51 comments on “The Paleo Diet Works As Well As Game Does

  1. The paleo diet works as well as game does. IOW it doesn’t.

    Technically, both paleo and game “work”.

    -> If you eat less calories than you take in, you will lose weight.

    -> If you approach a larger number of women, you will end up bedding a higher number of them.

    Just clarifying for anyone new here who might misread or misconstrue this as someone saying you can’t lose weight or can’t get laid. Yes, people who call themselves gamers have gotten laid (i have, and so have many former ex-gamers at times of our lives when we thought we were “doing game”)

    What is meant by “game doesn’t work or paleo doesn’t work”. Is that you will get no results above placebo. In other words, the same results as cutting calories any other way, or approaching and escalating women any other way.

    The technicality here is that:

    -> both paleo and game are a religion that promise better-than-placebo results

    -> any results ever gotten on either are gotten through proxy and false-attribution error

    -> (you end up eating less calories while believing calories don’t matter, and lose weight, and then attribute it to a conspiracy theory that tricked you into eating less)

    -> (you end up approaching, talking to and escalating more chicks with a higher confidence in success, which gets you a better result than before when you didn’t )

    So your question at this point would be “Ok, then why does it matter? Doesn’t that mean the end-result is good? It gets guys to eat less, leave the house and talk to more women?”

    The answer is “In theory yes, in practice it rarely happens”. What does happen more often is that after getting that initial small by-placebo or by-proxy results, most gamers and paleos become religious fanatics who spend more time selling their religion onto others rather than applying it… which is why most get laid less than BP and look like blobs.

    It is PRECISELY the religious-like-fervor and narrative that gets most of its adherents feeling superior for simply preaching it, and why most are always postponing actually putting it into practice.

    So yes, if people actually practiced paleo/game, they would get results (no better than placebo, and at the cost of sanity and a balanced life)… But most of them don’t even practice it (re: roissy). Most of them are fattie fatsos like hawaiian mangina blob, and most of them get laid even less than black pill.

    • -> (you end up eating less calories while believing calories don’t matter, and lose weight, and then attribute it to a conspiracy theory that tricked you into eating less)

      -> (you end up approaching, talking to and escalating more chicks with a higher confidence in success, which gets you a better result than before when you didn’t )

      While this is possible, it happens less often than you think. With the paleo diet, what happens a lot (similar to the last fad diet, Atkins) is that the paleo dieter will eat less carbs but replace all of it and more with everything else. The net result is that they end up eating more calories and not less. This is one of the major reasons why so many people in those paleo pics were fat. With game, anyone using it for LTRs/marriage isn’t going to be approaching more.

      • While this is possible, it happens less often than you think.

        Actually I said it almost never happens. So I think you don’t know how rare I think it is.

        Those lines were explanations of what happens when you *do* get results*, and I explained that most people can never cause or repeat even that initial placebo-gotten result.

        And in the sentence above, the word “results” doesn’t mean actual results (defined as anything guaranteed, repeatable or consistent). I simply meant when they actually see something happen (anything at all).

        As I said…
        The answer is “In theory yes, in practice it rarely happens”.
        and
        after getting that initial small by-placebo or by-proxy results

        All the studies confirm what you’re saying. The studies show that people who get on food-type-restricting diets only get temporary and fast-lost results because of what you described.

        If you get people to (for example) eat fat-free dairy, at first they lose weight, since it has less calories per-ounce, but over-time they just end up eating more dairy, and they’re back where they began.

        Most people in these cults are going off of the few false or temporary “results” they got when first discovering the cult.

        With game, anyone using it for LTRs/marriage isn’t going to be approaching more.

        That is why I explained that most gamers don’t even approach (married or unmarried). When game does “work” i.e it tricks a guy to approach a lot, it’s very temporary, and maybe a matter of days or weeks.

        And they never-repeat that initial result. For 99.9% of gamers, they never repeat the initial experience they had when first learning of game. For most paleos they never repeat the initial 10-pound loss they had when first discovering paleo (and getting tricked into eating less). They all regain the 10-pounds, and never repeat the loss, yet stay in the cult for years.

        There are however a small percentage (let’s say 0.01%) of both gamers and paleos who do get results long-term. And again, they do only because they’re approaching a lot (or eating less calories)… and yes, the result is no better than placebo.

        • Man my comment is completely unreadable.

          I don’t give a fuck though, can’t be bothered to edit.

          Summary though, BP we actually agree, I just didn’t make the distinctions on what I mean by “works” and “results”. That’s all.

  2. Guys,

    Why do you like to bag on people? Seriously, what’s up with that? If you disagree with X, why can’t you simply say you disagree with X? I, for one, think Hawaiian Libertarian has a lot of good things to say; he’s right about a lot of things. You have to remember that, when he started using game in his marriage, he was ALREADY MARRIED; he had to make it work! It’s not as if he were like you and me; he wasn’t single. What’s wrong with him telling others what saved his marriage? Anyway, those are my thoughts for the day…

    MarkyMark

    • Mark, check your logic, it says…

      – Don’t bag on people who are teaching a damaging, deceitful cult…
      – if… those people are deluded and think that method is good.

      Nice logic mark. By your logic, no dictator or cult on planet earth should be criticized or bagged on. You do know that Stalin and Hitler believed they were doing the best for their people, you do know they actually believed they were saving humanity?

    • Why do you like to bag on people? Seriously, what’s up with that? If you disagree with X, why can’t you simply say you disagree with X?

      No one is getting “bagged on”. This isn’t a matter of simple disagreement, MM. Game and the paleo diet are both scams. For anyone, like me, who does things based on facts, logic, and the scientific method has to be opposed to both game and the paleo diet. There are plenty of other things like Scientology to be opposed to, but Scientology isn’t interfering with the Mens Rights Movement like game and the paleo diet are. That’s the real problem. In particular, there seems to be something worse about Roissysphere gamers as I have learned over the last couple of weeks. The average gamer is just someone who is misguided, but just wants to get laid and improve their social skills. The Roissysphere gamer acts like a brainwashed member of a “paleo-game-conspiracy theory” cult, and this is why they are the number one danger to the MRM.

      I, for one, think Hawaiian Libertarian has a lot of good things to say; he’s right about a lot of things.

      Hawaiian Mangina is wrong about game, the paleo diet, and conspiracy theory. That’s all he talks about so there is nothing left for him to be right about.

      You have to remember that, when he started using game in his marriage, he was ALREADY MARRIED; he had to make it work! It’s not as if he were like you and me; he wasn’t single. What’s wrong with him telling others what saved his marriage?

      What’s wrong with Hawaiian Mangina telling people that game saved his marriage? It’s a lie. That’s what is wrong. Just because Hawaiian Mangina said something happened doesn’t mean it actually did. Personal reports like these are no substitute for objective scientific data and experiments. Hawaiian Magina is a good example of how game, the paleo diet, and conspiracy theory MAJORLY FUCK YOU UP. That man has accomplished nothing, but making his life worse since adopting game, the paleo diet, and conspiracy theory. Before he got involved in all this BS, at the very least he was employed. Now he isn’t, and he treats his unemployment like it’s some sort of virtue.

      One thing I have noticed about conspiracy theorists (and by extension paleo dieters and Roissysphere gamers) is the inability to take actual action on anything. If I believed that there’s some conspiracy to murder 90% of the world population like Hawaiian Mangina does, I would be trying to DO SOMETHING about it. I wouldn’t spend all my time blogging about the 833rd way that the Rockefellers run everything. (“Raising awareness” doesn’t count as doing something because it’s really preaching to the choir.)

      If you’re actually interested in rolling back feminism, then these people are enemy number one (besides the feminists themselves).

      • These days, anyone whoever mentions feminism in a negative context is automatically branded “one of our own”, which is just silly.

        The only reason conspiracy theorists like Hawaiian blob are mentioning feminism negatively is because they make conspiracy theories about everything. They just throw everything and everything into that grinder.

        This morning for example… I saw a guy walking around the street YELLING… like running toward the janitors and yelling something about the end of the world, and how the janitors are in on it (because they work for the city council)…

        Then he ran and yelled something about aliens, and then he started running into traffic, yelling at the cars (talking to the headlights I think)… This went on for like 40 minutes (while he was in my sight I mean).

        By Marky’s logic, if this nutcase had also yelled “And those goddamned feminists, they’re in on it too, they’re part of the alien plan too” —> I should have befriended the nutcase?

        Come on, get real. Not everybody that mentions feminism in a negative light is an ally. We’re not that desperate.

        • The only reason conspiracy theorists like Hawaiian blob are mentioning feminism negatively is because they make conspiracy theories about everything. They just throw everything and everything into that grinder.

          And when conspiracy theorists do that anti-feminism becomes meaningless. Guys like Hawaiian Fat Blob say they’re against feminism, but in what meaningful way are they against feminism? Saying feminism is bad because it’s something the Jews/Rockefellers/Illuminati did doesn’t tell me why feminism is bad. If conspiracy theorists didn’t think that the Jews/Rockefellers/Illuminati were involved with feminism, then they would have no problem with it. To me that makes them de facto feminists, since they would be willing to support feminism in a different context.

          PMAFT has talked about how the MRM will eventually become part of all these conspiracies which makes sense since like you said, everything gets thrown into the conspiracy theory grinder. Since the conspiracy theorists will turn on us when the MRM becomes large enough/influential enough, then why should be include them now?

  3. What about the truth Mark? Has that no value? It is an illusion to think that people are not harmed by the lies they tell themselves. They can waste years of their lives torturing themselves over nothing more than delusions in their heads.

    Game seriously fucks people up – I lost years of my life, but you say I should not now cry out when I see gamers selling their scams? No way! I am going to call them out on their bullshit so that other innocent guys who dont know any better wont get hurt like I did. And hey, maybe even the gamers will be jolted into some kind of awareness, who knows.

    Its the same for paleo, it fucks you up and makes you FATTER and gives you a tortured relationship to food.

    In short, these gamers and paleo dudes are seriously hurting others – I WAS SERIOUSLY HURT BY BOTH FADS – yet you ask why we *bag* on them!

    These dudes are a destructive force (even if not intentionally, and in many cases it is even intentional)- they need to be stopped and the as yet uncommited need to hear an alternative viewpoint based on facts and logic

    • Game seriously fucks people up – I lost years of my life, but you say I should not now cry out when I see gamers selling their scams? No way! I am going to call them out on their bullshit so that other innocent guys who dont know any better wont get hurt like I did. And hey, maybe even the gamers will be jolted into some kind of awareness, who knows.

      Its the same for paleo, it fucks you up and makes you FATTER and gives you a tortured relationship to food.

      In short, these gamers and paleo dudes are seriously hurting others – I WAS SERIOUSLY HURT BY BOTH FADS – yet you ask why we *bag* on them!

      By Mark’s logic, if you travel back in time and you’re alone with Hitler in a room, holding a gun, you shouldn’t use it, knowing what you know, because apparently Hitler really believes what he’s selling…

      Some fucked up logic that is mark…

      Listen marky, EVERY ex-gamer I know (and there’s thousands of us) feel cheated, robbed, angry and mad. We WISH there was someone to warn us back in the day. We feel this crap stole YEARS off of our lives and fucked us up more than any other thing we had ever encountered in life.

      All the thousands of ex-gamers are mad and angry, not all are speaking out, because the majority of them feel guilty and blame themselves. It’s hard coming out and saying “I was duped in giving 5 years of my life to a cult, you don’t do it”. They just run away from it.

      So don’t tell the few who are brave enough to fight their former cult to shut up. Please.

  4. Guys,

    I want to make a couple of points WRT the previous comments.

    George, I am interested in the truth. Why do you think I’m asking the questions?! Believe it or not, I have raised problems and questions with game. I do not practice it, nor do I have the desire to. I’ve made a couple of posts about this on the blog.

    Believe it or not, I’m more on your side than that of the gamers! That said, it’s not enough to say that game doesn’t exist; it’s not enough to say that it’ll mess you up. WHY will it mess up those who practice it? How will it do so? I could go on, but you get my point. It’s not enough to state the case; you also have to MAKE the case. Understand?

    For example, concerning what happened between BP, PMAFT, & Susan Walsh, could you provide a link for me to look at? Could you cite the post in question, along with the relevant comments? Her posts regularly get hundreds of comments; a recent post of hers got over a THOUSAND! I cannot and will not sift through all of that.

    What about the exchange between Paul Elan & Frost? There were what, six posts each? Moreover, didn’t each post have tens, if not hundreds, of comments in response? Would you all help point me to which ones I should look at? I only read the first post or two of that exchange. After that, I got busy; I was tired; I didn’t have the time or energy to wade through all that CRAP.

    I have dinner now, so I’m out of here. When guys ask questions or even challenge you, don’t just say game doesn’t exist; don’t just flame ’em and call ’em stupid. YOU all may know what it is you’re saying, but there are those of us who don’t. Also, keep in mind that there are others who may be wondering too, guys who won’t comment. Those are my thoughts…

    MarkyMark

    • But Mark, Alek, myself, and others have been explaining WHY game messes you up for a very long time now on MULTIPLE blogs. On this very blog every game topic is littered with comments explaining why game is bad. You have not been paying even minimal attention. As for the Elam/Frost debate read all of Aleks and Harrys comments, and perhaps a few others I cannot recall right now.

      But assuming you are in good faith and you want a very brief rundown of the central issues I will give you one…..all these points have been fleshed out in detail and at length both here on other threads and elsewhere, so this will be very brief.

      This list is by no means exhaustive and it is just of the top of my head…..

      1) Game causes psychological suffering and damage through making you a weak man with no backbone whose chief mission in life becomes the effort to impress women. The suffering is very real and the damage to your ability to be successful in life – which requires the successful development of a firm sense of self and a strong backbone – is very real. In other words game prevents you from developing authentic self-esteem, which is necessary to a happy life.

      2) Game causes you to become socially mis-calibrated as you lose the ability to respond in an intelligent way to the signals women give you and instead try to *dominate* them and IMPOSE yourself on them.

      3) Game causes you to become in-congruent and un-smooth (weird) socially by having you lose your ability authentically convey your true personality in a natural manner. You become stilted and stiff instead of smooth and natural.

      4) Game makes you lose the natural pleasure every human being feels at expressing his true personality and being appreciated and understood by others for it – in other words it prevents genuine intimacy.

      4) Game takes all the pleasure, spontaneity, and joy out of social interactions with women as it replaces free, easy, and joyful behavior with a tedious script. Socializing begins to lose its savor.

      5) I cannot tell you how many quality girls I have lost by trying to be *alpha* and a *jerk* (chics dig jerks! chics dig jerks!) when all I succeeded in doing was antagonizing girls who were already into me. It is tragic. Sad thing is as long as I believed in Game every time I failed with women through being a pointless asshole I believed I was not alpha enough, so would be even MORE of an asshole next time- racking up even worse failures!

      I was stuck in a mental paradigm that did not allow me to see what was going on – that I was turning off women who were into me by being a pointless jerk and by feigning aloofness and disinterest in response to their signs of interest – thus driving them away because they thought I was not into them and felt hurt, and by being fake and incongruent.

      I even alienated some of close friends in my attempts to be *alpha* – I thought well if they cant handle my totally legitimate alphaness, then they are just weak, that is their problem. In reality I was just being a pointless asshole to my friends. Look at the post by that clown Yohami about how we wants to *dominate* everyone, including his friends. You dont try and dominate your friends if you want to keep them

      6) Game implants in you the belief that every time you fail with a women it is YOUR fault, and that it is because you were not *masculine* enough, thus giving you crushing feelings of inadequacy and emasculation. I remember the sense of emasculation I would feel every time I failed with a girl, firmly believing that it was simply that I failed to demonstrate *strength* or alphaness.

      These days when I am a normal human being and hook up with a hot girl in a bar, in some of the men around me I see looks of impotent rage, envy, and bitterness, and I recognize the feelings I used myself to have when I some some other guy get a hot girl I was talking to. I want to walk over to these guys and explain to them that their masculinity is not being called into question by the fact that some random women felt they were not her type, but I cannot heal the world.

      As for paleo, like a gullibe fool I did that too

      1) It made me FATTER. Every time my body CRAVED carbs and I denied it carbs, it made me eat MORE calories of meat in an attempt to fill that feeling of dissatisfaction.

      2) It left me feeling miserable and without energy, but everyone was saying how great they felt so I thought something must be wrong with ME and the way I was doing it, leading to more months of misery as I experimented.

      3) It gave me an unhealthy obsession with the contents of food that made take less pleasure in eating, and it made me deny myself foods I loved for benefits that were wholly illusory.

      • But Mark, Alek, myself, and others have been explaining WHY game messes you up for a very long time now on MULTIPLE blogs. On this very blog every game topic is littered with comments explaining why game is bad. You have not been paying even minimal attention. As for the Elam/Frost debate read all of Aleks and Harrys comments, and perhaps a few others I cannot recall right now.

        Mark is a great guy, so I have no idea why he does that.

        He’ll often ask questions about things that are answered like 10-times in depth, on the actual page he asks the question on.

        Even seductionmyth got pissed off with that 😀

        [@MarkyMark]This is strike one for you pal This time is really the last one I approve a comment about smth that has been expressly explained in other sections of this website.

        I love ya mark, so don’t take this the wrong way. It’s just that you keep asking questions without bothering reading. Every single question you have asked has either been expressly answered on the paul-elam debate, my blog, or the seductionmyth blog (also my blog has some).

        And George did an amazing job of giving a shorter summary.

        • Alek,

          Seduction Myth pointed me to a post that answered my question. After I posted that comment, I looked around his website. By the time I read his response to me, I’d already found the post in question; I read it; and my question was answered. What else can I say?

          I guess what I was asking for was something similar; I was asking for links to where you all have already made the points I’ve asked about or commented on. Like you, I don’t have time to write these long ass posts Roissy writes; I don’t have time to read all of ’em; I sure as hell don’t have time to read the long comment threads those posts have. If I can be pointed in the right direction, it’d save me time, something that I know you and BP can appreciate.

          With that said, I am starting with post #1 in the Paul Elam/Frost death match. It’s going to literally take me DAYS to get through all the posts and comments though. If you could provide links to the good stuff (e.g. your comments), it’d be much appreciated… 🙂

          MarkyMark

    • When guys ask questions or even challenge you, don’t just say game doesn’t exist; don’t just flame ‘em and call ‘em stupid. YOU all may know what it is you’re saying, but there are those of us who don’t. Also, keep in mind that there are others who may be wondering too, guys who won’t comment. Those are my thoughts…

      We have covered all of this multiple times over. You’re not new to this blog, so if you have been reading this blog almost all of your “challenges” and questions have been answered multiple times over.

      A lot of your criticism of game is more from a moral/ethical point of view (which in a way assumes game exists in the first place). For many of us, that’s secondary to whether game actually exists. We demand scientific experiments and evidence for game. This isn’t a matter of alternate points of view. It’s a matter of testable reality, and game fails that. That is especially true when it comes LTR or married game which is by definition untestable (even in principle) so it is by definition bullshit. The pickup gamers refuse to be involved in any scientific experiments whatsoever even though it would TRIPLE their book and DVD sales to be able to say scientific studies back game. MM, your “challenges” are meaningless since we have already established how their currently is no scientific basis for believing game exists. To “challenge” us on game, you need to deal with the lack of evidence and scientific experiments. “Challenging” us with “so and so says game saved his marriage” is exactly the type of unscientific bullshit that won’t fly here. It suffers from selection bias, and personal reports for something like that are by definition unreliable.

      This goes quadruple for Hawaiian Libertarian Fat Blob. If you are writing anything that starts with “Hawaiian Fat Blob says”, then you have already failed to “challenge” us. He’s wrong about not just game, but the paleo diet, conspiracy theory, and a bunch of other things. I have no idea why anyone takes him seriously. He hasn’t been able to objectively prove anything he has ever said, and his life has gotten objectively worse (i.e. losing his job) in the meantime.

  5. Guys,

    I’m just going to post thoughts as they come to mind here, so expect multiple comments.

    Concerning Susan Walsh, I never got the impression that she’s pro or anti game. I think that, as a concerned mother, she IS rightfully concerned with the sorry state of the SMP, and she’s trying to make sense of the mess. Is she curious about game? Is she fascinated with it? I think that the answer to both questions is yes. Is she pro game to the point of banning guys who question it? I don’t know. I’d have to see the exchange(s) in question to make up my own mind.

    Say what you want about Susan Walsh, at least she’s seeking SOLUTIONS! One may question the validity of her solutions; one may question whether there are solutions to the SMP mess at all. That said, at least she’s trying to, in her own small way, make things better. That’s more than I’ve done as a blogger.

    All I’ve done is point out the problems; all I’ve done is say things are messed up-and they are! Can we not agree on that much? Can we not agree that relations between men & women fall far short of where most would like them to be? So why bitch at those who are trying to make sense of it all? Why bag on those who are trying to find solutions?

    I’m going to sign off for now. When more thoughts come to mind, I’ll raise ’em…

    MarkyMark

    • All I’ve done is point out the problems; all I’ve done is say things are messed up-and they are! Can we not agree on that much? Can we not agree that relations between men & women fall far short of where most would like them to be? So why bitch at those who are trying to make sense of it all? Why bag on those who are trying to find solutions?

      First of all, if the *solutions* they are offering are DAMAGING, dont they deserve to be *bagged* on? If someone is selling you poison but thinks its food, should he not be called out on that? I dont get your mentality.

      I guess you are saying maybe we should slag the solutions but be respectful of the people offering them because they are just trying to help?

      But they are NOT trying to find solutions in GOOD FAITH. They IGNORE evidence and logic and PUSH for positions that go AGAINST the facts and that DO DAMAGE.

      If they merely offered some solution and then showed themselves open to revision through logic and evidence that would be fine. But they mock and disparage anyone who disagrees with them, they ban people who argue with them, and they refuse to subject their cherished beliefs to logical scrutiny – it is malicious irresponsibility at BEST, simple malice at worst.

      • George,

        As I stated below, I’ve only read a handful of Susan Walsh’s posts. From what little I’ve seen, I can’t say I’ve seen anything wrong with what she says. Based on her purported motives (understand the current SMP in an effort to help her 22 y/o daughter navigate it with minimum heartbreak), I couldn’t see a problem with that. I can’t fault a parent for wanting the best for their kid, and doing the best they can to help their kid(s) find and/or get that.

        I’m not saying that your criticisms aren’t true; all I’m saying is that I haven’t seen what you have seen, nothing more. For example, know NOTHING about the flap between Susan Walsh & PM/AFT. I’m not saying it didn’t happen; I’m saying I wasn’t AWARE that it had happened, let alone know of what transpired there. Hence, I asked for a link, so I could read the post and the following exchange between those two.

        MarkyMark

        • If her daughter is 22 without having had a stable relationship,
          I would venture to say she has had her share of unstable relationships. Making her, in effect, a loser … since most women have more options available to them than most men,
          Since women are the ones choosing the men that are available.
          And since it’s called “hooking up smart” (oxymoron, since hooking up by its very nature is transient), I think it’s more about screening men to find the real alpha, more than anything else.
          It certainly does a girl no favours to be in and out of relationships on a whim.

        • Mark, the truth is I dont really know much about Susan Walsh except that she promotes game. To the extent that she does that, she is not offering solutions that are in good faith and that will help people, and she is aware of enough evidence to know better.

          Others will have to give you Wals-specific info.

          My point is more about gamers and paleo promoters in general. The vast majority have access to enough evidence to know better, and the vast majority when presented with arguments, shout you down, ban you, etc.

        • I have no idea what Walsh writes either, so I have no idea whether I agree with BlackPill on her.

          We don’t agree on 100% absolutely everything. Maybe if I had time to read her I’d like her or hate her. I don’t know-so no opinion right now.

  6. George,

    Many of the criticisms you raised WRT game are the same misgivings I’ve had; I just couldn’t ARTICULATE them as well as you have. For me, it comes down to this: sooner or later, if I get involved with someone, they WILL find out who & what I am; at some point, they will see the ‘real me’. Ergo, it’s best to to be myself from the beginning, so the woman can decide whether or not she likes what I offer her. I don’t like having my time wasted, so I have a moral obligation to see that I don’t waste someone else’s time as well.

    To put it another way, a big problem I’ve always had with game is that, in effect, you’re starting off a relationship with lies. How can you not be doing this when you’re not being who you really are? Hell, Badger even ADMITTED that you have to ‘change your personality’! Is that not changing who you are? At the very least, isn’t that changing the way you present yourself to someone else? If you change the way you present yourself to someone else, are you not, in effect, telling lies to the other person? Are you not deceiving them? Isn’t deceit the heart of telling a lie in the first place? So, if you meet a good gal, what’s she going to do when she sees that you aren’t who or what she thinks you are? You’re going to lose her.

    That, and I try to live my life via the Golden Rule; I try to treat others the way I’d want them to treat me. I don’t like jerky or bitchy behavior, so I don’t treat people that way. I like being treated with dignity and respect, so I treat women the same way. If they dig jerks (and, from where I sit, many women seem to dig jerks), well, they won’t dig me. Being a jerk is not who or what I am. Again, for me, it’s all about false pretenses, something which have NO PLACE in a good, healthy relationship.

    As for Susan Walsh, I have only read a handful of her posts. I’ve never read a comment thread all the way through, either; I have neither the time nor the energy to do so. Unlike a lot of these game bloggers, I have a real life; like you guys, I have things to do, places to go, and people to see; I simply cannot write these long ass posts, let alone read through long comment threads-either @ Mrs. Walsh’s, Roissy’s or anyone else.

    Concerning the Paleo Diet, I have heard of it, mainly @ HL’s blog. If it can tell me how to eat healthier, I might be interested; if not, I won’t waste my time. I’ve never been one for following diets. Most the people I’ve known over the years who diet always seem to gain the weight back anyway! Why put yourself through the misery of depriving yourself of foods you like when it’s not going to work in the end? Why go through that adjita (sp?)?

    The only major change I’ve made in my diet is to simply EAT LESS. I still eat the same stuff I always have; I still like my pizza, burgers, and other stuff they say I shouldn’t eat. I look at it this way: no matter what I eat, it’s going to kill me-ha! Seriously though, I just eat less than I used to. For example, instead of having 4-5 slices of pizza, I’ll have 2-3 now; I just eat smaller portions of what I like. Over the last couple of years, I’ve lost 15-20 pounds. Also, I pretty much cut out having milk and cookies before going to bed; that helped too. Eating is like saving money: little changes can pay huge dividends over time. In any case, eating smaller portions has worked for me, so I’ll keep doing that. Why fix what isn’t broken?

    Those are my thoughts for now. Thanks for the responses, guys. I’ve just recently discovered the anti-game blogs like this and Alek’s place; much of the knowledge you guys take for granted is new to me. I don’t think that I’m the only newcomer to blogs like this seeking answers. In my case, I knew in my heart that game wasn’t quite right; for some reason, it just didn’t sit well with me on an INTUITIVE level. That said, I like to have more than intuition to guide me; I like to have sound reasons for doing what I do; I like to have sound reasons guide my decisions. I suspect that there are many others like me out there, so all I ask is that you, Alek, BP, and others keep that in mind. Thanks…

    MarkyMark

    • The only major change I’ve made in my diet is to simply EAT LESS. I still eat the same stuff I always have; I still like my pizza, burgers, and other stuff they say I shouldn’t eat. I look at it this way: no matter what I eat, it’s going to kill me-ha! Seriously though, I just eat less than I used to. For example, instead of having 4-5 slices of pizza, I’ll have 2-3 now; I just eat smaller portions of what I like. Over the last couple of years, I’ve lost 15-20 pounds. Also, I pretty much cut out having milk and cookies before going to bed; that helped too. Eating is like saving money: little changes can pay huge dividends over time. In any case, eating smaller portions has worked for me, so I’ll keep doing that. Why fix what isn’t broken?

      Same here.

      Right now I have a 4-pack, and I should have a six-pack in about 4 weeks. I eat exclusively fast-food (about 90% of my food is fast-food).

      I actually was at my fattest back when I was a health-nut. I actually lived 4-5 years where I didn’t have a single-gram of sugar, single gram of oil, single drop of anything except water… Not a gram of white-or-processed foods… And I kept getting fatter and fatter 😀

      The irony is when you eat the foods you love, it’s a lot easier to cut calories. Torturing yourself and banning yourself tasty stuff, just makes you crave it more, and then you end up over-eating on the “healthy stuff”.

      So yes, it’s actually easier to eat tiny-bits of pizza, than it is to restrict yourself to a bowl-of-tasteless-goo 😀

      When you ban yourself from eating the pizza you really crave, you end up having to eat 4-5-6 bowls of tasteless goo to repress that pizza craving 😀 And those 4-5-6 bowls of tasteless “health-food” actually have more calories than a small slice of pizza. Which is why people keep getting fatter on fad diets over time.

      p.s.

      As I am right now, I weigh 90 pounds less than I did back when I was a health-nut.

      • Thanks for proving my point, Alek! Yeah, I eat what I like, just smaller amounts of it. That, and cutting out the milk & cookies before bed time every night helped too. Again, money and food are two things where little changes can pay big dividends… 🙂

    • Many of the criticisms you raised WRT game are the same misgivings I’ve had; I just couldn’t ARTICULATE them as well as you have.

      No worries, Mark, for a long time I could not articulate my issues with game either but I was certain something was wrong with it. Problem is game has designed specific arguments/positions to DENY everything I just said, making final clarity even more difficult and articulation even more an act of rebellion. Game uses words in weird ways that makes you doubt that you SEE what you SEE. Game is a very sophisticated act of intellectual bullying and obfuscation.

      It took lots of thinking about it and reading what others had written about game to finally clarify my own thinking about it and fly in the face of game *dogma*, much of which is specifically designed to contradict what I said or confuse the issue and muddy the waters. Thats partly why I write today – to help other guys with dim misgivings achieve clarity for themselves and find the courage to accept that what they see about game is REAL. To give an example of someone refusing to be intellectually bullied and who is willing to admit the obvious.

      As for your points about the dishonesty of game, all excellent points.

  7. Guys,

    Something just occurred to me WRT game: like religious cults, they start off with some truth, then weave their deceptions around those truths. For example, PUAs/gamers talk about women’s hypergamy, which is a fact about women and their natures. Women are hypergamous, but all that means is that they seek out a man superior to them. It doesn’t mean that they’ll go for the alpha male no matter what; it doesn’t mean that they’ll automatically seek out the bigger, better deal; it doesn’t mean that they’ll go for the alpha of the group.

    MarkyMark

    • True, but it’s no question that the very real reason why women have higher STD rates than men is because they share infected partners – indicating that while they may build a life with a dependable man, they chose the most sexually attractive to spend their youth, fertility and beauty with.
      Getting the girl “in the end” … means choosing to accept being the last option.
      Hence why many men are saying “if the kitten didn’t want me, I don’t want the cat”. It seems women want men who are self-respecting … except when it comes to the idea of “accepting the woman for marriage, once the woman can no longer attract the bad boys” (all the while claiming “she was tricked” and “she would have dated you years ago, had she known you existed” – which is a lie she can never live up to, and downplays the fact that she chose to be with men she didn’t see a future with, until she could no longer attract them).

    • Yep, all cults do that. They have the 5% to suck you in with.

      Specifically about women and alphas and hypergamy, let me answer to something you said previously, as it ties into this point:

      o put it another way, a big problem I’ve always had with game is that, in effect, you’re starting off a relationship with lies. How can you not be doing this when you’re not being who you really are? Hell, Badger even ADMITTED that you have to ‘change your personality’! Is that not changing who you are? At the very least, isn’t that changing the way you present yourself to someone else? If you change the way you present yourself to someone else, are you not, in effect, telling lies to the other person? Are you not deceiving them? Isn’t deceit the heart of telling a lie in the first place? So, if you meet a good gal, what’s she going to do when she sees that you aren’t who or what she thinks you are? You’re going to lose her.

      Well, the trick they try to pull off is to misquote evo-psych and mis-apply it.

      Here are the facts
      -> Evo psych finds that women are attracted to charisma, social status, wealth and certain dominance traits in the long-run
      -> Social psychology finds that we like people more when they mirror, when they have status (etc).
      -> Some women do go hookup with a man after knowing him just 4-5 hours. Some women do bang guys in a club toilet
      -> You can temporarily fake traits like charisma, dominance, and acting like you’re of a higher-status than you are.

      Here’s what gamers conclude

      -> OHHHHHHH, weeeeeeel, since women base their attraction on walth and social popularity, and women bang guys just 4 hours after knowing them

      -> WELL you can just go in, and act like you’re high status and dominant, and you’ll be able to bang any woman in 4 hours after meeting her!!!!!!

      Here’s the part the illiterate bozos missed

      Evo psych actually SAYS that is impossible. Evo-psych SPECIFICALLY says that the shorter-term the mating, the more women look at traits that are impossible to fake.

      In other words, for a woman having a one-night-stand, about 99% of her attraction is based on the guy’s facial features and physique.

      Evo-psych specifically says that women are evolved against “game”. This is why every study finds that the more short-term or risky the proposition, the more women look at “shallow” traits like facial shape, height, etc. Things you can’t fake.

      On the other hand, the more a woman is evaluating a man for the long-term, the more she looks at traits like personality, social status, future earning power, popularity etc… etc… (looks become secondary for long-term mating)

      This is why women tend to postpone sex when they’re dating a long-term prospect. It is because nobody can fake things long enough 😀

      So yes, the whole faking thing in game is incredibly idiotic, because THE ONLY time-frame in which you can successfully fake a different personality is the only time when women don’t care about personality 😀

      Women only care about personality for long-term partners… and if you’re in that category, she will assess you and postpone sex until it’s certain you are who you are.

      See this:

      Password: hjernevask

      It’s the leading evo-psych author and a colleague basically ripping apart the basic core belief in game, that of “looks not mattering”. It’s funny, these fucking illiterate bozos keep advertising themselves as evo-psych-based, but they never even looked into evo-psych past a cursory skimming. Because evo-psych actually obliterates all the major beliefs in game.

  8. I will write a post on Susan Walsh tonight. Unfortunately, I don’t have the time right now to document all of her bullshit so I will only hit a few highlights. She is a woman who has done everything from call me “creepy” several times to most recently trying to blame the epidemic of female caused divorce on men by claiming that it’s all the result of men cheating on their wives. If you’re interested in the latter there was a big blowup about it on Dalrock’s blog.

    • BP,

      I shall be looking forward to it! Until then, I’m over at PMAFT’s blog reading all the posts that came up when I did a search on Susan Walsh. Other than her getting her feelings hurt @ The Spearhead, I can’t see what the POINT was for their kerfuffle. Why did those two go back and forth? I don’t get it, but that’s just me…

      MarkyMark

    • Yep, Susan Walsh is a fraud of the first order. She affects a kind of even-handed detachment, but when the chips are down she as heavily in the tank for Team Women as any RadFem.

      The Dalrock thing is a perfect example. Everyone knows that women are far more likely to divorce for frivlous reasons than men, and anyone with any knowledge of the law knows why, but ‘Honest Sue’ hits the roof and tries to bully the guy who mentions it. It’s a classic case of “‘Shut Up’ she explained”.

      Ditto, the PMAFT thing. Here’s a guy who refused to toe the party line over there that says that when a relationship goes wrong, it’s either the man’s fault or a ‘lack of communication’. Kablooey! He was gone just like that. Walsh claims to be open to male viewpoints, but only castrati with mummy issues need apply.

  9. Pingback: Women, Food, And Game’s Saving Grace | The Coastal Report

  10. Pingback: Conspiracy Theorists Will Turn On The MRM | The Black Pill

  11. Pingback: Nothing The So Called Manosphere Says Should Be Trusted | The Black Pill

  12. Hmmm… If you think “paleo” is a diet meant for losing weight, you missed the whole point. Paleo is not about weight loss per se, of course any diet can be used with calorie restriction to lose weight, or with calorie surplus to add weight, but paleo is not about that. Paleo is about becoming healthier long term by dropping poisonous foods such as gluten from your diet. You can still get fat with gluten free diet if you eat too much, that is not what it is about. It is sad to read these posts about things the writer has absolutely no clue about even on the most superficial level.

    • So calories are important? I have had paleo dieters come here and say that calories don’t matter. If you guys want to run a scam that works, try being consistent with each other.

    • Notice the format of this comment. Follows a typical cult-defending comment. Just as likely to have come from a feminist.

      Hmmm… If you think “paleo” is a diet meant for losing weight, you missed the whole point. Paleo is not about weight loss per se,

      -> Hmmm… If you think “feminist” is about x, you missed the whole point. Feminism is not about x per se, Feminism is about y long term by dropping z from society and the genders.

      -> Hmmm… If you think “game” is about getting laid, you missed the whole point. Game is not about sex per se, Game is about becoming a better person long term by dropping damaging mindsets and thoughts and beta behaviours which hurt you

    • It is sad to read these posts about things the writer has absolutely no clue about even on the most superficial level.

      How many times have you seen this EXACT sentence from a feminist when one criticizes feminism. It’s not that feminism is wrong, YOU JUST DON’T “UNDERSTAND IT”.

      Listen fucktard, we understand the Paleo cult perfectly well, and we’re well aware of the insignificant minutiae details it sells as life-changing realizations. Gluten is a minutiae detail. Obsessing about it is filler.

  13. I’m pretty sure paleo is about eating whole, non processed foods that’s are good for health. I’m not ignoring the nuts and people within the community who do not analyze enough data or draw false conclusions, every community has those, but I think it’s a jump to believe paleo is a scam or phony because people are eating basically regular foods. Fruit, meat, vegetables, and certain fats and oils seems pretty simple to me. I’m not saying one is unable to be fit or look good eating junk but it is not optimal nor healthy for someone who may or may not excersise, be young, etc. You may look good yes but that doesn’t guarentee that on the inside your body is in great condition or if it is, that the food you are eating is not slowly deteriating your internal health. On another note I think the people who say calories do not matter are wrong but they might be failing to convey the concept that it is not as simple as calories on calories out in terms of the condition of your body.

    And on the manosphere thing ionno a lot of the stories seem made up to me. Or exaggerated. Social skill improvement is one thing but some ideas of some people in the manosphere seem off to me and what I know from firsthand experience. I never knew the thing existed until recently. I hadn’t seen anything about deceit and outright lying though(again not saying it doesn’t exist within that community).

    • I’m pretty sure paleo is about eating whole, non processed foods that’s are good for health.

      Then it should be described as organic not paleo.

      but I think it’s a jump to believe paleo is a scam or phony because people are eating basically regular foods

      Paleo is supposed to be about the way cavemen ate. However, cavemen did not eat anything close to the paleo diet. That alone makes it a scam. Add all of the rest of the crap like conspiracy theory that goes along with it, and it’s nothing but a scam.

      I’m not saying one is unable to be fit or look good eating junk but it is not optimal nor healthy for someone who may or may not excersise, be young, etc. You may look good yes but that doesn’t guarentee that on the inside your body is in great condition or if it is, that the food you are eating is not slowly deteriating your internal health.

      My doctor says I’m in excellent health. I’m sure you will now go into a tizzy about how “doctors are evil” (except for Mercola).

      • I think i just accidentaly deleted my ckmment again. i dont think all doctors are evil except mercola.cept mercola. I dont like mercola and the way he pushes products to capitalize on people’s fear very slightly of Alex jones. Not sure what the conspiracy theory for pro would be other than they study that got shown in time mag that got national attention and spurred the low fat craze. I don’t think it was a conspiracy or mass overarching to enslave human kind and blah blah and monsatan(I was also looking at conspiracies earlier to see what people still believe these days and I’m pretty tired of it. But I could just be a shill trying to dissuade people from believe g conspiracies. I even Came across a few food related conspiracies and there was some website natural news defending snake oil salesman in the time before moder medicine lol. :/ ). I dislike the name just for the same that varied diets existed and people like cordain (who made mistakes in his conclusions, and who I do not and never followed fwiw) adopted it with the vaguish and sometimes straightforward assertio that Neolithic things are inerently bad, or that’s what a lot of people interpreted, which is not the case. There is a cult surrounding like most things with people who don’t understand science or nuances in creating a picture of the past from data and like conspiracies, once they here some facts about something they were told being not true they feel enlightened with aversion of a story they were told that fits aspects of their life and personal history. It’s also similar to people who adopt a religion I a state of weakness or uncertainty. However, were dealing with things we can actually gather data on from observation. I’d recommend Chris masterjohn, Stephan guyanet, and staffan lindeberg for more info who are in the general paleo field but its not a dogmatism attached and fro what I understan they grasp the verbal baggage that comes with it and I think that and primal is used as a general way for people to find them, and they have their own version of the word to fit their ideas about nutrition or deciding what humans should eat. So yea there’s a cult, ESP the no gmo(including no gmo potatoes lol..more for me…) because they thing Monsanto is inherit rly evil but I think not everything is done based of off trying to make people intentionally sick. It’s usually a combo of how can we make people eat more of our stuff(product) how can we produce more, and sometimes greed greed get factored in when contrary evidence or ideas get brought up. It’s normal for people to do that, as in understandable. When you invest al lot in something you’re not going to give it up because although you produce a high yielding crop there is little nutritional value or whatever things want to pick up. Fwiw I think gluten is also a fad, and a misnomer for a bunch of other health related issues people may have related to their diet an health and the consumption of wheat or wheat products in general that makes them think its gluten(as if it the only protein capable of causing probs lol) I can see the rest of my post but I’m going to keep writing in te hopes I’m not restating things. I think there’s a stigma from dogmatism adopted by people who describe themselves a paleo when it comes to low carb(as though its superior or necessary in every context..see jimmy Moore and his following..you’ll probably get what I’m saying when you see his blog or whatever it is). Stephan guyanet who I mentione before, partially for this reason, talks about soaking and fermentation of grains a bit as well as a few other topics. I know Chris masterjohn had a post on his blog about the combined factors of mineral depletion in soil, wheat getting an increased role in the average western diet esp now in the form of refined products and junk foods, decreased nutrient value in the higher yielding plant but a drastically lower decrease in the amou nt of phytic acid in the endosperm, and a few other factors I’m probably forgetting. I like reading about this stuff anyway so it was fun to hear people talk about it in a different context outside of nutritional articles on punned and other journals. Ill link the masterjohn post when I get the chance. The of research and all related to it is pretty interesting. He has punned articles as well if to want to go through them and lindeberg has some articles I science journals too. I think hea fro seen or a country in the region but as far as I remember they are in English. I anything give those three a look. A Deven balance to me. I think my diets pretty tasty and in satieted and def not fat. As far as mda goes I don’t think he has a science background(think he wa sa runne rbut idk)and for his readers it seems he does a decent enough job aggregating info to one site. In a Brie and for many, appealing format(not my type of site tho). A lot of people again in any nutritional camp( or those who say they are not of one) don’t have a lot of knowledge or experience with studying the related sciences so anything could be really said and people would believe it as long as it bypasses the ways they think and crkique information and if they don’t know howbto make logical conclusions for studies themselves (or even know how to find them or voter to look and see if they exist) then they’re putty an the hands of some and anything could be believed(like the fat you eat is the fat you wear coined by vegan…maybe mcdougall? Or carbs are fat by any inept person…) group think is a strange thing, something Id like to point out again if I haven’t already and in the context of conspiracy theories and certain ideological choices people feel they were wronged or things weren’t clicking and they think they found all the answers. How right they are is a matter of what they’re talking about and whatever the topic is at hand(something’s arent conspiracies as far as what were talking about by its just a comparison again). I rea a quote when I was looking on reddit in a forum about people who change they’re perception instead of their reality because they can’t or think they can’t, and this happens to a degree to everyone and the manifestations of that often result in dogmatism and paranoia(ESP conspiracy theorist). I don’t think the general culture appreciates or pushes /allows the time to deal and try to address nuance and everything’s kid of quick. I think I’ might be making excuses for people tho who generals don’t want todeal with nuance themselves. Life’s complicated. As far as the “marks apple whatever “I think the fatties u describe might have just started to make changes in their diet and are prob fat in the pics as a result.

        Anyway to sum up yea, there’s dogmatism an nuance needs to be adressed(wow v poor summation). If u want me to follow up shoot me an email if u get that info(not that in some expert or guru but its fun…sorta. ) I think the guys cmentioned above as resources deal with common misconceptions and tackle and analyze the info even form the “paleo side” it’s not really buddy buddy all the time and Im glad it isn’t(not to say terra ill will involved just that people aren’t avoiding criticism because they’re afraid to lose followers, rustle feathers, and most inportantly not because they lack they capability to do so. A lot of people who are referred to for sources(again by a variety of people many who do nt have a clue a to how they would figure out how these things works or how to even deduce them an how scientists would run experiments, do not have a science background or deal with the nuance and this when holes are picked people think the whole thing falls down not so. It’s pretty much about optimal eating and what optimal means of course would vary but it’s easy to see once you talk to the peoe or read what they write. I think there’s a mom probably…paleo mom or some name..showed her progress and personal story. It resonates with a lot of people because of similar situations. (She has a science background but itching guarantees success in health and it wasn’t so much relate dot nutrition if I recall correctly. It might’ve been in microbiology relate d to Maine life. Even tho ou get basic info some people don’t connect the dots being further or more specific info. It’s interesting to see.

        You can definitely be ripped and eat unhealthy foods(“tho for how long is another discussion) ie leangains and its success(here see berkhan a site and progress of his clients because the other guy, according g to berkhan a client and the guy himself, Andy I think this other guys name is, doesn’t have great progress pics and gets some principles wrong as far as tinkering to get people optimal success goes(there’s also a leangains reddit but I haven’t visited there much. A few of the top posts of all time for the forum prob show good progress(one is on an Indian guy I think). Again going back to nuance some people just get a lot of information or analysis from a limited perspective or national an they thin they have the whole picture thus making them deal satisfied(in certain sects of game theory they also feel wronged or weak but strengthened by this theory as vi mentioned with other conspiracy theories(this is no conspiracy unless they start talking about collapse of the world bcus of guys or whatever. Idk I don’t keep up with it) I will say that u had some misconceptions about both paleo and game(basic game is basic social interaction and attraction and if you’re not a pushover and can read people ,,plus enhance your self to feel comfy in your own skin while pushing yourself obvi to learn more about things…you’re pretty much done. Then u just have to well approach people your interested in and in general interact. Trial and error) the people who I think get it right, are those that realize its all much easier hen you’re not socially inept, think, and have goals because females aren’t going to be your main concern in life(or any people validating you they some means perhaps). Sex is a normal thing so socially and in game I gues it’s expected you can communicate your interest in others and also create or provide sexual and nonsexual attraction(usually not in a female focused way like oh I have to dress this exact way or say these exact lines and approach hella girls all the time even if I don’t like them). Once again I think the variations of combinations of helplessness, self pity and whatever else probably creates people’s belief in things, in this case game(and prob why so many people buy into game related theory extrapolate it from ideas of any rand and others like her). Here atlas does not shrug but I shrug(in an unrelated way). Hope that helps clear up a bit of what I was saying.

        • This is probably ridden with typos so apologies if it make it hard to read. In all of that I can’t believe I forgot to say that I think the good I eat is pretty tasty and I don’t think I’ve given up much :). Food reward is an interesting topic of discussion and study and as we see with certain products ESP junk and fast food, ingredients are added and macronutrients are proportionate to make the consumer want more, ESP if there are little nutrients to be gained and satiety remains low, one becomes more likely to eat more. This is such an interesting field of study and I wonder how much it will expand in the near future.

  14. Tasteless Joke:

    Did you hear about the man-0-sphere tough guy who went on a date with the (sl)easy, sexually empowered, man hating 3rd wave feminist who wrote for feministe…

    she said, “you can do me in da pooper if ya lick the kitty you misogynistic dudebroe.”

    he said, “um, I have to ask Matt Forney if pussy’s paleo.”

    she said, “well, Jack Donovan wasn’t afraid of my 11 inch strap on, I just had to wear a mustache and lumber jack outfit.”

    he said, “wait, are you sure it wasn’t Hugo Schwyzer?”

    she said, “hehe, I really can’t tell which one is an alter-righty or a male feminist these days, all they do is complain that their mangina hurts almost as much as their privilege. Now bend over b*tch.”

    afterwords, when he was in a puddle of his own tears, she kicked him in the face and said, “I wanna see you at slutwalk tomorrow, remember, only men can stop rape.”

  15. Pingback: What Is With All Of The Fat Shaming In The Manosphere? | The Black Pill

  16. Not demeaning mark or Jimmy’s work either. Both were illustrative analogies that I hope make sense.

  17. Pingback: The Manuresphere Is Incapable Of Accomplishing Anything | The Black Pill

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