth and health…
          P.S. substitute slut for “sexually empowered young woman in delusion of her own attractiveness because she is being pumped and soon to be dumped by a player when he trades up”.
          That’s the reality of why the good stable men, are being left out of the “relationship market”.
          It doesn’t look like it is their fault, now, does it?

        • You are brushing them off when you pass by them in the street BUT
          Approaching when you are not welcome is harassment.

          Welcome to Chick Logic, please let your head explode.

        • You are brushing them off when you pass by them in the street BUT
          Approaching when you are not welcome is harassment.

          Welcome to Chick Logic, please let your head explode.

          Here’s how they rationalize it…

          – When she calls it harassment, its because you approached her uninvited, she didn’t give you the sign.
          – When she calls it brushing off, its because she gave you the sign, and wanted you to approach her

          NOW GET THIS… The sign that means “approach me” is her shifting 3 degrees more to the left foot than the right, and slightly bowing her head, and blinking 2 times longer, while looking in your general direction… Not at YOU, but in your GENERAL direction.

          And well, how are you supposed to differentiate from the “don’t ever talk to me” sign? Well, you dork, its a full 0.1 miliseconds different! I mean come on, this is basic. Don’t you know a blink of 0.001 miliseconds is “don’t talk to me” and 0.0002 miliseconds is “come and talk to me”. How can you not know this? Sheesh, you men are such retards.

          Now,when you grill women on this, you get them to reveal how dumb their thinking is… Women often have to admit to me (when I get them to spell it out), how dumb their “signs” are…

          But here’s one additional con-founder… EVERY WOMAN HAS A DIFFERENT SIGN 😀 And yet, you’re supposed to “know” when she means “don’t approach me” or “do approach me”… And if you don’t perform as an exact dancing monkey, well, they you are evil.

      • to that mess, add that if you are approaching a girl without her asking you to do it, you are actually harassing her.

        so these little dorky girls are really upset that nobody harasses them

        wait, not “nobody”, just upset the hot guys dont harass them. if a non hot guy approaches her, thats still unwanted harassment

        we gotta bring some intelligence here, they seem to have none

    • I just wanted to add that I was talking about brushing off unattractive nice intelligent women that actually approached you or you asked out and then dumped because she wasn’t good looking enough. I’d put that on the same level of a women dumping or rejecting a male for not being alpha enough, even though it happens far more often for women.

      • Yeah, and that happens so often… NOT.
        Women know they are taking a huge social risk doing the asking, afterall, they know what they would do to a guy “not meeting their standards”.
        Destroy his reputation through relational aggression…
        “Hey, you know what, that creepy loser just asked me out, of course I turned him down! Now that hunk over there, if he asked me out I would be so over the moon! But he needs to ask because I’m a traditional girl, and I want him to want me sincerely!”

  8. THAT is why nice guys (including the omega virgins), to preserve their sanity, had best just only ask the hottest girls out. It is no point bothering with banged out sluts who see you as the backup plan.

    I’ve always found it funny when guys are told to “lower their criteria” and then they won’t get rejected so much.

    That’s soooo unreal and a way to mask the reality of male life. Being a man is a life of rejection no matter whom you pursue. Anyone who’s ever pursued less-attractive women knows… its BS.

    Its not like you approach an unattractive woman and she’s like “OMG THANK YOU FOR ASKING ME OUT!!! OMG OMG!!!!!!!”… No, they play the same games, they’re just as picky etc… etc.

    With unattractive girls… maybe you get 8 rejections from every 10 attempts… instead of the 9 rejections for every 10 attempts at hot girls… But its still a series of rejections.

    • Actually the unattractive girls are probably going to be worse for a few reasons:
      1. They think that sex with the alpha = a relationship. How dare you ask for a relationship when you are not as good as the alpha who is playing hide the sausage with her?
      2. To agree to a relationship with you would mean that the “relationship” with the alpha is easily changed. No, she is a loyal girl in a “relationship” with a “loyal” man. How dare you!
      3. She is standing up for “the sisterhood” by making sure the “creepy” “worthless” guys don’t get a chance to improve their image so that they can dump her after they have already gotten “the one thing men want from women”. Of course, Mr. Alpha is not that type of person, he simply had a bad childhood, is going through a tough time or is misunderstood.
      4. How would she look to the other women when her standards drop so low? She’s in a “relationship” with Mr. Alpha, and throws that all away to be with a “loser”?
      5. Remember that most women have the “friends” and “boyfriends” categories for men. “Friends” are expected to agree with everything the woman says.
      6. Further, if you are the “unwanted” man, she will tell you “You need to respect me more than a normal human being”.

      • And, not to worry, your “audacity” of trying to break up a “happy relationship” between the girl and her alpha, will be promptly reported back to the sisterhood, so that they too can learn that you are a “loser”.
        In sum, for the man wanting a relationship: if you are going to be relationally aggressed against, why spend that one opportunity on making the first step in a relationship, on an ugly girl?
        Ask the hot one out instead.
        The bad result, if it occurs, is a given for both… so ask out the hotter one, at least the risk-reward differential is smaller.

        • I don’t understand the logic you are trying to convey here of asking out a hot girl or a hotter one. Your logic is basically well if all girls are equally vile to all men that aren’t alphas, then you might as well ask out all hot girls that way at least the rejection would make sense.

          LOL, that’s ridiculous man and I’m sure you know it too. To me the logical thing to do is ask out a woman based on qualities outside of her looks that you find appealing. You’ll be asking out the woman based on who she really is and in the end that’s what’s most important in the relationship.

          In the process, You would end up asking women that range from average to very hot, and will probably have a higher success rate than asking out ugly women that may or may not get along with you. Asking out solely hot women is a pretty pointless strategy unless you’re an alpha.

    • Yah, but my main point was this…

      That whole routine is a way of masking the reality of female-privilege… They get to have the other-side bear the rejections.

      If women acknowledged just how much crap a man puts up with in the process, they’d have no more excuse to hold on to their privilege.

      So this is why they have to hide the privilege, by shaming guys who call it out. If a guy points out the amount of rejection and crap a man puts up with -> he’s made to feel like its HIM. Its not that men put up with crap… No, its HIM. He did something wrong. He must be defunct in someway if he isn’t getting an enthusiastic yes from every girl he looks at.

      And being that we’re all (humans) intrinsically insecure, the shaming technique often works. “Yeah, maybe its me, it might just be me who mostly get rejections/crap/disrespect etc…” -> when in truth, that’s the reality of being a man.

      • Random doesn’t seem to understand what I have just said.
        So let me break it down for you.

        “I don’t understand the logic you are trying to convey here of asking out a hot girl or a hotter one. Your logic is basically well if all girls are equally vile to all men that aren’t alphas, then you might as well ask out all hot girls that way at least the rejection would make sense.”

        “LOL, that’s ridiculous man and I’m sure you know it too. To me the logical thing to do is ask out a woman based on qualities outside of her looks that you find appealing. You’ll be asking out the woman based on who she really is and in the end that’s what’s most important in the relationship.”

        I just pointed out earlier, that asking out not conventionally “hot” girls would result in you getting in between her delusion that the alpha currently pumping her was not in a relationship with her.

        Is that so hard to understand? If the girl who only has her personality going for her is mentally insane… you’re better off just asking the hot one, that the alpha is planning to trade up to, based on his social capital of being seen with and forgiven for all the _not_ conventionally “hot” girls he’s pumped and dumped.

        Remember: the final consequence of failure is getting your reputation trashed by the sisterhood. If that’s the case, you are better off, if you are choosing to start a relationship, to get it going with the hottest girl.
        Then it at least makes sense.

        After all, it is good to remember that a vast majority of women have 3 things in common:
        1. They want to be right about some guy.
        2. They cannot admit to being wrong about some guy.
        3. They will do what it takes, sometimes to the point of illegality, to maintain their view about that guy.
        THIS is the reason why men say you can’t get from the friends zone to the boyfriend zone.
        And also the reason why when a girl has been with a real scumbag for some time, she is not ready to leave him, until she is damn near worthless to any future relationship (e.g. has an STD, picked up a drug habit, become a baby mama, prone to mental breakdowns, became a spendthrift or has violent moodswings).

        • And Random…
          If the reason why men are not succeeding with women is because they are “Asking out solely hot women”…
          explain the divorce rate to me, and why 70% of it is initiated by women?

      • That’s 1 out of 10 after the first 200… 😀

        I doubt you’ve point-blank asked out 200 chicks WN. You refuse to answer that Q, and its been true of every guy I’ve talked to who claims the same. They tried like 4 times and half-tried like 6 times… but definetely not 200.

        Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying chicks are worth 200 rejections or not. I’m just saying that’s what it takes to overcome that “thing” that makes women treat you like crap.

        Today when I walk up to women they react as if they’ve been approached by Brad Pitt, and I’m still that same ugly dood I was before… Yet, in the first few hundreds times of me trying to communicate with a chick = I was treated like crap.

        • How could I try 200 times? It’s not like I have had 200 opportunities. Women want nothing to do with me to the point where getting an explicit rejection is damned near impossible most of the time.

        • @White&Nerdy

          How could I try 200 times? It’s not like I have had 200 opportunities. Women want nothing to do with me to the point where getting an explicit rejection is damned near impossible most of the time.

          WTF? Do you live in the sahara desert? I see like 200-300 chicks in an average day… Lol.

          I did my first 200-300 on the street, malls, clubs… And these WERE BRUTAL. They treated me like CRAP. Some even point blank told me I’m an ugly fuck. One girl went so far as to yell “Why the fuck are you talking to me?” out loud, attracting the attention of 50 people around us in the mall.

          Guess what… after I reached the point of indifference, all of a sudden I became the “cool guy”. Now I can walk up to any chick, anywhere, and she acts as if she’s been approached by Brad Pitt.

          I approach the same women, in the same locations, but now they act like they won the lottery if I merely say hi.

          Women SENSE if you give a fuck or not. Its that giving a fuck that makes them treat you like crap.

        • Seeing a chick on the street does not make that an opportunity.

          It’s hard to not give a fuck when I have to worry about real threats to my freedom and life because of women.

  9. Hey W&N, I just heard this in the news and found it pretty ridiculous. I’m not the type to really care about American Idol btw anyways.

    Apparently there are people claiming that there is sexism in American Idol because the last three seasons, three of the four final contestants were men. Also, this women Pia was the fifth woman in a row to be voted off the show.

    This is laughable because if it were the other way around, women being the American Idol winners and men being voted off consecutively. Then I’m pretty sure you’d get people saying that women are better singers or something of that nature.

    Just thought you might find that interesting and maybe make a topic on it. Here is the link of the story:

    http://www.imperfectparent.com/topics/2011/04/09/shock-as-pia-toscano-is-voted-off-idol-is-sexism-to-blame/comment-page-1/

  10. “If a guru simply told you “DUDE push yourself to approach 200 women, anyway you want” -> you don’t need him anymore.”

    You dont “need” a guru. But approaching 200 women wont make a difference if you keep doing the same stupid mistakes and getting rejected, you are only going to dig your grave deeper.

    Check this, this is all you need to know about game. Im watching video 17, heres the first one

    • Exactly. The idea of cold approaches. But at the same time, isn’t approaching women as “products” the same thinking that they are just interchange-able?
      I suppose every woman telling a nice guy “Just talk to 10 other women” is eventually contributing to the player that gets the women who want a man who doesn’t think she’s anything special.
      And then women say “It’s the fault of you men?”
      Um, if women didn’t give such stupid advice, or appreciated a good man vs. a “good approach”…
      Bed. Made. Lie…

        • you know this guy and you say game doesnt exist?

          But that’s the point. If you define game as simply “not giving a fuck” or “indifference”…

          Then what’s the difference between “game” and “indifference”?

          Does david have indifference? YES! And any man will get it if I simply get him to burn through 200 bitches and stop giving a fuck.

          David will be the first to mock game, and its existence. “game” is marketing term invented to sell shit to people. Its a term that’s vague on purpose so it can be redefined all the time and justify new concepts, new theories, new ideas, new techniques, new products, new seminars…

    • I listened to David X’s mp3’s when I was heavily depressed. Everything I needed to know about how to get girls I learned from him. He is brilliant.

  11. You dont “need” a guru. But approaching 200 women wont make a difference if you keep doing the same stupid mistakes and getting rejected, you are only going to dig your grave deeper.

    Actually you dumb-brainwashed dork… Before “gurus” and marketers invented 500$ products and seminars, we had this thing called “learning through experience”.

    I know, a novel concept… All marketing works on a) selling you on the idea that you have to use the product b) to FEAR alternatives.

    Its IMPOSSIBLE to do something 200 times and not learn. And besides, the idea here is to fucking NOT CARE. That’s it. I’ve worked personally, interviewed and had business deals with most gurus. Even the non-guru gurus, like you’re listening to now. And that’s just another marketing spin you dork. I know coz I wrote those marketing pieces. I brainwashed dumb dorks like you for a living.

    This is why in the game-industry, we’ll scare you away from learning by experience… We’ll tell you that UNLESS you know WHAT you’re doing wrong, you’ll just BURY yourself. There ARE KEY insights you MUST know… “the 5 things to NEVER say to a woman”, “the 10 things that will BURY your chances of her picking up the phone” and on and on and on… All for dorks like you who fear “making mistakes”.

    Listen you dumb dork. There are no “mistakes”. If A) you don’t give a fuck B) you just do it… You get like 1 in 11 chicks. That’s it. Those are the numbers of every guru. It really is that simple.

    The idea (of marketing) is to make you fear mistakes, and buy more products that supposedly teach you the mistakes to avoid. THERE ARE NO MISTAKES YOU DORK. There’s nothing to do wrong. The truth is, its all random. As long as A) YOU DONT GIVE A SHIT B) YOU JUST DO SHIT -> you get 99% of results. The rest is fucking random.

    These days I can force a guy to just get it over with, do those 100-200 approaches and stop giving a shit about bitches. After that, he’s golden. He gets the same results as any “guru”.

    • Wow! No need for name calling! Anyways Alek, I generally agree with what you are saying. Most of the insights I have of women up to this point come from past experiences, however limited they may be. Whenever, I look at what I should or shouldn’t do it’s always a past relationship. If a certain situation, the women was attracted to me I remember what I did at that moment and take note of it. If in another situation, a woman wasn’t attracted to me, I remember what I did at that moment as well.

      I’ve tried using pickup lines and following the advice gurus give and they usually had a 50/50 success rate, which made me realize they are a waste of time and now I just rely on past experience for outer game and for inner game I have thought up some useful techniques to develop it.

      I think guys like W & N suffer because they don’t have any valuable experience with girls to use at the right moment to know how to behave like women. I observe the behaviour of alpha males and I see women challenge them all the time and they usually pass for two reasons: they instinctually know how to behave and they have learned how to behave based on past experiences. This is why every guy should learn to make themselves mentally stronger to develop inner game and learn from experience to develop outer game.

  12. Dude, I dislike the “Game” term and it shows every time I speak about it, and I end always talking about the fake / real thing. I despise everything fake about game because it sells the quick effortless six pack to the lazy fat guy.

    But there is enough knowledge and insight in “Game” for whom wants to do the real thing. David X is the real thing, and its obvious he has the proper attitude and inside knowledge to handle women and other aspects of life, starting by putting himself first and developing manly traits. Obviously he didnt need Game to learn them, but Game is one of many ways to learn them, THATS WHAT I DID, and it WORKED. Just like going to a gym builds muscle.

    While you´re there, saying “game is worthless”, there are guys like WN who COULD USE GAME KNOWLEDGE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR SITUATION. WN is obviously clueless about why he is failing, why is has misery and why women hate him. If he had the knowledge, he could make a proper decision, but he didnt bother to ask and gather info about what exactly hes doing that gets him the results he gets.

    So ok if you hate “GAME”. I hate it as well, if it was for me it would be just about becoming alpha and not about learning Game, but he community is calling Game the whole thing, so, whatever.

    This is not about pleasing women, its about becoming the best male you can be. Not just the best person, the best male. And if you dont want to become that, at least making that choice deliberately, instead of just being a passive victim of life.

    Or you can be a clueless passive victim of life, if thats what you want, just not my thing.

  13. I mean dude. I see Mystery with the hat and the magic tricks and I laugh. I saw Game by Neil Strauss and I though OMGF. I learned all deAngelo crap and then disliked the guy because he´s really missing the point. But before game, I simply had no clue. I was playing my part as a beta provider white knight trying to be the best man I could, which by the time, just meant being a doormat and keep giving my other cheek and letting other people, less nice men, and women as a whole abuse me.

    So after all my transformations and insights and bullshit, my only complain about game is the fake shit, and then the resentfull shit. Roissy and Roohs and a lot of other guys in the scene are full of shit and are playing this the wrong way. But, so what! I dont give a fuck about them.

    The truth is if you can pick the truth parts, the red pills, and take them into your personality, and then re-grow as a person, you can fix yourself. There´s not a clear method or a properly guru or anyone really showing this part, so if I ever make a method, its going to be very basic and transformation oriented just to cover that hole.

    It makes me nuts to see clueless guys saying theres no solution for this mess. There is. It aint the fake nor the card tricks. Its something our fathers should have taught us. Its something that is being vilized and being taken down by feminism. Its the core about being a man. The infamous real man.

  14. Nope, game is a trick all right. More specifically, it’s a shell game and just like a shell game, whichever one you turn over turns out not to be ‘real game’.

    Talk about furry hats and peacocking and people will assure you that that’s not what they mean by ‘game’. No, it turns out they mean something different.

    Then there’s those guys who claim game actually means ‘be self-confident’. Really? Cause up till now I was working on being a gibbering wreck, but now you’ve told me confidence is good…. why, that changes everything.

    C’monl: yes, confidence is good, and so fitness, and good dress sense, but this is the equivalent of telling a potential investor that they should ‘buy low and sell high’.

    That’s the problem with the game movement: the stuff that isn’t obvious is mostly ridiculous,and vice versa. That’s not to say that game isn’t based on good insights about women but a) plenty of other ideologies, like MGTOW, offer the same insights b) for all the bluster there’s almost no coherent doctrine on what to do with these insights. Aloof? Cocky & funny? Something else?

    Then there’s the final problem: a lot of game teaching is like telling guys to invest in rental properties. Even if it’s sound advice, there’s still only going to be a minority of people equipped to exploit that opportunity. Just as in investing, there’s a significant number of people who aren’t high value enough to make a difference, no matter how well-executed their tactics are, but they can still get themselves in all sorts of trouble.

    • I see it. I see the shell game. But people turning away from the whole thing, while embracing loserdom, are missing the point.

      Sort of like rejecting church because God doesnt exist, but missing the “be good” part. I see it bro. Makes me sour. I want people to improve, but the church is doomed and ruled by fake. No God there.

      Comments like yours make want to write a proper “become alpha method”, sans the “Game” aspect.

      • What a perfect metaphor, you pretty much just summed it up perfectly. I am not a religious person at all, but I have realized that for many people religion is just a way to be spiritual, but in a way dictated by other people and old books. I am a very spiritually aware person and I became this way through my own methods, I never needed to use religion once. However, religion is about reaching the same goal, however the problem is that there is so much bullshit that can get in the way.

        It’s the same thing with game, game is like following a religion to become an alpha male. However, the goal of becoming an alpha version of yourself can be achieved without the religion of game, as long as you learn what it takes to become one. It is sad that people abandon spirituality because they look at religion as the only route and it is sad that people abandon the pursuit to become a real man as yohami would say because they look at game as the only route. There are many ways to become a better person and the best way is your own way.

        • It’s the same thing with game, game is like following a religion to become an alpha male. However, the goal of becoming an alpha version of yourself can be achieved without the religion of game, as long as you learn what it takes to become one. It is sad that people abandon spirituality because they look at religion as the only route and it is sad that people abandon the pursuit to become a real man as yohami would say because they look at game as the only route. There are many ways to become a better person and the best way is your own way.

          And who’s fault is that? I blame the gamers.

          Its games who come and say YOU EITHER EMBRACE THE CHURCH OF GAME… or remain a loser for life…

          They are the ones who push the false dichotomy. And since most people can see that game is 99% fluff, crap, scam… They throw away the whole thing and choose the “other option”.

        • Well to be fair to the gamers, they are unaware that game is just one way to be attractive out of countless ways. I used to read up on game a lot, but rarely actually put it into practice because I could never get over the hurdle of social anxiety, so game was next to useless to me. Once I started overcoming my social fears, I noticed women found me more attractive solely for the fact that I cared less what they thought of me and what I actually said to them mattered very little, but rather how I said it.

        • there are a lot of gamers who embrace it like a religion, a dogma, get all offended when you question the thing, etc. they do see game as the magic pill to cover your pity self and cheat for results. Roissy at the core of all of that.

        • @Random

          Well to be fair to the gamers, they are unaware that game is just one way to be attractive out of countless ways.

          Well to be fair to suicide bombers, they’re unaware that mass-suicide-bombings are just one of the ways to promote your religion…

          I’m sorry, its not an excuse. They know full well that they’re pushing it as if it were the pill to solve all of world’s problems.

          The problem? THEY’VE NEVER OBJECTIVELY VERIFIED IT. If I’m selling you a bottle of water and telling you that it cures cancer, but I’ve never tested it, never proved it, never asked a scientist if true -> is it ok because I think it “might” work?

          NO

          Ask gamers for scientific proof, and they FREAK OUT. Ask them to DEFINE what game is and they FLIP OUT. They know full well they’re selling a puff of cloud.

      • I see it. I see the shell game. But people turning away from the whole thing, while embracing loserdom, are missing the point.

        Nice false dichotomy. So there’s two types of people in the world…

        – People who embrace game the saviour
        or
        – People who embrace loserdom

        Comments like yours make want to write a proper “become alpha method”, sans the “Game” aspect.

        Here’s the proper “become alpha method”… Do whatever you have to do until you don’t give a fuck what chicks say or think about you.

        THERE.

    • @coastal

      That’s the problem with the game movement: the stuff that isn’t obvious is mostly ridiculous,and vice versa.

      Exactly… And that’s the whole point. If you remove the lies, the fluff, the ridicolous stuff, the marketing from “game”, what do you have left?

      You’re left with common-sense. “be confident, stop giving a fuck, be indifferent”… And that’s it.

      So why do we still use the term “game” then? Oh that’s right, to sell a religion, to sell products…

  15. Alek, I guess you´re mistaking me with some religious gamer here

    “Nice false dichotomy. So there’s two types of people in the world…- People who embrace game the saviour or – People who embrace loserdom”

    I didnt say that, so whats your point.There ARE people embracing loserdom who cant take the valid aspects of Game, because they get lost in the crap. Thats why I bring the church / be good analogy. You dont need the church, but you can reject it and be bad, or you can become good without

    “Here’s the proper “become alpha method”… Do whatever you have to do until you don’t give a fuck what chicks say or think about you.”

    Thats a good start, it isnt a method and doesnt explain the whys and the hows though, but its the proper start. Becoming alpha isnt about girls. Getting girls is a byproduct.

    • Alek, I guess you´re mistaking me with some religious gamer here

      VS.

      I didnt say that, so whats your point.There ARE people embracing loserdom who cant take the valid aspects of Game, because they get lost in the crap. Thats why I bring the church / be good analogy. You dont need the church, but you can reject it and be bad, or you can become good without

      That’s you being a religious gamer right there. You’re saying guys embrace loserdom, when they could be taking valid aspects of game… ONE PROBLEM… There are no valid aspectS of game.

      The fact that game mentions 342342341 scammy, crappy things, and then mentions confidence in passing, makes game an ok option? Let me give you an example… You’re hungry.

      Someone offers you a turd-sandwich. Among the 50 bad things that will happen if you eat it… Well, the one benefit is that you’ll no longer be hungry. In effect, you’re saying.

      “Some guys choose starving over eating the turd sandwich, where they could at least get some of its benefits”.

      I’m sorry dude, game is too tainted a term and too full of shit as to be useful. Religions have like dozens or even hundreds of good things in time. Game has one mentioned in passing – confidence.

      • Alek, “there are no valid aspects of Game” means there are no valid aspects on what DavidX is saying? or you’re saying DavidX aint game?

        Then you say Game “mentions confidence in passing”, are you aware of Real Social Dynamics (RSD) Blueprint, Mastermind, etc? its all about confidence and inner game, no pickup lines

        How about Dr Paul MindOS? thats all about confidence, fear, setting boundaries, he doesnt even mention getting girls at all

        How about Pickup 101 Body Confidence thing? the whole thing is about being confident in your body and how to stand, walk and feel at ease with, well, confidence

        So for you there are no valid aspects in that? or are you saying thats no game, because its no Roissy/Mystery?

        • Alek, “there are no valid aspects of Game” means there are no valid aspects on what DavidX is saying? or you’re saying DavidX aint game?

          If david were here, he would be making fun of you and calling you a dumb idiot for using terms such as “game” to describe him.

          Then you say Game “mentions confidence in passing”, are you aware of Real Social Dynamics (RSD) Blueprint, Mastermind, etc? its all about confidence and inner game, no pickup lines

          Dude… I was one of the first people to push blueprint. Heck, I had one of the first drafts, long before it was released.

          ITS JUST A NEW MARKETING SPIN YOU DORK. Get that through your head you dork. The “non-game” game, is just a new spin, to justify still selling products. Its just a marketing angle. The “no lines” game is just a new lame way to justify over-complicating something inherently simple.

          How about Dr Paul MindOS? thats all about confidence, fear, setting boundaries, he doesnt even mention getting girls at all

          Unlike you, I know a lot of these people personally, I’ve had the conversations behind the scenes. DrPaul despises and mocks most of the community and the business and marketing in it.

          So why the FUCK are you bringing up a product on psychology, to JUSTIFY the church of “game”? That’s like someone in church recommending a good lawnmower… And you going “seeee, church is a good thing, you get recommended high-quality products by good people in that church”.

          WHAT THE FUCK does mind-os have to do with you justifying “game”? Just because people INTO game recommend something useful once in a while, does NOT justify the church of game.

          How about Pickup 101 Body Confidence thing? the whole thing is about being confident in your body and how to stand, walk and feel at ease with, well, confidence

          THAT PERFECTLY captures why game is so destructive. Products like that turn guys into piles of anxious shit. Guys who over-complicate and focus on every little facet.

          Dude… body-language is the SYMPTOM of giving a shit, or not giving a shit. You can’t get the disease by learning the symptoms.

          IF YOU STOP GIVING A SHIT, you automatically get all the right symptoms. There are literally THOUSANDS of little sub-expressions in the face alone.

          You can’t FAKE indifference unless you’re an oscar-level Hollywood actor. You can spend TWO YEARS studying Lance Mason’s program, and women will still see that you’re CONSCIOUSLY trying to reproduce the body-language of a guy who doesn’t give a fuck. I know, coz I know five dorks who studies lance mason for 4 years.

          After 4 years they all looked like these fake, weird looking guys who just seem “fake”. Women describe them as being “off” when they meet them. YOU WILL ALWAYS appear as being “off” when you try to fake the symptoms and consciously reproduce them.

          This is the part where yohami says “ohhhhh ohhh, but lance demonstrates how if you put yourself into a certain body-state, the mental state follows” -> yes you dork, that’s an old marketing technique invented by Anthony Robbins in the 80s… Its a GIMMICK.

          You can’t become a confident guy by putting yourself in the body-language of one. It only MAKES U FEEL like one for 30 seconds. Its never permanent. It doesn’t work from the outside in. It works from the inside out.

        • So for you there are no valid aspects in that? or are you saying thats no game, because its no Roissy/Mystery?

          I’m saying its no game, because WHEN YOU REMOVE EVERYTHING USELESS FROM IT… All that you’re left with is “confidence/indifference”.

          THATS IT

          Aside from confidence/indifference, there’s NOTHING useful in “game”. Any type of game.

          Dude, you’re following the curve everyone follows when discovering game. First they learn the lines, then they learn the gimmicky technique-based shit like mystery…

          Then when they see that crap is dumb, they move onto to New-RSD, NewLanceMason etc…

          Until they eventually see its ALL BULLSHIT. There is no game.

        • Alek,

          “Dude, you’re following the curve everyone follows when discovering game. First they learn the lines, then they learn the gimmicky technique-based shit like mystery…””

          No, dude. I would never learn lines, and I would never do gimmicky, and mystery is a freaking douche and Im the first to put all of that crap down, because all of that is really misguided. You are really mistaking me for someone else here.

  16. Reading through this discussion, I am reminded of why I generally take the view that men should make informed decisions based on the options available to them in a realistic sense, and their own personal life goals.

    Game/alpha-making/confidence-building, whatever you want to call it, is effective as a way of self-development for men who want to be in some sort of relationships with women. I’ll assume this is most men. However, I don’t think it’s required to be an effective man outside of that context. Nothing in my own professional life has demonstrated that to me — in fact, different personas and approaches seem to work for men outside the sexual relations context quite well, not all of which are “alpha”.

    I do think, however, that for the minority of men who do choose to not pursue the path of Game/confidence-building/etc., a key element is finding a way to avoid becoming bitter. This isn’t because the bitterness may be unjustified — often bitterness has a valid justification. But the reality is that bitterness kills you slowly from the inside out, whether it is justified in its basis or not. So, in other words, if you’re going to be an MGTOW, then it seems to me you want to be free of bitterness so you can enjoy what you are doing with your life — your hobbies, your job, your interests, your friends and so on. It’s the whole point of being a MGTOW, in a sense, that you don’t want/need to be spending so much time/effort/energy around the issue of women and relating to them — but if you’re still consumed with bitterness, you’ll be doing so anyway, which kind of defeats the purpose of the whole choice, really.

    So, no, I don’t think a guy needs to be an alpha/Game/”real man” type to lead a happy and successful life as a man. If he wants successful relationships with women, he most definitely needs to do this, and I suspect most men do want such relationships. But for the minority who does not (and is still straight), other options are on the table, too, as long as bitterness is avoided.

    • Nova, how can a man not be bitter at women when his life and freedom are constantly under threat from women? I would be happy to simply forget about women but I still have to worry about false sexual harassment charges, false rape charges, and the myriad of other ways women can steal my property, my freedom, and my life. The only reason I don’t have more women gunning for me is that they don’t think they can get away with it.

      • There’s a difference between vigilance and bitterness, I think. The current climate is indeed hostile to men in many ways. That merits that care be taken in all circumstances to avoid problems. And it’s true that not all problems can be avoided that way, but the risks can be minimized.

        Bitterness is something that tinges everything else you do in life, and takes away from it. It’s true that the world is a crappy place for many guys today. But getting bitter about it just brings you down and interferes with getting what you want from life in other areas. It’s a choice, I think, really.

        • That makes sense. I’m not bitter. I’m vigilant, really hyper-vigilant because I must be to protect my life, freedom, and property. Anyone who says I’m bitter is doing nothing but using an anti-male shaming tactic against me.

  17. Alek,

    I FUCKING HATE THE CHURCH OF GAME. I HATE FAKE, I HATE QUICK PILLS, I HATE THE MISGUIDANCE, I HATE DOGMA, I HATE ALL OF IT

    Let that sink, then re read what I wrote, please. You are mistaking me for someone else.

    • Dude, you’re like a woman who says one thing, but keeps demonstrating the opposite. You say you’re not a gamer, but you keep defending game.

      I ask you, answer finally… WHAT IS GAME besides confidence/not giving a fuck? SPECIFICALLY?

      And if its not anything more, then why are you saying “game”, and not “confidence/indifference”?

      If it is something more, SPECIFICALLY SPELL OUT what it is. Don’t do your typical going around it… SPELL IT OUT. Write down a LIST of exactly what “game” is.

      • No, dude, you´re like a woman reacting in stupid ways when she hears a word she doesnt like, “Game” in this case. Or like an atheist who cant discuss about “Religion” without ranting, not matter what the point of the discussion is, or a marxist that cant handle a conversation about the trade stock without calling you a capitalist pig first.

        So shut the fuck up and if you´re calling me names, call yourself on your bullshit first.

        Im not defending “Game”. Go re read whatever Im saying. Replace that word with “self development” or whatever fits your mood

        Confidence is a lot more than not giving a shit. Confidence is skills: being able to win not just feeling like you can.

        The feeling on itself is most of the time delusional. The confidence based on skills lasts and gets unnoticed until other people outside remind you that you look oh so confidence.

        The ones selling confidence to the cowards have the same business model that the ones selling sixpacks to the fat dudes. Those are the Church Of Game you are prone to attack. Realize, dude, that I attack them too: IM NOT DEFENDING THEM.

        And what I keep bringing up here and everywhere its about the skills part, the real thing, the transformational thing, the fix yourself for good thing, the do the real work, the do 10000 abs until you get the sixpacks.

        And this shit aint about “approaching women”

        When I got “Game”, or sorry, lets not offend you, when I got “in the zone” women started approaching me, not the other way around.

        I have never done 200 street cold approaches nor tried lines and I never will

        • Hey, you did the exact thing I predicted you would 😀 post a rant trying to go AROUND my question.

          POST A DEFINITION OF GAME.

          What is game if it is more than simply confidence/indifference. Until you define it for me, this conversation can’t go on.

          Be SPECIFIC.

        • Im not defending “Game”. Go re read whatever Im saying. Replace that word with “self development” or whatever fits your mood

          Dude, that’s like saying “I’m not defending the belief in god, but I think that when god create the earth bla blabla” 😀

          Its very simple. YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT GAME AS IF ITS A REAL THING. THAT MEANS YOU ARE DEFENDING THE CONCEPT OF GAME.

          BY THE VERY FACT THAT YOU USE THE WORD GAME, YOU’RE ALSO DEFENDING ALL THE CRAP THATS SOLD UNDER THAT BANNER.

          GIVE ME A DEFINITION OF GAME, that doesn’t just boil down to “confidence/indifference”. And if you can’t, WHY THE FUCK do you insist on using the term game, a term that’s used to sell crap to naive horny little boys?

  18. While I have a negative view of game it is insulting to call game a religion. There are some religions out there that are honestly trying not to trick people and they are trying their best to offer some sort of answer to what people are seeking. It would be better to call game a con-religion or a fake religion. Maybe even a delusional religion.

  19. “POST A DEFINITION OF GAME, BE SPECIFIC”

    Premise A:

    There are identifiable behaviors, personality traits, postures, cognition processes that naturally successful males display, where “success” means having money, power, women, freedom, social dominance, respect, fun, and overall happiness / fulfillment.

    Premise B:

    Regardless of your current situation, you can enjoy “success” if you get yourself within the top group.

    Definition of Game:

    Game is an attempt to write down all these male-oriented traits, behaviors and processes, and study the whys and the hows.

    Fake approach:

    Display the traits by mimicking everything, learn how to trick everyone into thinking you are one of the top guys. Do it painless, overnight, and get a six pack while you´re at it. Maybe you´re not a cat, but if you meow loud enough at night, you might get a shoe thrown out at you, or even some nice milk.

    Self help approach:

    Dont worry about displaying the traits – the traits will emerge as a result of your inner work and real body status – so do the work that will improve yourself for good and for real, so changes are permanent. Face yourself, know yourself, free yourself, remove your blocks, face your fears, fight the fights and gather the skills that matter, grow as a man: become the alpha (see premise A) version of you.

    Or check this:

    http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2011/04/04/relationshipstrategies/the-wisdom-of-yohami/

    or check mine:

    http://www.yohami.com

  20. There are identifiable behaviors, personality traits, postures, cognition processes that naturally successful males display, where “success” means having money, power, women, freedom, social dominance, respect, fun, and overall happiness / fulfillment.

    So how do you explain the legion of unemployed, miserable, poor, boring assholes who get more women than the “rich, nice guys who are fun and happy and fulfilled”?

    Regardless of your current situation, you can enjoy “success” if you get yourself within the top group.

    So how come there’s a legion of guys who have all of the above traits but can’t get laid to save their lives?

    Game is an attempt to write down all these male-oriented traits, behaviors and processes, and study the whys and the hows.

    WTF? Game is now a “studying discipline”?

    So when you say “game everyone”, you’re saying “study the traits and behaviours of people”? Huh?

    When you say DavidX has game, are you saying he studies people’s traits, behaviours and processes.

    You’re really confused…

  21. “So how do you explain the legion of unemployed, miserable, poor, boring assholes who get more women than the “rich, nice guys who are fun and happy and fulfilled”?

    Because they are manlier than the rich nice guys.

    So how come there’s a legion of guys who have all of the above traits but can’t get laid to save their lives?

    Which of the above traits? I didnt list any. Go read that again.

    WTF? Game is now a “studying discipline”?

    I said its an attempt to write down and understand the hows and whys. When you learn about soccer its a “study”, when you play it, its art. That knowledge is to be used, and I listed the two approaches I see: fake and self help.

    So when you say “game everyone”, you’re saying “study the traits and behaviours of people”? Huh?

    Im saying use your charms on everyone, rather than trying to be a different person for each one.

    When you say DavidX has game, are you saying he studies people’s traits, behaviours and processes.

    Im saying he has knowledge and applied knowledge, the science and the art, the rationales and the charm, the behaviors, but also the whys and hows. And then she shares and profits from it. So far I find the guy to be real (the self help side), so more power for him.

    You’re really confused…

    No dude, you are. Your issues, not mine.

    • Which of the above traits? I didnt list any. Go read that again.

      I guess another yogini wrote this… “””””There are identifiable behaviors, personality traits, postures, cognition processes that naturally successful males display, where “success” means having ******money, power, women, freedom, social dominance, respect, fun, and overall happiness / fulfillment*****. “””””

      Because they are manlier than the rich nice guys.

      So does one need to have game, or be manly? Make up your mind… And DEFINE MANLY.

      I said its an attempt to write down and understand the hows and whys. When you learn about soccer its a “study”, when you play it, its art. That knowledge is to be used, and I listed the two approaches I see: fake and self help.

      Soccer is where you try to take a ball and put it in the net at the end of the field, following the rules of the game.

      WHAT THE FUCK IS GAME?

      I DIDNT ASK YOU WHAT APPROACHES THERE ARE TO APPLYING IT
      I DIDNT ASK YOU WHATS THE BETTER GAME

      I ASK WHAT THE FUCK IS GAME

      And you keep avoiding to answer the question. WHAT ARE THESE TRAITS? LIST THEM. BE SPECIFIC.

      Im saying use your charms on everyone, rather than trying to be a different person for each one.

      So how is “game” different than “charms”. FOR FUCKING SAKE, this game thing is like a chameleon… IT changes its meaning every 2 fucking seconds.

      Now game is merely “charming” people? The sentence “to game a person” means to “charm them”.

      SO IS GAME A FUCKING SYNONYM FOR CHARM?

      And if its not, what the fuck is it? Or is it whatever one wants it to be at a given time?

      • This is how you defined game

        Game is an attempt to write down all these male-oriented traits, behaviors and processes, and study the whys and the hows.

        Later on, when faced, you said that its really the “real world application of that knowledge”.

        Ok… SO BASICALLY Having Game (means) Having male-oriented traits, behaviours and processes”

        WTF? Huh? We have to go back to what you wrote earliel to find out what these “traits are”…

        There are identifiable behaviors, personality traits, postures, cognition processes that naturally successful males display, where “success” means having money, power, women, freedom, social dominance, respect, fun, and overall happiness / fulfillment.

        Ok, so THESE TRAITS are 1) traits that naturally successful males display 2) sucess is having money, power, respect, fun, women

        Ok… NOW PONDER ME THE FUCK THIS. Here’s what you said. Follow along your logic… THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID

        Game = Having the traits that successful men have
        Successful men = guys who are fun, rich, get respect etc…

        HERE IS WHERE YOUR LOGIC LEADS US

        How about the rich, fun, happy, respected guy who can’t get laid to save his life!?!? How the fuck does that follow?

        – By your own logic he is a “succesful man”.
        – By your own logic if you get his same traits, you will get laid

        THEN WHY ISNT HE GETTING LAID?

        Yogini answers: oh, because he’s not manly.

        So wtf? So it being manly, or is it having game? Make up your fucking mind, and define manly.

        • – By your own logic he is a “succesful man”.
          – By your own logic if you get his same traits, you will get laid

          That logic is sooooo retarded…

          Basically, game is me studying WN’s traits, and acquiring WN’s traits…

          And if I acquire WN’s traits, I will get laid, despite the fact that the guy whose traits I got (WN), isn’t getting laid.

          HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE?

  22. Alek, are you serious?

    If you are going to attack every word I write, at least take the time to read what Im saying. This anti-Game bias of your is taking the best of you. Imagine Im not saying Game, I dont give a shit about Game. Call my crap “esoteric male self help bullshit” for all I care, but if you are to discuss and argue about everything, at least attack what Im saying, and not what your imagination is telling you.

    So:

    “success” means having money, power, women, freedom, social dominance, respect, fun, and overall happiness / fulfillment.

    These are not personality traits, nor cognitive processes are they? thats a definition Im providing for success.

    So does one need to have game, or be manly? Make up your mind… And DEFINE MANLY.

    No one “needs to have game”, you are making that one up.

    MANLY: really need that definition dude? or just trolling?

    Soccer is where you try to take a ball and put it in the net at the end of the field, following the rules of the game.

    So?

    WHAT THE FUCK IS GAME?

    I say Game as a body of knowledge, get it?

    I DIDNT ASK YOU WHAT APPROACHES THERE ARE TO APPLYING IT
    I DIDNT ASK YOU WHATS THE BETTER GAME

    Easy on the screaming dude. You dont ask about the approach, so what?

    The approach determines the “Game”. At the end the principles are the same. You named the most important: confidence. So, you either have the confidence or you fake it. What you seem to hate about Game is all what I refer to as the fake part.

    For the fakers, Game is the art of faking traits so they can create attraction and get laid.

    For the self help, Game is the art of becoming a natural alpha man (here is where the traits and manly thing take part), by doing hard and core self work and being brutally honest with oneself, for starters

    And you keep avoiding to answer the question. WHAT ARE THESE TRAITS? LIST THEM. BE SPECIFIC.

    Check susans post, or check my blog, or stop being a troll, you´re getting tiresome. Theres nothing mysterious here, but the more you ask me for stuff the more you get worked out. Easy bro.

    So how is “game” different than “charms”. FOR FUCKING SAKE, this game thing is like a chameleon… IT changes its meaning every 2 fucking seconds.

    Game = knowledge of a set of traits / doing game = trying, improving, developing the traits / gaming someone = being with those traits with someone

    When DavidX is flirting with the waitress he´s using his charm on her, or, hes gaming her, or, hes just speaking his mind, or his lusting her, or, hes just being himself, or, he just wants to fuck her and likes to arouse her, or, hes just being the “man” and letting her be the girl, or, hes behaving in a way that is both honest and provocative, or, you get it, it aint a chameleon, its saying the same in different ways

    SO IS GAME A FUCKING SYNONYM FOR CHARM?
    And if its not, what the fuck is it? Or is it whatever one wants it to be at a given time?

    What I just said

    • I say Game as a body of knowledge, get it?

      So me studying gravity is me being a gamer?

      HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT MAKE SENSE.

      PRODUCE ME A SINGLE PARAGRAPH DEFINITION OF GAME THAT DOESNT CHANGE EVERY SECOND. PRODUCE ME AN ACTUAL CONCRETE OF DEFINITION THAT ISNT CONTRADICTORY, EVER-CHANGING, EVER-MALEABLE.

      I WANT A SINGLE PARAGRAPH THAT DESCRIBES GAME. ONE THAT IS TRUE OF EVERY INSTANT FOR WHICH YOU’VE USED THE WORD GAME.

      I will ignore all your other whining and tip-toeing and trying to avoid to answer the question. PRODUCE ME A DEFINITION.

    • Game = knowledge of a set of traits
      doing game = trying, improving, developing the traits
      gaming someone = being with those traits with someone

      WHAT SET OF TRAITS? LIST THEM! BE SPECIFIC. LIST ALL OF THEM. WHAT SET OF TRAITS DOES ONE NEED TO HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF?

      You previously tried to avoid the question by saying its the “traits which successful people have”, but that was a massive fail, because a lot of successful people aren’t getting laid by your own definition.

      SO LIST THESE TRAITS, DONT GIVE NO VAGUE “traits”… LIST THEM, BE SPECIFIC.

  23. Alek, are you serious?

    If you are going to attack every word I write, at least take the time to read what Im saying.

    Of course I’m gonna attack every word you write, coz your words keep changing!!! You come here to attack those of us who say there is no such thing as game… But you struggle to even define game.

    You hem and haw and redefine and shift, and can’t produce anything concrete. Stop whining, and produce me a fucking definition.

    • No dude, you attack every word I say because Im saying “Game”, but your attacks dont make any sense. You´r attacking stuff at the wrong places and putting words in my mouth, because you ASSUME Im some pickup artist trying to sell you the power of pickup lines.

      But pickup lines my ass. So if you are to attack me, at least fucking read what Im saying.

      • DUDE GIVE ME A FUCKING DEFINITION OF FUCKING GAME. DONT TELL ME WHY IM DISAGREEING WITH YOU.

        DONT TELL ME WHO YOU THINK I AM OR WHY I LIKE YOU OR NOT

        GIVE ME THAT FUCKING DEFINITION ALREADY

  24. easy:

    Premise A:

    There are identifiable behaviors, personality traits, postures, cognition processes that naturally successful males display, where “success” means having money, power, women, freedom, social dominance, respect, fun, and overall happiness / fulfillment.

    Premise B:

    Regardless of your current situation, you can enjoy “success” if you get yourself within the top group.

    Definition of Game:

    Game is an attempt to write down all these male-oriented traits, behaviors and processes, and study the whys and the hows.

    Fake approach:

    Display the traits by mimicking everything, learn how to trick everyone into thinking you are one of the top guys. Do it painless, overnight, and get a six pack while you´re at it. Maybe you´re not a cat, but if you meow loud enough at night, you might get a shoe thrown out at you, or even some nice milk.

    Self help approach:

    Dont worry about displaying the traits – the traits will emerge as a result of your inner work and real body status – so do the work that will improve yourself for good and for real, so changes are permanent. Face yourself, know yourself, free yourself, remove your blocks, face your fears, fight the fights and gather the skills that matter, grow as a man: become the alpha (see premise A) version of you.

    Or check this:

    http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2011/04/04/relationshipstrategies/the-wisdom-of-yohami/

    or check mine:

    http://www.yohami.com

    • Hey retard. We already showed by logic that the above is verifiably ILLOGICAL.

      Ok… NOW PONDER ME THE FUCK THIS. Here’s what you said. Follow along your logic… THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID

      Game = Having the traits that successful men have
      Successful men = guys who are fun, rich, get respect etc…

      HERE IS WHERE YOUR LOGIC LEADS US

      How about the rich, fun, happy, respected guy who can’t get laid to save his life!?!? How the fuck does that follow?

      – By your own logic he is a “succesful man”.
      – By your own logic if you get his same traits, you will get laid

      THEN WHY ISNT HE GETTING LAID?

        • No dude, you havent. You are not reading it well. Try to prove where is there any illogical, please.

          SHOW ME SPECIFICALLY WHAT I AM READING WRONG.

          All I did was connect YOUR OWN statements in a x = y = z fashion.

          WHAT DID I GET WRONG. BE SPECIFIC.

        • By the way, Alek, you are calling me retard etc. Keep it down, get easy on the trolling.

          Coz you’re annoying little religious zealot who keeps selling us shit and its insulting as fuck. I’ll break it down for you. You tell me which step I’m getting wrong.

          1) Successful men = guys who are fun, rich, get respect etc…

          This is based on you saying

          “There are identifiable behaviors, personality traits, postures, cognition processes that naturally successful males display, where “success” means having money, power, women, freedom, social dominance, respect, fun, and overall happiness / fulfillment.”

          2) Game = Studying and applying the traits that successful men have

          This is me reading what you said here:
          “Game is an attempt to write down all these male-oriented traits, behaviors and processes, and study the whys and the hows.”

          3) {logic} WN has those traits of succes, ergo, WN = Succesful Man (using your own definition)
          4) {follows} we should be studying WN and acquire his traits
          5) {follows} if we get WN’s traits, we’ll be getting laid

          Which step is wrong. BE SPECIFIC.

      • The logical conclusion of your vague drivel above is:

        “If I get WN’s traits, I will get laid”

        But WN isn’t getting laid. HOW IS EVEN REMOTELY LOGICAL, that if I instill WN’s traits, that I will start getting laid? And yet he (the one with the original traits)… Isn’t getting laid?

  25. I said this:

    There are identifiable behaviors, personality traits, postures, cognition processes that naturally successful males display, where “success” means having money, power, women, freedom, social dominance, respect, fun, and overall happiness / fulfillment.

    You are taking my definition of “sucess” and making it equal with the “traits”. Then you get an example of a guy who was “money” but no “women” and you say the money is the trait so how come he doesnt have women? dude. read what I wrote

    These things Im listing are stuff to measure success, and its the end result we want. Having success doesnt equal to having the traits, per se, and having the traits doesnt equal with having success, per se. Do you really need a lecture on this?

    You can be brave, bold, corageous (traits) and still lose the war (results, success)

    Or you can be a coward, poor, ignorant (traits) and still win the war (lucky success)

    So game, as far as I see it and my involvement on this, is a study, a recopilation, a body of knowledge about the TRAITS that winner MALES seem to have. To be frankly I DESPISE the GAME term, because, well, this shit aint no game, but thats the name they put on it, and for all I care this could be called Alek´s fantasy seduction book.

    So back to the point. You say “hey but there are so many rich dudes who cant get laid” and I say, well dude, then they dont match the definition of “success” to start with, because Im listing women there, along with some other measurable things, and because having women is a big deal of having success as a man.

    Am I going to fast for you bro?

    So if a loser has money, so what?

    What are the traits Im refering to? I can list a lot, but it all comes to the core of being manly:

    Bold, risky, aggressive, fun, dominant, honest, strong, smart, sharp, playful, sexual, etc.

    But to really make sense of these words we need examples, stories, and context. etc. This is about being the BEST MALE you can be, which is not the same as the BEST MAN or BEST PERSON or whatever, because the media, feminism, mother, etc have been telling us that being a man is bad, to be ashamed of our nature, etc. So

    Having very strongly and sharp male traits is what should have happened to us, but was denied for whatever reason.

    Im calling GAME the compendium of these traits. I know this doesnt make sense to you, because you have your own definition of game, one with a Game church and all the PUA crap. But thats what Im calling GAME.

    And GAME also the act of having it and doing it. Too ellaborate? pick a sole word for this process

    BECOMING ALPHA comes handy

    So “picking the traits and understanding whats going on” is the first part of BECOMING ALPHA, and then doing the stuff and practice and growing and self discovery, thats BECOMING ALPHA part two. And when you get lost and start faking and your ego goes offboard, keep that low, keep that down, kill the ego, keep growing. But not just growing as an asexual, good civic “person” but as a MALE MAN.

    So what do I mean with Game everyone? be alpha with everyone. Be sexual, be sharp, be playful, be dominant, be, dont be afraid of, let it flow, make it stronger, win them over. If some bounce back, do it any way. And dont be selective about being, because if you are alpha with some and none with others, it becomes a facade and a thing you do to get something, instead of something you are.

    Anyway.

    The back-thought is the manlier a guy is the more wet he gets the ladies. Also, the manlier a guy he is the more apt he is to combat and conquer the male rivals. Just like in nature. The biggest mofo male gets it all.

    So, a guy with the traits should, and this is the premise, both win at the world and get his way with women, or get somewhere in between.

    You say some guy cant get laid? chances are he doesnt have the traits that make girls wet. And chances are he is clueless about it.

    Once you know what the traits are, what do you do about it?

    You can reject the whole thing and say “fuck it, this is not my nature, I wont change myself”

    You can accept some of it and say “fuck it, I wish I knew this shit before, I get why I did so bad… fuck women… whatever, I´ll drop my bullshit and become a stronger man” and develop the traits

    You can embrace it like a religion

    You can hate it

    You can fake it, or try to fake it, and fuck a few lost souls including yours

  26. 3) {logic} WN has those traits of succes, ergo, WN = Succesful Man (using your own definition)

    WN might have money, but as far as I know he has no power, women, freedom, social dominance, respect, fun, and overall happiness / fulfillment.

    He might be able to teach you how to make money though

    This shit aint the rocket science you make it to be

  27. This shit aint the rocket science you make it to be

    I’m NOT THE ONE WHO MAKES IT 50 PAGES LONG. You and you religion do. YOU GUYS ARE MAKING OUT TO BE FUCKING ROCKET SCIENCE.

    You keep introducing new-variables, and any time one asks you about the inconsistencies of your stories, you have to introduce new factors to justify them.

    MY VERSION IS THE SIMPLEST IN THE WORLD:

    Getting laid = Not giving A fuck/Confidence.

    THATS IT. You’re the one making it rocket-science.

    • Getting laid = Not giving A fuck/Confidence.

      Yes, but whos talking about getting laid? not me.

      And confidence alone wont fix WN issues bro. When you are too down on the shit, you need to drop the shit first, before you can just be “you”.

      I’m NOT THE ONE WHO MAKES IT 50 PAGES LONG. You and you religion do. YOU GUYS ARE MAKING OUT TO BE FUCKING ROCKET SCIENCE.

      You have been trolling post after post without making a point and blaming your failed logic on me bro. And Im a single guy. If you wanna fight religious dogmatic players, Im not one, go find them somewhere else.

      • You have been trolling post after post without making a point and blaming your failed logic on me bro. And Im a single guy. If you wanna fight religious dogmatic players, Im not one, go find them somewhere else.

        The very fact you believe there is SUCH A THING AS “game”, makes you a dogmatic, religious zealot.

        You keep going in circles unable to define and explain this “game” thing.

        You have been unable to display or explain why or how “game” is anything different than confidence.

      • And confidence alone wont fix WN issues bro. When you are too down on the shit, you need to drop the shit first, before you can just be “you”.

        You brainwashed little tool. WE INVENTED THIS MARKETING. WAKE UP.

        The whole idea of game is for guys to believe that it “CANT BE THAT SIMPLE”, that there has to be more to it. That you have to STUDY shit.

        So they can sell you products, seminars and religions to study. THERE is nothing to study. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE.

  28. I’m only going to tackle the shit where you were specific. I will ignore the rest of your ramblings, since you’re trying to change topic.

    You are taking my definition of “sucess” and making it equal with the “traits”. Then you get an example of a guy who was “money” but no “women” and you say the money is the trait so how come he doesnt have women? dude. read what I wrote

    No I didn’t. Reading fail. I specifically implemented your new excuse in my 5 steps.

    1) Successful men = guys who are fun, rich, get respect etc…
    2) Game = Studying and applying the traits that successful men have

    It doesn’t say “1) game = fun, rich, get respect”.

    You specifically to a) identify who the succesful people are b) you told us how to identify these successful guys c) you told us to study the succesful guys

    I didn’t say you were saying that the “success traits = game traits”.

    Bold, risky, aggressive, fun, dominant, honest, strong, smart, sharp, playful, sexual, etc.

    Back to my ORIGINAL QUESTION (pay attention): My original question was “how the fuck is game anything MORE than confidence?”

    If we remove confidence from these traits… PAY ATTENTION

    “risky but insecure, agressive but insecure,fun but insecure, honest but insecure, smart but insecure, sexual but insecure”

    ===> HOW COME THERE’S MILLIONS OF THESE GUYS WHO POSSESS THESE TRAITS, but if they don’t have “confidence” with them, then they’re just “creeps” or “nice guys”?

    QUESTION 1) SO HOW IS IT THAT A GUY CAN HAVE ALL THESE TRAITS AND NOT GET LAID? (if the confidence is missing)?

    NOTICE… if you put the OPPOSITE traits, but add confidence…

    boring but confident, “calculated and conservative but confident, dumb but confident, asexual but confident, not dominant but confident”

    QUESTION 2) HOWCOME THERE ARE MILLIONS OF GUYS WHO HAVE EVERY TRAIT OPPOSITE OF YOUR LIST BUT STILL GET LAID? (provided they got the confidence)?

    DO YOU SEE? Its the confidence/notgivingashit that makes everything work. If the confidence is there, nothing else matters. If the confidence isn’t there, no amount of the other traits is enough.

  29. Back to my ORIGINAL QUESTION (pay attention): My original question was “how the fuck is game anything MORE than confidence?”</blockquote

    Define confidence

    • I meant

      Back to my ORIGINAL QUESTION (pay attention): My original question was “how the fuck is game anything MORE than confidence?”</blockquote

      Define confidence

    • All the things you listed are POSSIBLE symptoms of confidence. Sometimes confidence ends up with some of those symptoms, sometimes with none of the symptoms.

      Game = A religion that studies and applies the symptoms of confidence/indifference/status

      aw fuck. define confidence.

      Confidence:
      1.
      full trust; belief in the powers, trustworthiness, or reliability of a person or thing: We have every confidence in their ability to succeed.
      2.
      belief in oneself and one’s powers or abilities; self-confidence; self-reliance; assurance: His lack of confidence defeated him.
      3.
      certitude; assurance: He described the situation with such confidence that the audience believed him completely.

      Indifference:
      1.
      lack of interest or concern: We were shocked by their indifference toward poverty.
      2.
      unimportance; little or no concern: Whether or not to attend the party is a matter of indifference to him.

  30. ===> HOW COME THERE’S MILLIONS OF THESE GUYS WHO POSSESS THESE TRAITS, but if they don’t have “confidence” with them, then they’re just “creeps” or “nice guys”?

    Confidence is the main trait, totally agree on that.

  31. DO YOU SEE? Its the confidence/notgivingashit that makes everything work. If the confidence is there, nothing else matters. If the confidence isn’t there, no amount of the other traits is enough.

    Totally agree on that too. So?

    Yet, confidence alone is not enough.

    • Yet, confidence alone is not enough.

      In the classical sense of the word “confidence”, no. There’s also indifference which I originally pointed out. Sometimes I put it under confidence.

      But basically its confidence/indifference.

      I HAVE NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER Met a guy who’s confident and indifferent, but can’t get laid. It just doesn’t exist.

    • Yet, confidence alone is not enough.

      To give you a perfect analogy… The game industry is a lot like the dieting industry. The dieting industry relies on you buying products and supplements and equipment.

      In the dieting industry, it all revolves around brainwashing you that “calories are not enough”… In the sense that, its not enough that you simply EAT LESS and MOVE MORE… No no, there’s also these 4324 other factors you need.

      And then they get you to buy into 23423 other things, when, the calories are producing the entire result. Its the same with game.

      The entire game industry is based on brainwashing you into the idea that “confidence/indifference” is not enough… No no, if you do JUST THAT, you won’t get results.

      But its simply not true. Its impossible to eat less calories/get confidence and not get results. In fact, you will get the EXACT same results as the person studying 50 other factors.

  32. Dude, Im 100% with you on all of that and I hate the whole PUA/Game circus. I give a rat ass about what the marketing says and what they say is enough. They come up with useless shit whole industry and society, not just “game” profit by making you feel unsuficient: theres always something else you need. Etc.

    They cant profit from selling “confidence is enough” because to sell they have to make you feel unconfident and make you care, so selling indifference wont work either.

    I hear you and I give a rat ass about what they say and want. And your point is?

    “Confidence/indifference” is not enough in the strict sense anyway. Imprescindible, yes, enough, nope. So?

  33. So the confidence/indifference is producing all of the results.
    I.E game = “confidence + helluva lot of filler and bullshit”.

    Well, no. Confidence is what you feel and it projects in everything you do, confidence is attractive, real or delusional, girls crave for it and you feel better for it, and when it doesnt work, then the indifference comes to save you from feeling bad about it.

    So confidence/indifference project and shield you. Very nice.

    But thats not what gets the “results”

    Action is what gets the result. Yes, of course if you act confident your chances go way up. And the detachment form the action, way upper.

    But confidence/indifference getting the results, on its own? nope.

    Can you get results without confidence/indifference? hardly.

    • Action is what gets the result. Yes, of course if you act confident your chances go way up. And the detachment form the action, way upper.

      Actually, its impossible to have confidence and not take action :d That’s kind of an oxymoron.

      1) You see a chick on the street… She’s hot.
      2) You have ultimate confidence and you don’t give a fuck what women/people think.

      What are the odds of you not approaching her?

      • Make that

        1) You see a chick on the street… She’s hot. You want to meet her
        2) You have ultimate confidence and you don’t give a fuck what women/people think.

        What are the ODDS that you don’t take action?

      • You can take action and do stupid shit, full of confident shit, and get shit as result.

        But Im taking this further from PUA. Im saying confidence isnt enough for the same reason American Idols wannabes go to the auditions full of delusional confidence and get out crying.

        The ones picked arent just the most confident ones

        Im not trying to give you a hard time here. I see you earlier mentioned “game only briefly mentions confidence”, I brought up examples of game about confidence, then you didnt like I was calling such game or that was old crap etc. For all I care.

        Confidence is vital. But action is what gets the results, but then not action really, but HOW you act, and then how you handle what you get, and how that affects your mind.

        Still no rockets science, but its not just “confidence/indifference”, because Im not talking about your fears of approaching nor the amount of self steem you have

        But, say, winning American Idol? doing the real thing

        Being confident makes you sing better, but it doesnt tell how how to sing

        Once you have learned how to sing, that skill gives you confidence.

        etc.

        • Dude, you didn’t answer my question. You’re going into vague-territory again.

          Let’s define the definable, measurable and specific first. So I ask again… I will answer your other issues later, just answer me this first:

          ==================

          1) You see a chick on the street… She’s hot. You want to meet her
          2) You have ultimate confidence and you don’t give a fuck what women/people think.

          What are the ODDS that you don’t take action?
          ==================

        • none. so what?

          Good, we’re getting somewhere… Now. Here’s the part you don’t know. The big industry secret is that every single guru gets the exact same results.

          Every single guy, no matter what his approach, his method. They all have the EXACT same batting average. Its so close its spooky. You can’t believe human nature could possibly be so finely definable.

          Guys doing OPPOSITE THINGS, get the EXACT same results. In fact, get a 100 “gurus” who all do 100 things that are COMPLETELY different, they all get the exact same result.

          The one thing they have in common is confidence. Dude… Here’s the trick.

          1) A chick either likes you or doesn’t
          2) If she does, all you have to do to get her is be confident/indifferent… it doesn’t matter WHAT you do

          Anything else is marketing. Its like in dieting, they tell you “but simply eating less is not enough”… Yet, when a study compiled ALL FREAKING 100 top diets, it found that they ALL were around 1200 calories.

          Open those diet books, they all have fancy theories about WHY they work. One says YOU MUST eat more carbs. One says you must eat LESS carbs. And they ALL SAY “eating less is not enough, you must also xyz”

          Question: Can you explain to me if confidence/indifference isn’t enough, then how come everybody gets the same fucking results doing completely different things?

          In fact, I’ve had two students achieve the same ratio as all the gurus, with just telling them to approach and piss off 200 chicks. After that, they somehow automatically got the “magic number”, yep, the same one that all the gurus have. It really is that simple.

  34. Good, we’re getting somewhere… Now. Here’s the part you don’t know. The big industry secret is that every single guru gets the exact same results.

    Impossible: the best looking guys get more results.

    As for the rest, I already know that, and I got you the link:

    http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2011/04/04/relationshipstrategies/the-wisdom-of-yohami/#comments

    “girls can see you coming miles away. girls can see what you are doing from the very far. most of the time the result is already decided, and the girl already knows where she wants to put you in, and most of the times she will just let you do your thing, just to see you try, just to see your will to get her
    so less is more. if there wasn’t a chance, chances are you are not going to get her by trying harder or playing it “clever”
    put 10 cents of alpha instead of huge amounts of strategy
    [make] your intention clear and open the box straight to find if its a win or not
    that simple and effortless way, ironically ( it ceases to be ironic once you have understood), puts a gift inside of the box 99% of the time
    …so forget about chasing her and remove the stress on the “closure”. stand there, walk to her, talk to her, touch her, enjoy it, be the guy, let her play the girl, game over
    if it feels “right” she´ll be yours. the less forced you make it, the more it will feel right for both of you
    that fear of going direct and simple comes from not liking who you are
    you think going with strategies and roles and tricks is necessary because if you go like you are, she’s going to reject you
    the stupid part is, she is already seeing you naked. in her eyes you are a naked guy who is trying to fit a costume that doesn’t fit
    if you stand there naked, even with your defects and in spite of them, saying “so what!” and having fun, that single move makes you a lesser alpha.
    EVEN WITH YOUR CURRENT FLAWS
    …if you drop all your bullshit, you are almost there
    just by doing that
    then, all the interactions and the experience, the wins and the hurt you get while going naked, while being your true and flawed self, actually helps you to grow. its not just a technique calibration, its the fucking real thing: its your life journey path. every experience makes YOU stronger, rather than making your “technique” better
    so… don’t be afraid of being you”

    And that comes from my own experience. Yes, the outcome with the girl is pretty much decided from the word go. She either takes you in or not. Trying different stuff doesnt bring much to the table, because most of the time the girl isnt paying attention: she has her own check list going on, and stuff you have no control over. So less is more. And then the more relaxed you´re about it, the better = more confidence and indifference.

    Question: Can you explain to me if confidence/indifference isn’t enough, then how come everybody gets the same fucking results doing completely different things?

    “Enough” for what? what are you calling results? phone numbers? dates? threesomes? harems? do the girls fall in love with the guys? one night stands or LTRs? relationships managed properly or does everyone get burned? is the whole thing happy or stressful?

    What are you calling results here? Its impossible everyone is getting “the same”

    For all I care, anyway.

    Im saying “its not enough” because it isnt. My goal is to become Alpha, develop the traits I need, other than confidence (not a problem) or indifference (for all I care!). Pussy, Im already getting more than I can handle. This is what Im after:

    “money, power, women, freedom, social dominance, respect, fun, and overall happiness / fulfillment.”

    • Impossible: the best looking guys get more results.

      Slightly. But then again we’re talking about what you can change. I’ve tested this on dozens upon dozens of guys. They all get the same results as mystery/paul janka etc…

      “Enough” for what? what are you calling results? phone numbers? dates? threesomes? harems? do the girls fall in love with the guys? one night stands or LTRs? relationships managed properly or does everyone get burned? is the whole thing happy or stressful?

      What are you calling results here? Its impossible everyone is getting “the same”

      Initial results obviously. They all get the same ratio of numbers/dates/lays. I haven’t surveyed “threesomes? harems?”, but its pure logic that if lays (both ONS and date based) are the same among guys, why wouldn’t threesomes be.

      relationships managed properly or does everyone get burned? is the whole thing happy or stressful?

      Ok, see how you had to expand the definition now because you’re so tied into this religion? Now its about love and being happy?

      How do you not see this is a cult? You’re talking about happiness and love? That’s some scary shit dude.

      The reason you’re going there is because “love”, “happiness” are not measurable. The point is, as far as you can measure shit and quantify shit, everyone gets the same. You have to expand it beyond the measurable to justify it.

      And that’s what religions do…

      what Im after:

      “money, power, women, freedom, social dominance, respect, fun, and overall happiness / fulfillment.”

      That’s just scary dude… That’s just some scary shit… And then “game isn’t a religion”… After you had to face up to its inexistence on the micro-level, you had to expand it more and more, just like religions do… into increasingly broader and broader areas and more and more undefinable shit… Sigh…

      I wish you luck and quick recovery. See you in 5 years when you live the sect.

      • Im not expanding it dude, its on the first definitions I gave you, it clearly says “overall happiness / fulfillment” but see, you dont read me, your BIAS here is so huge

        Sadly

        • The reason you’re going there is because “love”, “happiness” are not measurable.

          No dude, Im bringing it up because a lot of girls fall in love with me and cant get enough, and I have a friend who bangs a lot of girls but his relationships always end up sour

          So there is a quality and a difference: he lacks finesse and social skills. Er. TRAITS.

          And I bring happiness because thats what Im after. Obviously. If you´re not happy with the results, WTF.

        • Initial results obviously. They all get the same ratio of numbers/dates/lays. I haven’t surveyed “threesomes? harems?”, but its pure logic that if lays (both ONS and date based) are the same among guys, why wouldn’t threesomes be.

          Flawed logic. How you handle these relationships, no matter how brief they are, determine the outcome

          Not “getting the number” but what happens afterwards and how the story ends

  35. Lets paraphrase this:

    1) You see a chick on the street… She’s hot. You want to meet her
    2) You have ultimate confidence and you don’t give a fuck what women/people think.
    What are the ODDS that you don’t take action?

    Odds are you take action. How about:

    1) You see a tide… its a nice tide, you want to surf it.
    2) You have ultimate confidence and you don’t give a fuck what tides/people think.
    What are the ODDS that you don’t take action?

    Odds are you go approach the tide.

    What are the odds you surf it? (do you have a table?, do you know how to surf?)
    What are the odds you mount it on time?
    What are the odds you dont fall, dont hurt yourself, you reach the border safely?
    What are the odds you surf it like a fucking pro?
    What are the odds you are the best surfer on the beach?
    What are the odds you win the national surf championship?
    What are the odds you can do it again? and again? and again?

    So there´s a difference about having the confidence/indifference, and winning the championship again and again and again

    But of course, the winner of that championship is confident, and indifferent. Been there, done that, he says.

    For whom hasnt been there or done that, I mean, what the difference does it make when you dont know how to surf and down own a table, to be confident and indifferent? that isnt going to get you the medals

    Can you try, approach, and see what happens? sure.
    Will you get results? well, theres a result for everything
    Will you win a championship? unlikely

    See, Im not talking about bedding girls. Girls are easy. Very. If you have confidence, that alone is a turn on for them. Then it all relies on how they feel with you and how much they like you, for things that most of the time you cant control

    So Im not talking about “dude you need all the championship shit or you FAIILL DUUDEEE”

    Im talking about the real thing, being the man, leading the world, wining big, real lasting success.

    My current rate with girls is 6/10 or more. Hard to measure, because I set things up in a way they come to me. All what I have been saying aint about girls, its about

    SELF HELP. Male oriented self help. Having girls is just a part of it.

  36. Pingback: The Level Of Argument Used Against Me « Omega Virgin Revolt

  37. Pingback: My problem with MRA’s and gamers (aka PUA’s) « Alcestiseshtemoa's Blog

  38. I know this is an old thread, but I just want to thank Alek for his conversation with yohami.

    I have been realizing more and more how there’s no such thing as “game,” but I keep catching myself saying things like “but what that guy teaches is actually good.”

    After reading the discussion it’s crystal clear to me that it’s all reducible to confidence/indifference.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s