29 comments on “AVFM Removes Its Last Link To The Man-0-sphere

  1. Sadly, I think this is a classic example of too little, too late. I’m not saying that Elam can never recover from his refusal to take a clear and open stance against the manosphere early on. But I do think it’s going to become a huge obstacle to overcome from here on out. It’s the old adage an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It’s going to be harder to distance himself from the manosphere right now than it would have been earlier.

    First and foremost, I’m not sure if appearing on a special explicitly titled “Manosphere” is even a good idea. For example, google the word “Manosphere” and look at the links that pop up. You can get 3 or pages deep in the results and only see Roissyite sites and manboobz.com. If someone sees the special, thinks the Elam and other MRAs are the same as the manosphere, then choose to google manosphere and encounter dozens of roissyite sites, they will associate that with Elam.

    I’m very curious as to how thorough the research is going to be. Will they stop at Paul Elam’s level, or will they go into the true dregs of the C-list roissyites, meaning the scientific racists, the white nationalists, the conspiracy theorist antisemites, the gucci little piggys? If they do go that deep in the research, and manage to associate it with legitimate MRAs that would be terrible, especially given the timing. After all, this is a week where we just had Return of Kings making Fat Shaming Week all over twitter and getting press for it, and Matt Forney had a huge success in getting attention with his recent trollish artcle about female self-esteem. If any of those recent trolling attempts gets covered and presented as Elam’s peers on 20/20, the damage to legitimate MRAs will be significant.

  2. As far as I’m concerned, the American media has always willfully and deliberately linked MRAs with everything evil about the world and always will, and as we know the American media fully controls and operates the heartless hearts and minds of the American people in the dystopia known as America. When I have enough money saved, I’m leaving America. America is hopeless, and so are “the People”. I’ll find a deserted island out on the Pacific somewhere; I’m sick of the human race, I’m sick of life….

  3. I think I’ve been too negative. Despite how slow he was to get around to it, I say better late than never, and good for him for getting smart, good people like Alek and Aaron Sleazy to discuss dating. And to his credit, he did eventually write a post explicitly denouncing the manosphere in 2012.

    And maybe his agreeing to appear on ABC is an overall good thing. At first I thought it was a bad idea because it’s a given he wouldn’t get a fair shake, but now I think maybe that’s the wrong way to look at it. Anyone who buys into the bs bias of the article (pro-Sarkeesian, anti-Elam) was a lost cause anyway. So it isn’t like the MRM is losing potential allies from ABC’s bias. But in the meantime the controversy might put the MRM on the radar of sympathetic people who can think for themselves.

    • It’s a calculated risk, but in the end 20/20 is going to lie about Paul Elam & AVFM whether he goes on 20/20 or not. Paul Elam can’t stop 20/20 or anyone else from accusing him of being “the mayor of the manosphere”. (Just look at how many people accuse me of being part of the man-0-sphere.) However, he did do the one thing he could do which is clean up any remaining links to the manosphere so that he’s not giving his enemies evidence.

  4. Bp, you’re a dumas- you really are. You should have consulted me before writing this article to get the inside story. Like you have NO IDEA what happens behind the scenes in AVfM and every assumption you so arrogantly make is false. Every single one.

    Paul actually has NO control over the links, and he doesn’t even know how to set them, like literally he has no idea how that setting in the software works. So you don’t know shit about the full story, you don’t know why those links were there until now or in the first place. Stop fucking making those assumptions and fucking publically claiming that paul linked to manosphere on purpose when you don’t fucking know shit.

    Please don’t embarass yourself further by posting more or replying to this comment. If you guys want, you can all email me privately and I can explain, I ask that you remove this blog post. I can explain in email.

    Its also factually inaccurate
    “I criticized AVFM for linking to Inmalafide and Hawaiian Fat Blob, and that Paul Elam strongly disagreed with me about it.”

    That’s not true. He didn’t disagree with you on that, he didn’t even notice that part of your critique, he responded to your other critiques. He didn’t say shit about links.

      • I’ve literally been sleeping 4 hour days due to cramming and putting out fires in several places, both avfm backend and personal businesses, and you are more concerned with stroking your ego than helping MRM.

        • Its too late anyway, this post is cached for eternity.

          i asked you nicely, you left a post claiming that MRA purposefully associated to manosphere WHILE CLAIMING not linking the two is the most important thing on the planet.

          I’ll explain when I get the time, but the general truth is Paul has NEVER liked manospherian sites, the guy is literally being commanded by his doctor to slow down to not kill himself from overwoking (he’s doing the work of 20 people), and you don’t fucking know shit.

          We get 50 people criticizing shit not being done perfectly at avfm for everyone one person actually VOLUNTEERING to help do it right. The truth is MOST (if not all) fuckups on avfm are due to OVERWHELM where its not clear who’s in charge of doing what with everyone doing allnighters just to keep up.

          I’m doing the work of 10 people, doing jobs i’m not qualified to do BECAUSE NOBODY APPLIES TO DO THEM. I get fucking idiots criticizing (for example) how I wrote a line of code, telling me how it should have been done, BUT THEY’RE NOT volunteering to do it (and I’m not even a programmer, I do it coz everyone would rather blog or be a smartass in blog posts and comments rather than do actual work). Everyone would rather be a smartass about how AVfM Should do its job, while they’re not the ones fucking losing sleep and years off their life doing the actual work.

        • I’ll explain when I get the time

          I will be waiting.

          We get 50 people criticizing shit not being done perfectly at avfm for everyone one person actually VOLUNTEERING to help do it right.

          Given the reaction to anyone who notices a problem, I’m not surprised at the lack of volunteers.

        • Btw, this “shoot from the hips” management style is the reason AVfM has grown so fucking fast. A lot of the people who were part of it are out of AVfM (kicked out by paul).

          You can be a smartass and talk about how a site should be “ideally” run, but you’re not the one commanding a million-visits-a-month website.

          Paul literally let hundreds of people come and go into the site with minimal vetting. You can be a smartass and claim he did a mistake by not grilling everyone for months on end to satisfy your perfectionistic streak, but if he did that, he’d still have a 10k blog, not a million-people-blog. He literally vetted people in real time, as they worked on the site and grew it.

          I’m sorry to dissapoint your egos, but he honestly has no idea who you are. He did not change because he “wised up” by reading your blogs and rants. He literally solves issues when they reach a tipping point due to all the overwhelm. I assure you I know, I was there when he finally wrote an article telling PUAs to fuck-off and I was there to show him to remove links off the site.

          Paul literally let hundreds of people help out in growing the site, most of whom did a lot of the work which Paul has no idea how it is even done or managed. There has never been a formal organization structure where its known exactly who’s in charge of what. There’s always been an endless stream of overwhelm where if shitty comments/crap was done by some people in AVfM, its because there was no formal policy or organization (COZ THE PEOPLE DOING IT ARE DOING IT FOR FREE and often as second full-time job)

          We’re now going through that process of cleaning up the website and restructuring it from the inside out. All you ahole who assume Paul controls every pixel and letter on the site and is responsible for everything don’t know that superhumans don’t exist.

        • You can be a smartass and talk about how a site should be “ideally” run

          There’s a difference between talking about the ideal running of a website, and noticing an discrepancy between a stated position (being anti-man-0-sphere in this case) and an aspect of that website (such as its links). What we are talking about is the latter.

          You may think I’m being a smartass, but imagine what feminists could do. One of the things they’re trying to do is smear the MRM and the man-0-sphere together. Leaving evidence around that feminists can use to do that is a bad idea.

          We’re now going through that process of cleaning up the website and restructuring it from the inside out. All you ahole who assume Paul controls every pixel and letter on the site and is responsible for everything don’t know that superhumans don’t exist.

          Then answer this question. Who was responsible for adding the links to Hawaiian fat blob and inmalafide. Paul Elam may legitimately not be responsible, but SOMEONE was.

        • Given the reaction to anyone who notices a problem, I’m not surprised at the lack of volunteers.

          BULL FUCKING SHIT! BULLSHIT

          People aren’t volunteering because ITS EASIER TO BE A BLOG SMARTASS THAN DO ACTUAL WORK.

          Its also fucking bullshit that people get a bad reaction for noticing a problem. PEOPLE ONLY get a bad reaction if they:

          a) Notice a problem
          b) Write about the notice in a smug superrior way in a “I am so much smarter than you idiots, look I noticed these 55 problems, hahaha you stooopid”

          Everyone can see how you wrote the posts, they were NOT in good faith. They were in the format of “Elam sooooo stooopid trololoolol loook he has xyz on the site” – a lot of stuff was done in way of COMPROMISING to build the site as fast as possible.

          I KNOW your excuse is bullshit – COZ

          1) We always respond politely to a critique first, and suggest people volunteer politely, the critic then flips out and gives 50 excuses for why they don’t have the time to volunteer, even though they took 2 hours to criticize

          A fucker will fucking take 2 hours to criticize a job that takes 2 hours to do, but he won’t volunteer to do it “for lack of time”.

          2) Whenever we run a check on the super-long 10-page critiques from smartasses on the comments THEY ARE ALWAYS people who haven’t donated a SINGLE CENT and have never donated a SINGLE minute of work and have never attended a SINGLE event or done SINGLE minute of ACTIVISM in their lives

          The highest paying donors – the most giving activists/organizers etc, when they give critiques the critiques tend to be “FYI I noticed that xyz isn’t correct – lacking -” or “I noticed this discrepancy here, are you guys working on that?” ITS ALWAYS in good faith.

          YOU THINK THATS A COINCIDENCE? Why is the person doing ACTUAL activism has critiques in the good faith format? And the guy who hasn’t done A SINGLE MINUTE OF activism work has critiques in bad faith? I have seen that over 100 cases. ITS ALWAYS TRUE.

          Anytime the critique is made with an ASSUMPTION of stupidity/malice on the part of AVfM its NOT in good faith and don’t you pretend you had any good faith. All of your critiques were in bad faith. The good faith guys ASSUME good intentions and first email us saying “hey I noticed xyz, would you like me to help with that”

          If you see a problem on AVfM, ASSUME that 99% of the time its because of lack of resources, overwhelm and putting out fires and disorganization.

          AS YOU ARE SITTING IN YOUR COMFORTABLE CHAIR studying fucking links – Paul is handling SERIOUS death threats, putting out fires, sleeping 4 hours a day, and running from one physical location to another.

          You may think I’m being a smartass, but imagine what feminists could do. One of the things they’re trying to do is smear the MRM and the man-0-sphere together. Leaving evidence around that feminists can use to do that is a bad idea.

          SO WHY THE FUCK DID I ASK YOU TO REMOVE THIS POST DUMBASS – IF YOU ACTUALLY CARED YOU WOULD. YOU PROVED YOU’RE NOT ACTING IN GOOD FAITH by keeping this post linking the two. You’re just ego stroking, you don’t give a fuck about men’s movement results.

          I will be waiting.

          I explained it in disjointed ways smartass – the chaos, the discrepancies and that I’m doing all the work to help set up the new organized structure, policies etc, read the comments I posted, you’ll get it. By 3.0 we should have a well lubed, structured, hierarhical site with exact policies on who does what where. You’re not owed a detailed explanation on exactly what broke where in the history of avfm since you already proved you’re not acting in good faith.

          You’re tech savvy. Help me get more sleep by helping me with some of the code/technical stuff on AVfM (I’m literally an ignoramus who spends 20 hours doing something another could do in 1 hour if they are qualified).

          If you don’t, I’m not interested in further conversation. I’ve given up socializing, most sex, half my hobbies and half my sleep to restructure AVfM over the coming months, I am not interested in smartasses demanding they be told why we don’t do things well enough, fast enough, free enough.

        • People aren’t volunteering because ITS EASIER TO BE A BLOG SMARTASS THAN DO ACTUAL WORK.

          That’s true in a lot of cases, but nobody knows there’s a problem. This is the first time that I have known that there is actual problem with managing the AVFM website. The same thing happened with criticism of the lack of updates at register-her.com. It took over a year before anyone provided an explanation. Had there been a call for volunteers or even just a explanation when this problem was first noticed by someone outside of AVFM, either this wouldn’t have been a problem or there would have been a lot less snarky criticism.

          Everyone can see how you wrote the posts, they were NOT in good faith.

          Given that I have found to the man-0-sphere to be a bunch of dishonest freaks running scams, I treat anything, even just tangential things, involving the so called man-0-sphere in bad faith. If we were talking about anything else, you would have a point.

          SO WHY THE FUCK DID I ASK YOU TO REMOVE THIS POST DUMBASS – IF YOU ACTUALLY CARED YOU WOULD. YOU PROVED YOU’RE NOT ACTING IN GOOD FAITH by keeping this post linking the two.

          You promised an explanation which you haven’t provided.

          You’re not owed a detailed explanation on exactly what broke where in the history of avfm since you already proved you’re not acting in good faith.

          Just answer this for me (if you need to send me an email to answer this then answer that way), was there a specific person who caused this problem or was it the result of confusion at AVFM? If it’s the latter how did AVFM end up linking to any man-0-sphere websites given that as you said “Paul Elam never liked manospherian sites”?

          You’re tech savvy. Help me get more sleep by helping me with some of the code/technical stuff on AVfM (I’m literally an ignoramus who spends 20 hours doing something another could do in 1 hour if they are qualified).

          Web stuff isn’t my main area of expertise, but all right. I assume that any help I can give you will be indirect since I’m probably persona non grata at AVFM now and won’t be allowed to work on AVFM directly. Send me an email explaining what you need help with.

  5. “It’s just funny that despite the strong opposition I got from Paul Elam, AVFM ended up doing eventually what I knew to be the right course of action.”
    Exactly as with the Wolly Bubblebee (Kirsten Hansen) saga. Paul was wrong, everyone else was right, and Paul eventually came around.
    It one of the main strengths of AVfM as a site, that Paul can correct himself, make an apology, and move on. Eyes on the prize – that prize being a reversal of the misandric laws that we live under. Well done.

  6. unfortunately, AVFM has been fostering a nest of quislings waiting to take advantage of them, just as a woman would sucker in a man for marriage. that’s all these cunts want out of the so called MHRM. getting that gravy train off it’s side and back onto the tracks is going to involve a lot of hard work, and we know who they expect to do that hard work.

  7. Roissy’s intellectual dishonest keeps astounding me. Just when I think I’ve seen it all, he still manages to surprise. He recently covered the 20/20 manosphere brouhaha. Look what he says early in his post:

    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/10/18/abc-news-2020-segment-on-the-manosphere/

    CH may not rightly be considered part of the manosphere (our hearts will go on), but this news should interest the CH readership, which crosses over with sites commonly recognized as manospherian. Actually, the news should interest all sorts of non-manosphere readers as well, such as those from the peripheral HBD, PUA, dissident and rascally right, and neoreactionary spheres. Thus, I pass it along.

    So now he’s pretending that his blog isn’t part of the manosphere? Not only is he a manosphere blog, he’s THE manosphere blog! Also, he’s claiming that HBD, PUA, racists, and the alt-right are not part of the manosphere either?

    So these guys create a fucking cesspool called the manosphere, full of racists, pussybegging, conspiracy theorists, and other kooks, then they get themselves associated with MRAs, then end up getting the MRAs also labeled as being part of the manosphere, and after proceeding to ruin the name of their own movement, now try to distance themselves from it and pawn it off onto the Men’s Rights Movement?

    I’m guessing one of two things happened:

    1: Roissy wasn’t contacted for the manosphere piece, or wasn’t included, and because he wants to save face he’s pretending that he was never a part of the manosphere anyway.

    2: He realizes what a shitty reputation the manosphere has and how the term has become a laughinstock that no one takes seriously, so he’s distancing himself from it for that reason and is helping the media pin that toxic label onto the MRM.

    Check the comments. His own readers don’t even get his claim of not being part of the manosphere. This guy is so dishonest he would even try to distance himself from the term Roissysphere if it ever got inconvenient to him.

    • The manoshpere now has a large presence of cultural marxists, racial egalitarians, conspiracy theorists(the bad kind), left-libertarians, “Christian gamers,”(the bad kind) and warmongerers, as well as those who simply hate women.(And I don’t mean the SPLC definition of “hate,” I mean the people who celebrate wife-beaters as American heroes)

      A lot of the good Manoshpherians have left the movement. Roosh has allowed a lot of trash and cultural marxism to be published under his site, ROK. He also supports the liberal position on HBD:

      http://www.returnofkings.com/3316/introducing-the-muscle-bio-diversity-mbd-movement

      CH is much more a part of the Dark Enlightenment(Steve Sailer types) than he is part of the Manoshpere.

    • It’s almost enough to make you believe in the conspiracy theory that the man-o-sphere all along was a feminist creation designed to distract/discredit the MRM.

      Much of what they do there amounts to constructing and publicizing the new Feminine Mystique v2.0.

  8. Suppose all the causes of the MRA movement were achieved tomorrow. Marriage discrimination ended, affirmative action ended, false accusation of rape was a real crime, ect. Would you consider your work to be done? No, because that isn’t ultimately what you are about. After all, what danger does marriage discrimination prove to you? Aren’t you a virgin? Like Roosh, you support the goals of Men’s Right’s, however, your main complaints, the issues that make you get out of bed every day and write this blog, are cultural, not political. The difference is that Roosh is wiling to admit it.

    • Suppose all the causes of the MRA movement were achieved tomorrow. Marriage discrimination ended, affirmative action ended, false accusation of rape was a real crime, ect. Would you consider your work to be done?

      Yes, because women would have no power to do anything to me.

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