57 comments on “It’s About More Than Dating

  1. With the dates you have been on with women how did they trun out? Did they ever once ask for a second date? Also who paid for the dates?

    With my dating usually the women will break it off after two or three dates even when I pay for the activity dinner and come up with where to go. It seems the guy has to be innovative, provide the entertainment/activity idea and bankroll the whole thing and the women still end up breaking it off for whatever reason. They come up with some stupid excuse such as “chemistry”, what does that mean anyway?

    Great blog and keep up the good work.

    • Do not pay for dates until the woman shows she’s willing to pay her own way/pay for you.

      Demand reciprocity.

      • The woman who expects a man to pay for her…
        is saying that the pleasure of the man’s company is not worth her money to be with him.
        Which man would like to be with a woman who thinks so little of him?

        • And to the women coming on who say that it’s tradition that the man pays…
          well…
          it is also tradition that in a wedding, the woman getting married in white was a virgin.
          Or is it only tradition when the woman benefits, but oppression if the man benefits? After all … would all you women jeering in that way, want your sons/brothers/fathers/uncles to marry the town slut who wore white?

        • If there is more demand for a particular woman’s company than there is for yours than generally you need to bring something more to the table than a guy for whom there is more demand than yourself.
          Lets stop pretending that attractiveness is subjective.
          It is not.

        • Attractiveness becomes subjective the moment she can get it in her head that not many men are willing to ask her out AND stick around for what happens after in life.

          But of course, knowing how women make their decisions, they have crystal balls that always correctly predict the future.

          Here’s a thought then…
          Maybe they really want to be alone with cats?
          Then why are they complaining that no man wants them when they’re older, is it because when they were younger they were merely putting on an act so that men didn’t know whether “I’m not interested in you” was a challenge or an order to stay away?

        • “I’m not interested in you” was not a challenge.
          She perceived her desirability at that age to be greater than yours, and was getting the requisite attention to sustain that belief.
          Women who complain that “no one” wants them when they are older really mean “no one” that is at the overall attractiveness level they once had the option to be with when they were younger.

          Pretty much every woman could be with “somebody.”
          It is a tough pill for many women to face that they can no longer pull someone that they once would have turned down.
          They mostly eventually swallow it though and connect with “someone” long term.

    • “Chemistry” just means you did not get the ball rolling fast enough sexually.
      It is not enough to pay for a date and just chill with a woman like you would a dude.
      You should initiate some form of physical contact when you are out with a woman the first. Some sort of touching on the first date.
      If she pulls away there should not be a second date.
      Every instance of being alone with a woman should bring with it an increasing level of physical intimacy.
      If this is not happening, cut your losses, you’re getting played.

      • It’s amazing how many women develop chemistry for people with money. On the other hand that is also a good rule of thumb – a woman needs more chemistry with a man when she is not attracted to him.

        Basically boiling down to the idea, that if a woman wants a man sincerely, she will not be a burden to him.

        A man should cut his losses the moment he senses the conversation is becoming the kind you get with a person who sees you as someone troublesome. I’d spell out the type, but I’d much rather hold that back since the golddiggers might be out in force reading what I type.

        • Not necessarily true. If w&n is as financially successful as he claims, he would be banging golddiggers. Even George Sodini had a well-paying job, ok looks for a middle-aged man, 6-figures in savings, and couldn’t get laid in 20 years.

          Women simply did not want anything to do with him, not even using him as a walking ATM.

        • I can tell you from experience in meeting men similar to myself that you are considerably more likely to meet a sexless man who is a millionaire than one who is poor.

        • I have a hunch that if Sodini hadn’t committed suicide and ended up in prison, he’d get a ton of women proposing to him. Chicks dig psychopaths.

        • The reason WN isn’t with golddiggers is because he’ll invent like 50 mental contortions to not be with them. He’ll also invent 59 billion reasons to not flash his money.

          Golddiggers are not telepathic you know, you have to advertise the money first.

        • The issue here is the flash;
          the more time someone spends being flashy, the less time they can spend on their business.
          However, the less time they spend on their business, the more likely their competition is going to grab their clients.
          When women want the kind of guys that can go flashy without doing any work for long periods…
          maybe that is also an indicator of the kind of woman they are – “too pretty for work”, and they expect a man “who is paid for just existing”.
          Not too many of those around, I’d think.

        • I can tell you from experience in meeting men similar to myself that you are considerably more likely to meet a sexless man who is a millionaire than one who is poor.

          See, this is where you get more irrational than a PUA. All the research shows otherwise. The odds of you being sexless and a millionaire are infinitely smaller…

          Again, you’re rational on most shit WN, but there are areas where your rational brain shuts down and you get down to the rationality level of a PUA.

        • All the research shows otherwise.

          What research? I know the plural of ancedote isn’t data, but it’s all I got. How many male virgins do you think are honestly filling out surveys about our virginity? I wouldn’t if presented with such a survey. There is also the problem of the guys who aren’t virgins but might as well be. That complicates the issue.

          My experience (since that’s all I have) says that I’m not incredibly unique. Since you disagree and believe that wealth is correlated to getting laid a lot and povertly is correlated to virginity, how is it I exist?

        • What research? I know the plural of ancedote isn’t data, but it’s all I got. How many male virgins do you think are honestly filling out surveys about our virginity? I wouldn’t if presented with such a survey. There is also the problem of the guys who aren’t virgins but might as well be. That complicates the issue.

          I was talking about getting laid’s relation to wealth. Nobody specifically measures “zero lays” as a separate study. Being a virgin only means you have a 0 under the lays graph, that’s it. The same logic applies.

          The point is, more wealth = more lays.

          My experience (since that’s all I have) says that I’m not incredibly unique. Since you disagree and believe that wealth is correlated to getting laid a lot and povertly is correlated to virginity, how is it I exist?

          I was right, you drop to the intellectual level of a PUA when this topic gets mentioned….

          Correlation doesn’t mean absolutes 😀 It only means your ODDS of getting laid are proportional to that factor. The more money, the more lays (all else being equal).

          That correlation only gets broken once you get down to the level of abject poverty. It is true that the poorest in society are just as promiscious as the wealthiest in society… But that’s because of the same reason they have higher crime rates – they just take more risks. They just hit on everything in site (ussually crack whores). Guys in abject poverty are not fucking lingerie models.

        • I tend to agree with nerdy on this point – genetic benefits(indicated in physical attractiveness), and direct benefits(indicated in investment strategies with respect to material resources, and paternal investment) are conflicted evolutionary strategies.

          So, most rich guys will lack on side of genetic benefits(i.e special cases don’t count against this general statement).

          Watch Millionaire Matchmaker(and yes, I contend it is an accurate representation of reality in Western culture) – there is no shortage of lonely, desperate Millionaires out there, which suggests that money obviously isn’t all it’s cracked up to be when it comes to getting sex from women(who aren’t prostitutes).

          Sure, women may be more sensitive to money when it comes to marriage prospects.

          But that again, only begs the question of the spurious relationship between marriage and sex(which any savvy guy can appreciate).

          Don’t get me wrong.

          It is undeniably true that *all things being equal*, wealth will score you more/hotter women.

          But, things are never equal.

          So, I think it is reasonable to conclude that income/wealth is not linearly correlated with mating frequency.

    • Ok, let me translate for you. “Lacking chemistry?” It means she found you unattractive and just wanted free meals/entertainment/etc on your dime. You were played.

      Really, the only way to avoid being used like this time and time again is to play hardball and refuse to be the one who pays for everything and does everything.

      To really understand why these things are the way they are you just need to learn how female sexuality works. It’s all hypergamy. Why do you think women have narrow preferences in what they find sexually attractive–even among celebrities– leading a very, very small and similar group of men? Why do you think there are so many over the hill women who complain about their fairy tale prince never showing up? Ask yourself these questions and more.

      • The females wanting the prince charming but being with Mr. Regular …
        it’s for the worse, if you are the Mr. Regular.

        You will be footing the bill for her lifestyle to bitch about how you aren’t Prince Charming and you should be so glad she deigned to marry you when no other woman would look at you.

        And of course, whether she cheats or you cheat … you get to give her half for her sacrifice in being with you and not being with someone else.

        Watch out for such women. They’re trouble.

  2. I hear you Omega. Much of the behavior I have encountered has nothing to do with sex or dating either.

    I was “almost” falsely accused of sexual harassment – In addition to this, many other examples – http://men-factor.blogspot.com/2010/07/got-whale-of-tale-to-tell-ya.html
    Accused of murder – after being yelled at simply for making a non-sexual remark about the groceries a woman was buying.
    http://men-factor.blogspot.com/2010/07/in-2008-coworker-asked-me-if-i-killed.html
    Accused of murder by a coworker.

    These things have nothing to do with dating. There are many such experiences in my life.

    The reason women hate, in my opinion, is because they believe that men used to beat and rape their wives.

    They also believe that “nice guys aren’t really nice” – which is just as jackassed as saying “cubes aren’t really cubical”.

    For the last 40-50 years, a huge slew of verbal diarrhea that you’d expect from mentally retarded people, or college professors has been getting hammered into people’s heads.

    It has women wound up very tight against men, and many men wound up very tight against each other.

    My humble opinion, nothing will ever change.

    The “leaders” who are supposed to be stopping or fixing this, are blind to the real problem.

    Go ahead – throw your tomatoes…

    • The only men that are allowed to be critical of women,
      are the men that women look up to …
      which by the very nature of that statement – would be the men that can get away with looking DOWN on women.
      Of course, the second bit of that statement is what many women leave out, they have an annoying habit of not completing their sentences.

      “is because they believe that men used to beat and rape their wives.”
      What, ALL men that they don’t like? Even their own fathers? Yeah, there was a secret compartment in Dimension X where father would disappear to, accessible by a curvature in the space-time continuum. He would have dragged mother there telepathically.
      It was over in a moment, they stood before me in the ordinary way …
      but I was sure she was beaten. Those ancient technologies, long passed down by “T3h Patriarchy” … no woman dared speak about it, and all men knew better than to expose it.
      The mental contortions that women get to to justify treating men badly are very well thought out. Maybe the reason they are mostly not succeeding at the technical subjects, is because they spend so much time rationalising their hatred of men.

      • My favorite mental contortions are the one women come up with when you ask how come they never approach, ask out or even give clear signals to guys they like.

        The distance of absurdity they have to go to in order to answer that is mind blowing.

  3. Omega,

    I’ve found that, as I’ve lessened my contact with women, my problems with them have gone down. When I was nicer and friendlier with my female coworkers, that’s when I’d have problems; when I stopped doing everything except very occasional small talk, my problems stopped. The key is to avoid talking and/or interacting with women without being OBVIOUS about it. Hope that helps…

    MarkyMark

    • I’ve found that, as I’ve lessened my contact with women, my problems with them have gone down.

      It’s the same with me. Now that I run my own business, effectively my contact with women is so minimal that I don’t really have any problems with women anymore. Now, my contact with women, besides my mom, is pretty much in cases where they’re paid to be nice to me and have to be nice to me, waitresses, receptionists, etc. While this sounds great, the fact is I had to effectively put myself into a virtual ghetto to accomplish this, and I hate that.

      • IF you had a women show authentic interest in you, have sex with you, be your girlfreind and all that. How do you think that you would effect your life? What it go so far as to change your vies on women in any way. Would it make you a much more happy individual. What do you think the effect would be?

        • My ex girlfriend did show authentic interest in me, had sex with me and was my girlfriend.

          It didn’t make me a happier person in fact i was miserable because i did everything to be a good boyfriend and she didn’t show any appreciation by making any attempts at being a good girlfriend.

          Omega would be much happier as a free man than being burdened by a girlfriend.

        • As Newt’s experience shows, a girl being interested in you …
          is completely different to a girl being good to you.
          One of the reasons I believe many women hate nice guys …
          is because, many women are not nice,
          and the nice guy with them is plain to see that they have the moral high ground.
          Many women want the moral high ground for themselves,
          because then they can break up with the guy and get sympathy for it plus the chance to trade up with the saying “next guy better make it up to me to restore my faith in men”. Of course, reverse the genders and such behaviour is not tolerated.
          Taking Facebook as an example, there are some women who view men as so toxic they are not allowed to comment on their pages – the men’s comments get deleted as soon as they’re put up – but the women maintain a facade of teeheehee, I’m only talking about womanly things – when the reality is they massively censor their pages.

        • Relationships with women have merely proven to me that even the best of them are mediocre, deeply untrustworthy, and ungrateful human beings.

        • I had women show interest in me, proceed to have sex with me, and become my girlfriend. It only made my opinions of women worse….

  4. You said you recently attempting to ultilize the services of a prostitue and this was a “disaster”. I would really appreciate you informing your readers about this event. As a hopeless omega, I plan on visiting the brothel (legal in my country) but don’t know what to expect. Couldn’t you just specify what happened in vague terms.

      • I doubt your enemies could actually do material harm to you. You seem to protect your privacy pretty well. What “enemies” do you have besides a few PUA bloggers? All they can do is talk B.S.

    • I will answer you Mahoney. I have a ton to go on as I’ve sent a ton of older virgins to bordels. I’m working on sending 2 right now as well.

      Here’s what tends to happen. When you go to a bordel, if you’re an older virgin (over 15 lol), there’s a 99% chance you will have erection issues.

      Every single older virgin I’ve sent to a whore, had problems getting it up, and ended up fucking with a half-erect dick and not cumming… Every single one.

      ->So why do it?

      You do it the first time for the mental advantage. Just so you get experiental evidence that sex isn’t that big of a deal (its overrated).

      You will only have an enjoyable experience only on the second or third try.

      If you want to have an enjoyable experience the very first time, you’d have to hire an expensive escort for like 2-3 hours and explain your situation, so there’s a ton of foreplay time.

      • Men don’t lose their loins if they are an “older virgin”.
        As a matter of fact if they get through their teenage years, I believe (extrapolating from my own experience), that they are actually much more able to resist feminine wiles, so aren’t jumping around at the UGs.

        The ones jumping around at the UGs probably had a first taste of sex in their teens, then were cut off for years. When your hormones get first dibs for your first sexual experience, I’m thinking that (since the brain is still developing), it affects susceptibility towards _ANY_ female interaction. Yeah, sounds weird, but it seems to be so … guys who’ve had sex in their teens then got cut off for whatever reason, seem to be the ones who are easily manipulated by girls with the promise of sex.

        In my situation of being an older virgin, I’m sorry, but the sluts my age are not interesting, attractive or arousing in any way. And it’s twice that I’ve had females get to a variation of “why don’t you come up to my room”, e.g. “The walls are closing in on me and I’m so hot, please come up to see me” and “I’d really like you to come in”.

        In both cases I excused myself. Like I said – when women worked so hard to make sure men like me got no attention, I try to make sure the women my age … get no attention from me. After all, when two people have different sexual histories the relationship becomes more complicated than it should be, since “honesty is the foundation of a lasting relationship”, and if I’m a virgin … so should she be.

        • Different story bro. Nothing to do with what I was talking about. None of the guys I’m talking about are in your frame.

          In their case they still worship pussy and want to get laid like mad. The reason they have erection issues is due to anxiety. Only a 15 year old has such raging hormones that he can have a FULL hard-on even while being anxious.

          That’s why trying to lose your virginity at a later age in a rushed manner (a cheap whore who jumps out of nowhere, and you have 30 seconds under pressure to get it up) -> causes erection issues.

          Older virgins don’t have that problem if they try to lose their virginity with a girlfriend (lot’s of foreplay), or if they try to lose it with an escort (2-3 hours of no-pressure hanging around).

          What I’m talking about specifically only happens when one tries to lose virginity under pressure in a cheap brother that has you under a stopwatch, lol…

      • If I was in White & Nerdy’s situation, that is exactly what I would do – hire an attractive expensive escort for 2-3 hours or preferably more, and actually use most of the time explaining the whole situation to her and only then do anything physical- there are many escorts out there who could help with that. It would be expensive but if W&N has the money he says he does (and we have no reason to doubt him) then he might find it worth it. If I were him, I’d hire the same escort just to give periodic advice also, if she was any good.

      • AlekNovy,

        Would you see fit to providing me with your email so I can explain my situation. I’m a 23 year old incel virgin, omega, but I’m not looking to do the usual bitching and whining. I have pretty much resolved that I will go to a prostitute, but I have SERIOUS concerns about it that I would love to talk to you about and which I know that you’d understand. Although you and I probably both know what I’m referring to, but I’d rather not go through the indignity of explaining it in the comment sections of some others dudes blog. I really need to go into VIVID detail. I really want to make this next step, but I have major concerns that I have not been able to talk about with anybody. The embarrassing nature of it means I cannot raise these concerns with friends or family. So please do me that favor, I really need to resolve this issue.

        Cheers.

        • Cant write email coz of spambots

          My email is my name at gmail.com. 🙂 feel free to email me any time. I’ve had many friends I’ve helped through this experience so don’t feel shy and email.

  5. “There is also the problem of the guys who aren’t virgins but might as well be.”

    Not sure what you mean by this, but I probably belong to this group. I’ve never gone to a whore but have had sex with a girl who effectively was one.

    • What I mean by “not virgins but might as well be” are guys who aren’t virgins, but only have had sex a few times in their lives. These are guys who even though they have had sex a few times, there is no real detectable difference between me and them. I know quite of few guys in this group. Either they get lucky once every 5 years or once a decade, or they have gone to hookers a few times. In other words actually having sex hasn’t turned them into guys women want. The guys who have gone to hookers realized that it wasn’t doing anything for them except making their wallets lighter so they stopped going to hookers. These are the guys I’m talking about. They’re important to bring up because the dispell the myth that getting laid by any means possible (i.e. hookers) will make you attractive to women, and because they show there are non-virgins who are in the same boat as guys like me.

      • Well, relatively few men have the type of personality that women are attracted to. Most guys will have sex with a few women by virtue of not fucking up or just plain luck, so “almost virgins” is a huge category of men.
        I agree that having sex with a whore doesn’t really change anything for men. A man who loses his virginity to a whore is just as unattractive as when he was still a virgin. I could describe my own experience as seeing an unpaid escort, the money issue is immaterial. Whatever feelings there might have been ceased to exist outside of bed. It didn’t matter if I paid her nothing or a few thousand dollars for her time.

        • Most guys will have sex with a few women by virtue of not fucking up or just plain luck, so “almost virgins” is a huge category of men.

          There’s a difference between a man who had sex with 3 women but in multi-year relationships with them so he had a lot of sex with each and a man who had sex with the same number of women one time each. The latter is an almost virgin, but the former is not.

  6. Am I the only reader of this blog who actually knows decent, non-abusive, non-lying, non-gold-digging attractive women? I’m still pretty sure if I really sounded off on this blog about my views on women I’d be declared an evil mangina or whatever the right term is. But if so, so what? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I still would defend W&N against the inanity of “Feminist Time Machine” arguments and give him credit for pointing out that it’s not just about dating and that his perceptions are based on experience. According to Roissy’s scale I’m somekind of hopeless beta or whatever but I do meet, date, sleep with attractive decent women. Are they really ALL as bad? If W&N keeps on going as a successful professional in his field, he’ll eventually come across women who will respect him as a man and treat him decently even though they don’t want something from him, aren’t trying to get him to do something for them, etc. … even if they aren’t interested in dating him. Earlier in life I didn’t have much success with women but I was fortunate to know attractive women who knew how to let a guy know they weren’t interested in dating him WITHOUT conveying disrespect for him as a man. A woman who can turn down a guy and still convey that she sees him fully as a man, and doesn’t want to exploit him is a true gem. Having female friends like that built my confidence even though no one I was attracted to was interested in me that way at the time. Those kind of women can be good for guys in W&N’s position. Eventually I think he will come across some. Note that I’m not talking about women who would date him…just women who would treat him decently not because of ulterior motives but because they respect him as a man. If that happened, W & N, would your opinion about women change (even just a little) since it’s about more than just dating?

    • Lol… No you’re not the only one who believes that there’s good women.

      The thing is, that the guys who believe all women are the ones who are gonna comment or talk about their belief. And for (me, us) to stop them and go “you know, not all women are bad” would be disrespectful and have no point.

      So if you wanna do that, there’s no use to it here.

    • Respecting someone as a man and “treating him decently” does not carry the same meaning as being in a relationship with someone and choosing to be seen in public with them, interacting in a way that is easily and correctly interpreted that you are “in a relationship with them”.

      That respecting someone as a man and “treating him decently” reminds me of the cop-out that nasty girls use against good men “Oh, I think of you only as a friend, let’s just be friends” (Now that I’ve said I’m not interested in you and say you must be my friend, I can be as shitty as I want towards you and you cannot speak up against it because you are such a nice guy AND you’re my friend).

      Decent men wanting good relationships must be willing to tell the women that bring nothing but burdens into his life, to take a hike.
      Because, spending time with such women also means spending time away from the good woman, or spending time away from more productive interests.
      “If you’re not fulfilling your objectives, you’re fulfilling someone elses'”.

    • If that happened, W & N, would your opinion about women change (even just a little) since it’s about more than just dating?

      Sure, but that hasn’t happened and I see no evidence that it ever will.

  7. That respecting someone as a man and “treating him decently” reminds me of the cop-out that nasty girls use against good men “Oh, I think of you only as a friend, let’s just be friends” (Now that I’ve said I’m not interested in you and say you must be my friend, I can be as shitty as I want towards you and you cannot speak up against it because you are such a nice guy AND you’re my friend).

    Or she could just be genuinely after a platonic male friend. My closest friend besides my wife is female – we had sex a few times in the early 1990s, but for various reasons the physical side didn’t work out. But we remain terrific friends to this day – largely because we’re completely honest with each other and DON’T treat each other like shit. Because if we did, that would be the end of our friendship – why bother continuing with it if we no longer get anything pleasurable out of it?

    If both people are completely honest with each other, these arrangements can work well – where things fall apart is if one secretly (or openly) lusts after the other or, far worse, if one still thinks there’s a hope of a spark igniting even though the other has made it clear that they’re not interested. So if that’s all you’re after, or a crucial part of what you’re after, then cut your losses and move on.

    Decent men wanting good relationships must be willing to tell the women that bring nothing but burdens into his life, to take a hike.

    Absolutely. And when I followed that advice by finally ditching someone about whom alarm bells had been jangling for several weeks (what led to the final split was my stumbling upon hard evidence that she’d told me a direct lie about something important to the relationship’s future), I met my future wife within the next 24 hours.

    But the way I met her was thanks to a combination of circumstances and timing that meant it was almost inconceivable that we’d have met if I’d decided to try to keep a clearly disastrous relationship going.

    So if it’s not working, be honest about it and move on. There are at least three billion other women on the planet.

  8. I was reading the loveshack forum today and saw this thread about awkward men and if they can find someone. It seems the consensus there is that it is the mans fault and he needs to “get over” himself like one poster said. Never mind the women who pass the shy awkward man over and thieir picky and arrogant ways.

    It is always that unless the man is super good looking and super outgoing it is his fault he is alone. The women are never held to any standards and that is what irritates me to no end. So I guess it is the fault of the quiet guy completely ans society has no compassion or respect for him.

    I should bring up that it was a man who started this topic. So much for getting any decent advice. I do congradulate him for bringing it up in that forum but am not surprised of all the shaming he got.

    http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t300385/c2d5366957f104158284e3b61114ebac

    • It’s funny how the women who pass the shy, awkward man over …
      always seem to return once they have lost the ability to be with men they are attracted to.
      I tell my friends not to marry or date single girls their age, as they are usually a lot more “experienced” in relationships, and are usually looking for a fallback position.

    • Most dating and relationship boards are a waste of time for non-alpha men. This is just one of a trillion examples.

      None of them will admit that awkward men were created by how women treated them. That would involve holding women responsible for their actions.

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