55 comments on “Roissy Has Done More To Delay The Progress Of Mens Rights Than Anyone

  1. I am confused. Roissy has delayed the MRM from doing what exactly? I don’t see any real plan of action by the MRM, so I don’t understand what has been delayed.

    • You’ve never visited Paul Elam’s site then.

      In a very short time he has done a ton. MRAs almost got sharon osbourne fired, had CBS issuing apologies, they are now making universities back down and plead and start negotiating.

      They had a famous man-hating blogger pull down a man-hating post and plead to MRAs for forgiveness.

      Have you not followed the cases with Vladek Filler and his feminazi prosecutor? They instilled so much fear into her that she tried to order court to issue a gag order on MRAs and they have managed to get a bar-review on the bitch.

      And they’re just getting started, and I only listed 1/10 of what has been done. The MRA’s efforts and activism is multiplying at breakneck speeds.

      • It’s true that I don’t follow politics. For divorced guys who accept modern culture and think a few tweaks of the law would solve everything, I can understand how it would seem that the MRM is making progress. But the name of this blog is “Omega Virgin Revolt” and I don’t see how anything the MRM is doing would make any difference to someone who considers himself an “Omega Virgin”. For someone like this, and for me, the problem is cultural. And since the MRM is doing nothing to change culture, I don’t understand the point of this blog post from the point of view of the author of this blog.

        • white and nerdy, suppose sexual harassment laws and feminist funding were dropped (which is exceeding unlikely no matter what MRAs do). Would you then be satisfied? I wouldn’t. American women are simply monsters and are intolerable. The law is so far from just that small changes mean very little. If you haven’t traveled to a non-feminist country, then you may not know what I mean. But I think modern feminist culture is so far gone that nothing short of repealing women’s suffrage could fix it, and MRAs avoid talking about any fundamental issues like this. In my view, the right answer is to withdraw from society and look for alternative subcultures, particularly religions, as a place to find cultural sanity. Expatting is also a reasonable option.

        • white and nerdy, suppose sexual harassment laws and feminist funding were dropped (which is exceeding unlikely no matter what MRAs do). Would you then be satisfied?

          There are several other things I would add such as the false rape industry, although that has not affected me personally. To answer your question I wouldn’t be “satisfied”, but I would be free. There are two seperate but overlaping things here, American women/Western women being monsters and the government controlled by those monsters. The second is my primary concern because it can deprive me of my assets, livelihood, freedom and/or life. That that away and while American/Western women don’t change they can’t harm you.

  2. The problem with the argument in the above link is that getting laid and MRM are not exactly related, because MRM is not about getting laid. MRM does not teach people how to get laid, nor is it concerned whether you are getting any ass or not.

    What it is concerned with is the unfair treatment of men in a variety of inter-sexual relationships, which might involve getting laid or not. It is also concerned with the unfair treatment of men in general.

    I do not know what constitutes a sexual loser, but a large portion of MRAs are fathers. This means in PUA terms, winners in the biological race for reproduction, provided the children are theirs, which they most often are. And fathers get a rough deal these days.

    Plenty of MRAs have girlfriends.

    I for my self had a string of girlfriends from teenage years, and sensed that women these days are rotten very early on. I am sure that PUAs will tell me that if I had game my string of asses would be longer. No thanks! It was therefore only natural that I eventually discovered MRAs, who put everything into perspective.

    What perspective do PUA douchebags provide?

  3. I am a bit more nihilistic about the MRM. It would take a massive effort to overcome the inertia of PC leftist, Marxist, feminist thought. I’d rather just see it all collapse and then rebuild.

    Someone else may have pointed this out before but there is quite an age gap between gamers and MRAs. Gamers are young, brash, and think nothing bad can happen to them if they play their cards right. Men who become MRAs are much older and learn through experience by going through divorce courts. They seem to be at two different stages of life.

    • Someone else may have pointed this out before but there is quite an age gap between gamers and MRAs. Gamers are young, brash, and think nothing bad can happen to them if they play their cards right. Men who become MRAs are much older and learn through experience by going through divorce courts. They seem to be at two different stages of life.

      I wouldn’t agree with this. I can think of many older gamers. The married gamers are a good example. There’s also plenty of younger MGTOW which I have seen on places like the MGTOW Forums.

      • I think it has to do with maturity and life-experience, not age.

        One piece of proof for this theory is that guys who fall for game are the same people who fall for crap like paleo diet.

        Most people have outgrown diet-fads by their mid twenties – some 40 year old men however fall for the same diet-fads that teenage-girls do.

        These are the same guys going for game.

    • The difference seems not one of age, but one of basic attitude towards self-respect. Some guys dont give a shit if they pussy beg, and some guys do. Thats the dividing line between gamers and MRAs.

      Some people just really dont like doing what others tell them they should be doing and like to to live life according to their own dictates. They are just ornery that way. These guys really cant stand game.

      Other guys dont care if they submit themselves as long as they get sex for it.

  4. gee whatta strange coincidence! — recently the m.r.m. is making rapid progress in freeing minds from the MaTricks, and suddenly, here come attacks from a group of mere Players, claiming they’re part of the m.r.m. while simultaneously undermining the movement and its activists, as alek novy points out

    sounds like the m.r.m. is starting to make the PTB and certain vested interests VERY nervous lol!!

    if the perception in the public mind can be shifted to believe the m.r.m. is just a bunch of woman-haters PLUS a bunch of post-adolescent pick-up jockeys, well, you get the idea

    soon the m.r.m. would come to be associated with pussybegging solipsism, and lose its authenticity and potency in the public consciousness

    who benefits from that? our femsupremacist culture and our femsupremacist State

    you give this roissy character too much credit (and he’s already a full-time P.R. machine as it is)

    some of his writings are pretty good – the ones that stick to pointing out the realities (and faults) of western women

    but his cult of Gamers is just sad, and takes advantage of the post-feminist generations of fatherless, and just plain lost, young men

    • I’m not so sure that the MRM is on the PTB’s radar yet. However, this is something the conspiracy theorists should be on top of yet none of them are. Even though there probably is no attempt by the PTB to destroy the MRM yet, at least the conspiracy theorists will be doing something useful for a change.

    • According to Alek, Roissy has LTRs with women he met through friends. That means he does what everyone else does, you don’t need knowledge of game for that. Roissy does not even practice what he preaches.

      • Most of them don’t. Very few PUAs actually do pickup beside simply approaching and practicing openers.

        The few PUAs who actually do pickup (off the street, the club) do so with massive numbers-gaming. Meaning they admit upfront that they approach a 100 women to lay one.

        The guys who only approach, and “game” without ever going for the sex or the phone number have a very nice rationalization.

        They convince themselves that they are a guru based on how well women react to his approach. “Oh, I could have had her if I wanted to, but I have a girlfriend”.

        So in essence, they never test their theories past a well-received approach. Anyone with enough experience will tell you that you can become the world’s grandmaster at approaching, but still be a virgin.

  5. I think Roissy’s done a lot to show how deep the rot goes. Remember: he probably gets a load of pageviews, and commenters tease out that truth that a man in honest love, will be taken advantage of by a calculating woman. Whiskey, GBFM, gunslingergregi, obsidian and many others have pointed this out.
    So, player or not, many men get warned that cupcake may have been an expired product, waiting for a foolish buyer.
    And once again I’d like to reiterate that someone can only become a player once they’ve had their hearts thoroughly smashed by a girl they sincerely love.

    Notice that most women are deliberately selecting for men who are indifferent to them …
    while telling the guy that wants to be with them, that “she is in love with the indifferent man”, and making all sorts of excuses for his attitude … while giving the nice guy no such latitude.

    Men’s Rights would be even more of an afterthought if women were unaffected by it.
    The only reason it is gaining more traction is because second wives, grandmothers missing their grandchildren, and female relatives of the falsely accused are becoming angry at the resource deprivation they have to go through: make no mistake, it’s about what SHE wants.
    The fact that the men get justice, is, I would say, an afterthought.
    The real acid test about whether (American-type) women are fair … is whether they work to get rid of VAWA(or similar laws in their locale).

    • I would not be so pessimistic. Men’s Rights is growing because an increasing number of men are waking up, and smelling the coffee. Concerns of second wives and paternal grandmothers are an afterthought. These women do little to promote the Men’s Rights…

      • PUAs like to spread pessimism about MRA because if men woke up – then PUA loses clients.

        The truth is that the MRA is EXPLODING (with a big help from Paul Elam and Angry Harry…

        Is it a coincidence that precisely when the MRA started growing wildly that the PUAs got anxious and started biting like the little dogs they are?

        • One particularly funny PUA theory about relationship of their clique and MRA is that they are the party of youth. I have to say that I admire the marketing value of this BS, but it is still BS.

        • It’s not a coincidence but it’s not a conspiracy either. Fringe scams looking for a mark thought they found one in the MRM. That’s all there is to it.

  6. I’m not a big fan of MRA or PUA personally because they both seem like two opposing extremes to solve the problem. MGTOW is the best solution to solve the problem of Anglo-Saxon women. PUA seems too intent on adapting to the culture and whims of Anglo-Saxon women hence only worsening the problem.

    However, MRA seems too intent on destroying it legally, which isn’t going to work because the problem is cultural. Personally, I’m just going to follow MGTOW and I could care less what MRA and PUA extremists to satisfy their whims. I could care less about getting laid with as many women as possible like most PUAs want to and I could care less about trying to fight the current Anglo-Saxon system.

    I just want to find a good woman that isn’t tainted by the culture to spend the rest of my life with. Call me old-fashioned or delusional for thinking that there are good women out there that won’t abuse the system, but I know they are out there because I have met them, even though they’re a minority.

    • It’s not a surprise that all those “good women” who also support men’s rights are either married, widowed (and hence too old to date) or in a committed relationship.
      Women are never called out on their BS, in the sense of while telling you that “you are such a nice guy”, that they do not want you for themselves or offer to fix you up with someone they know … or both.

      • Whether a woman is good or not has nothing to do with her being single or in a relationship. It’s either she’s good or she’s not and women that are married or in relationships can be against men’s rights and ridicule lonely single men as well. Likewise, a single woman can be supportive of men’s rights and be empathetic or attracted to another single lonely guy if she has her in the right place. This idea that all women are bad is getting old fast. They’re just like men, there are evil ones and there are good ones. They just express it differently than men.

        • Most of the “good” ones are “standing up for men in their heads”(chels@dalrock) and hence never get around to physically demonstrating their belief that they are supportive.

          If the only women on our side are women who are comfortably isolated from social interaction … it sends out the signal that they’re only willing to support mens’ rights for their piece of the pie. In other words, they come to us only when the feminist machine works against them. Opportunistic.

          They want to gain all the opportunities of being social with women, while saying they believe in men’s rights.

          At which point of a currency being counterfeit (here, the bad women who seem to vastly outnumber the good ones), do you say that the currency is worthless?

          “Getting old fast”? You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

  7. I agree with P Ray about Roissy. He has shown us how ROTTEN things are between men & women; though many of us already knew that, he articulated what we all thought about dating, relationships, etc.

  8. WN… I’m giving up.

    Gamers have over-taken the MRA and even most of the guys who are not gamers, buy into it and will seem to tolerate the gamers.

    I have done all I could – but I just give up… I give up. It seems the entire MRA will have to suffer for 3-5 years until the current generation goes through the cycle of gamer-dom.

    That’s about the average period it takes a person in PUA to leave it and become an anti-PUA… It seems the only thing that will help is if the current crop of Roissy-ites become anti-gamers, which they will within 3-5 years.

    But we’re fucked – we don’t have 5 years to wait for a strong men’s movement…

    • I know the feeling. There are times I want to give up and shut down this blog because what’s the point? When I started blogging I had real hope the MRM was going someplace. Now it’s clear that the MRM is innundated with gamers, paleo diet morons, conspiracy theorists, white supremacists, and other assorted freaks and nutjobs. The main thing that keeps me blogging is that if I stopped, my enemies would get to declare victory over me.

      • doesn’t sound like a good idea. You, Alek and Richard put out a lot of comments and situations that resonate with many men.
        Making it very hard for it to be said that “Not All Women Are Like That”.
        Remember that a blog is like a conversation which can be overheard by others … and that the people who would _love_ to see you shut down are those trying to perpetually take advantage of others.

        • doesn’t sound like a good idea. You, Alek and Richard put out a lot of comments and situations that resonate with many men.
          Making it very hard for it to be said that “Not All Women Are Like That”.
          Remember that a blog is like a conversation which can be overheard by others … and that the people who would _love_ to see you shut down are those trying to perpetually take advantage of others.

          I know, but it’s so exhausting to not see any real progress happen.

        • What kind of “progress” are you expecting?
          Anti-gamers/non-players take longer for their work to bear fruit. HOWEVER,
          by building themselves up and gaining property or job portability,
          they become the kind of men who can pick up stakes and go where the ratio of desirable women are higher … and work their economic situation to their advantage.

          Besides that, the recession hasn’t fully hit women yet. In the UK, fully 50% of all bankruptcies are women. Through their useless degrees and entitled attitudes, they are making themselves less desirable.

          Anti-gamers and non-players are those who work the odds that take longer. In other words, they are in the position to create fun at a moments’ notice … because they OWN the fun venue. However, when you have (financially) arrived you will be able to make it clear to women that don’t meet your standards to leave … and the ones who do stay understand what they can lose if they choose to be careless with your feelings.

  9. Alek, your efforts are not without effect. I can honestly say your writings did a LOT to turn me off of game. I was moving in that direction anyways, but you definitely accelerated the process for me. i am quite sure you have done the same for countless others, even if they are not vocal about it. You have startlingly novel insights that have a way of catching people off guard and shaking them out of their complacency. For a while I did not quite understand where you were coming from (what, you mean NO trying to be impressive at all?!?!?!?!), because it seemed such a radical position. But eventually it sank through.

    But yeah, most people are not persuaded by argument. They really DO need a few years of seeing it does not work. Heck, even I needed that.

    Its a pretty gloomy state of affairs. I dont know what to say.

    • Ya I know, coz all the anti-gamers and ex-gamers I’ve helped deconvert tell me so privately…

      But you guys still leave me to fight the gamers on my own. I can’t be a one-man army.

      There’s 10x more anti-gamers than gamers on AVfM for example, but I’m the only one speaking up – all the rest just watch.

      • Alek, keep at it, Old Sport.

        I enjoy reading your postings. I agree with more than I disagree. I hold my hands up because I thought you were a troll at first but I now know that this is not the case.

        Put it this way: it was my discovery of the game blogs that led me to the MRA blogs. I didn’t quite ‘get it’ at first, but now I think I do.

        Btw, I read your post about ‘AMOGs’ on your own blog and partly disagree with it. I think it’s OK to have a few ways to deal with idiots who steam in on you. But I think it’s more about ‘good ways to deal with idiots’ rather than ‘game’.

      • But you guys still leave me to fight the gamers on my own. I can’t be a one-man army.

        I have decided to stay out of the Elam/Frost debate. My presence wouldn’t help matters, and it would give gamers another vector to attack Paul Elam.

        There’s 10x more anti-gamers than gamers on AVfM for example, but I’m the only one speaking up – all the rest just watch.

        It’s the same problem with conspiracy theory. Both the anti-conspiracy theorists and the anti-gamers get worn down so much trying to convince insane and/or stupid people that they’re wrong, they just throw up their hands and give up. The problem is that the gamers and the conspiracy theorists can generate infinite amounts of bullshit so it becomes an unwinnable battle.

        • This revolt isn’t won by unceasingly trying to convince the wilfully stupid. However articles and updates from time to time of what you watch in the world around you as relates to how the genders interact with each other are both eye opening and useful to mine for information and come to conclusions.

      • Not entirely true, alek.

        I have posted on all the debates at AVFM under a different moniker, and have posted extensively on some of these game blogs, including Frosts.

        But as WN astutely point out below, game like a conspiracy theory will always have 10x more people in favor than not.

        • But as WN astutely point out below, game like a conspiracy theory will always have 10x more people in favor than not.

          I’m not sure, but I think WN meant the opposite – i.e. I think WN agreed that there’s far more of us anti-gamers than gamers, it’s just that anti-gamers don’t give a fuck enough to argue.

        • Ah, quite true!

          See this is why we love you Alek 😉 You are great at spotting the subtle but crucial logical distinctions that we sometimes gloss over in our lazy reading. It is a rare talent.

  10. Alek,

    Do NOT leave, please! Your powerful and persuasive posts are good; you articulate all the problems I have with Game/PUA better than I ever could. As you know, I’m anti-game also. While I’ll concede that the Gamers may have a few good points about women’s natures, that’s where their usefulness ends. Changing your personality to get skanks just is NOT worth it. Keep at it, Mate!

    MarkyMark

  11. I will join the fight.

    I have never been to AVfM before, so thanks for the heads-up.

    Here is the result of an anti-game tangent I participated in at Dalrock’s:

    Paragon says:
    October 24, 2011 at 9:46 pm
    @ rmax

    “The above by paragon is basic anti-game nonsense, everyone knows women dont judge on looks, they go on the observed context of a man”

    Please define ‘context’ in a meaningful, falsifiable way – in a way that science can speak to.

    “Also his attempts to falsely re-define confidence is wrong, confidence & extreme acts of confidence trigger biological receptors biologically for a woman”

    Define confidence please?

    By any meaningful definition, confidence is not an a priori quantity – it cannot be disentangled from it’s dependencies.

    Confidence exists only so far as to say something about these other variables.

    So, when one observes confidence correlated with a given outcome, it can only speak to a dependency.

    Correlation does not equal causation.

    “His attempts to falsely redefine basic pua is concepts is laughable bad …”

    I’m not trying to redefine anything – I’m merely pointing out that much of game/pua canon fails to agree with an evolutionary synthesis.

    Paragon says:

    October 25, 2011 at 11:16 am

    “Game is largely a myth – a popular fiction synthesized to embellish male success with a basis in real quantities of evolutionary value.

    Trivial observations that seemingly confirm ‘game’, are observing nothing more than spurious correlations.

    The quest for a practically learned skill that can ‘bend’ female choice is a fools errand, because in order for evolution to work opportunistically, it must cull (in particular)male frequencies every generation.”

    Paragon says:

    October 25, 2011 at 9:14 pm
    @ Anonymous Reader

    “This is a strawman. Your argument appears to be against something that no one is calling Game.”

    If, indeed, no one were claiming this, then I would have no issue.

    “Paragon, if you wish to pontificate on the issue of Game, I would suggest you do so at heartiste.wordpress.com, although reading the site prior to posting might be a good idea.”

    I’ve been there(and was not impressed)

    But, if you could direct me to a consistent, commonly held definition of ‘game’, I would appreciate it.

    Paragon says:

    October 26, 2011 at 10:09 pm
    @ Anonymous Reader

    “I’m not aware of any commonly held definition of “game”, perhaps that is part of your difficulty.

    There was no accurate, rigorous, definition of gravity for a very long time, and yet humans managed to use gravity to their

    advantage nevertheless. This is a hint…”

    Yes, but once gravity was identified, and observed scientifically, it was quickly unified into a consistent working theory of natural laws.

    “So what’s your point?”

    Begs the question why ‘game’ has not.

    But, it occurs that since there are only two *conflicting* quantities of evolutionary value in consideration of female mate choice(those implied in short-term and long-term mating), then game, even undefined, must address one or the other(but not both).

    And, I think it is uncontroversial to say that ‘game’ is popularly appealed to in terms of short-term mating(ie. hook-ups), as the quantity in question.

    So, a problem occurs in the observation of ‘naturals’(an accepted premise of game convention) – demonstrating game as a behavioral phenomenon of ‘handicapping’ load(via the handicap principle), rather than some cryptic fitness indicator.

    From that perspective, ‘game’ doesn’t sound very flattering.

    To elaborate – in applying the ‘handicap principle’, it tells us that those whose success threshold is lower in terms of ‘game’, are displaying greater indications of genetic fitness, given that any greater effort will allude to a fitness handicap.

    This is because fitness signals have evolved to be energetically costly to display, where the quality of signals are handicap limited – where these handicaps can be manifest through differentials in observable ‘effort'(or any other kind of relative energetic liability).

    “I doubt that Game will ever by rigorously defined, because the area it addresses – human sexual attraction – is very “fuzzy” and not at all clean/crisp in terms of action-reaction.”

    Paragon says:
    October 27, 2011 at 10:15 pm
    @ Anonymous Reader

    It is not for want of rigor, but consistency.

    “Why must it address one or the other, but not both?”

    Because, they are evolutionary strategies with conflicted optima in time variance(long-term vs. short-term).

    “I do not understand this sentence.”

    What game really is, is a display of sexual confidence – which is circular to it’s justification(ie. those who are justifiably confident of continued future success, need expend less effort – in terms of handicapping – in trying to embellish themselves through ‘game’).

    “For example, if a man “knows” that women do not really enjoy sex all that much, but will do it with a man they are married to for procreation it is a shock to find out that women will do all sorts of sexual experiments with a man who displays the right cues of dominance to her but not necessarily with any other man.”

    And what evidence is there that ‘dominance’ is the determinant of female sexual choice?

    In fact, there’s quite alot of evidence falsifying this premise.

    Furthermore, where mate access is no longer a function of subordinate status concessions in prevailing human populations(compared to the way it works in smaller populations typical of early hominid ‘troops’, and those of other primates), dominance can say nothing about its distribution(given that density dependence means large populations have marginalized mating concessions to a negligible quantity).

    “However, the fact remains that single men, men in LTR’s, pick up artists, men who have been married for decades – all report that applying even the most basic principles of Game often obtain the result of more sexual attention from women in their life, and less bad behavior from those women. In short, “it works”. No matter how much some people don’t like that, it doesn’t change the facts.”

    What facts?

    Unverifyable anecdotes from people who are psychologicallly/emotionally/financially invested in game to begin with?

    Sorry, but that’s not very compelling.

  12. “The above by paragon is basic anti-game nonsense, everyone knows women dont judge on looks, they go on the observed context of a man”

    Lol, there’s only several THOUSAND studies that conclusively prove how much of a factor looks are in getting laid.

    These gamers are such brain-washed zombies.

    I think the common way a gamer miss-understands this evolutionary truth is by misreading it as “oh, so you’re saying only BradPitt can get laid”.

    That’s not the case. It doesn’t mean “handsome guys”. It just means that the type of women you can be attractive to is limited by your facial shape.

    Heck, the women who like brad pitt don’t like johnny depp, and vice-versa.

    You are limited by your body-structure and facial structure. That doesn’t mean you won’t ever bang a hot chick. It just means your success-rate will be determined by this biological bottleneck that no technique can change.

    • the women who like brad pitt don’t like johnny depp

      I dont know if this was chosen unwittingly or not, but you have chosen the perfect example. Almost all women I know who like Brad Pitt dont like Johnny Depp – those two are the perfect pair to choose to illustrate the fault line in womens tastes.

      • Yes, I use that example because it’s the most famous one.

        But the fact is that women have types. And those types have more to do with being of a certain structure rather than handsomness.

        The chick who likes Brad Pitt would reject a Johnny Depp look-alike, but she’d fuck a not-so-handsome guy who’s within her range of types.

  13. Alek,

    I know you know me. Haha, please fight the good fight mate. I have a full time job and I barely get to access AVFM long enough to chime in. The fact of the matter is, you often enough eloquently put into words what we are thinking the moment we read the debate so it would be a rather redundant to repeat the same sentiments as the PUA’s would most likely rip our counter-arguments apart by saying that we are just touting the same stuff that you are. Honestly, the vigor that you display is something of legend, dude. I’m not trying to pedestalize your character but to edify your convictions. Please keep up the fight. You have many, if not numerous, allies on your side. I was actually looking for a compatriot who would be willing to join me on a crusade against these so-called Christian married gamers like Dalrock and Athol Kay. These assbags have been shouting from High Heaven that the fabled 11th commandment is to “Thou Shalt Learn Game to Sustain Thine Marriage”. Take a gander at Dalrock’s blog and let’s brainstorm on kicking his ass of Cloud 9. I’m being serious. I can’t eloquently verbalize the raw fury and hate that you can, but I am willing to do my part.

    With fraternal love and brotherhood,

    Crimson Viceroy

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