134 comments on “The False Accusation Bandwagon Effect

  1. We were recently talking about this in my Shadowrun group, and I was pleasantly surprised to find that everyone at the table was of this same mind. Now, I’m the only vagina-owner so I don’t know what their wives would have thought…but given that one of my tablemates is overtly chivalrous and another 2 still believe in the wage gap, I am counting this as a Win.

    I personally don’t believe any of it, same as I didn’t believe the accusations against Michael Jackson. There’s a lot of greedy, conniving people in this world, men and women alike. Sadly, dollar signs are more important to some than honesty and morality.

    • Michael Jackson is definitely a combination of stupid and wealth. That was his biggest problem. More and more men have figured out that it’s dangerous to be around kids that aren’t theirs and best to avoid them, but Michael Jackson wasn’t one of those men.

      • I honestly felt bad for the guy. He eventually had kids of his own, but being famous from such a young age meant he had literally no “childhood”. Part of his psyche was still stuck trying to live it, and people were too stupid/greedy to understand that.

  2. The risks to celebrities are tremendous…. including the Catholic Church as an well-known and wealthy organization that had both true and false accusations to endure (still to this day). As an aside, I knew for years a priest that was accused of 50-year old allegations by the family of the dead victims!

    I wonder what is the level of risk for a financially successful person who is not well known? There are far more wealthy people that are not celebrities and there are far more broke celebrities than there are wealthy celebrities.

    In the case of a wealthy anonymous man, the first false accusation would not reach the newspapers but could still be a hefty payday. Maybe there would not be a band wagon. Perhaps the risk is always there for the first accusation, nevertheless. That is bad enough and reason not to sleep around when you are younger.

    I propose a hypothesis: women will jump on copycat accusations and victim trains but are too self-absorbed to think critically and directly manipulate new targets… if they were to do so men would avoid them completely because they could see the threat more directly.

    • I wonder what is the level of risk for a financially successful person who is not well known?

      Overall, it’s probably less depending on how visible the man’s wealth is. Part of the problem with rich celebrities is that everyone knows they’re rich. The other part of the problem is that their wealth was sudden so they don’t know how be smart about their wealth. A few years ago, I read about how the NBA was supposedly giving rookie players classes on the subject that since now they have money and are public figures they have to watch out for people, especially women, trying to con them.

      OTOH, your average financially successful man (who didn’t inherit their wealth) has a different life trajectory than that so they are more likely to not expose themselves like that. Take me, for instance. Sure, I own things like a luxury car and a really nice condo, but it doesn’t communicate the real level of my wealth. Plus, I avoid being in situations as much as possible where women can falsely accuse me of anything. It’s hard for a woman to falsely accuse me of rape if I have never been within several miles of her. It’s not an ironclad guarantee that I will never have a problem like Cosby’s, but it makes it less likely.

      In the end, I think the biggest thing that a financially successful man can do to protect himself is never get married. If he’s not well known, the biggest threat will be from his wife who has massive incentive to divorce him and steal half or more of his assets.

      • “In the end, I think the biggest thing that a financially successful man can do to protect himself is never get married.”

        The problem is that many states also have common-law marriages, and even cohabitation laws (biggest load of BS ever, imo). Stupidity like this is why I refuse to live with my lover. I’d never do anything to cause him harm of any type, but why invite the Government into your bedroom regardless?

        Hell, I have more disposable income than he does and they would still likely make *him* pay! Such laws create inequality where none need exist…I’ll not have it.

        You are a wise man, BP.

      • Part of the Problem with celebrities is that most people THINK they are rich, othewise they wouldn’t have bothered to take any lenghts to lie and try to suck this man’s blood dry, like they did with other fluids in the past.

  3. “Disturbing racial aspect”

    To you it’s a “disturbing racial aspect, that Cosby is Black and all these women are White. Because you believe that Blacks are morally superior to Whites, it would disturb you to believe that a Black man is the perpetrator and Whites are the victims. This just goes to prove how you are anti-White. I’m not saying the accusations are true, I’d say it’s a 95% probability they are false. But you are the type who claims that “race doesn’t matter, people shouldn’t care about race,” ect, but it’s clear you don’t believe that.

    • I believe that black men (or men of any other race) are morally superior to white women (or women of any other race). Just because I think that race doesn’t matter does not mean that other people, especially women, agree with me.

      • “Race” doesn’t matter. We are all a part of the human race, with minor differences due to environmental conditions. We can all breed together and have healthy, intelligent, reproductively capable offspring since we are all one species. Most, if not all, differences in crime rates (which WN’s love to point out) can be traced back to issues of less educational opportunities and overt classism.

        If “race” matters to you, I’d advise taking a long look at why.

        • That’s a fantasy. Look within any school and the Blacks will misbehave more. I went to the same school as a bunch of Blacks and they were the ones who caused most of the trouble.

        • Uh huh. And were these troubled teens the only black people in your entire school? Or are you forgetting to mention the black Honor Roll students, the black teachers, the black custodians, the black teaching assistants, or the regular/average black kids who didn’t get in trouble? Because my middle and high schools had roughly a 50% white, 30% black, 20% Asian/Native American/Other population and it was mostly the white kids who got into the most trouble.

        • And I’ll bet you also live in the community that’s only 50% White, where Whites commit the majority of the crime.

          Blacks were about a third of the school I was in, and only a few would have had a chance of making the honor roll, if we had had one. We didn’t, thanks to a Jewish superintendent who made a bunch of “reforms” to the school system. Their behavior fit with recorded IQ differences, 85 for Blacks and 100 for Whites. In the advanced classes almost all the kids were White.

        • Um, no…At that I lived in a community that had about 80% upper middle/6-figure income white families, and the rest were Indian and black families of the same general class. Lots of engineers, architects, nurses, dentists, programmers, doctors, lawyers, etc. In this aspect of life, I was lucky.

          Even if your assertion of IQ variance were true for a significant portion of like populations, which I suspect it is not, the numbers you cite are well within typical ranges. The median for IQ tests is 100, and a standard deviation is 15 points. At any given time, approximately 90-95% of the US population tests within 2 deviations (70-130). My IQ is 132…not that it matters, because IQ doesn’t necessarily make you a better person, it just means you have a higher learning potential. A lot of this can, and typically is, attributed to opportunities one receives during developmental years, everything from adequate nutrition to a safe home life to parental encouragement of one’s abilities. Even if a child is bright and would normally test with a high IQ, a poor environment can be detrimental to their continued progression.

          Oh, wait…it’s almost like that’s what I just frickin said about classism. Would you look at that! Kids in lower class neighborhoods generally do poorly on standardized tests when compared to their peers from middle to upper class ones. Wow, who would have imagined…

      • If it was a Black woman accusing a White man or an Asian woman accusing a White man, would you accuse the woman of racism? No you wouldn’t, you are just like a liberal, throwing around the word “racist” for no other reason than the fact that the person is White. “Anti racist” really just means anti-White.

        • By that logic Conservative would mean necessarily “Racist” or “Pro White”. I know far too many examples where Conservative and racism don’t go hand in hand, I would advise you to leave your backwater State and see how non endogamic people roll for a couple months.

        • Just because someone calls himself conservative doesn’t make him conservative. Neocons, like those at the National Review site cannot be described as conservative, they are enemies of tradition, of nation, and of race.

        • Soooo Lincoln was a Neocon? Same with Malcom X?

          I myself don’t consider libertarians conservatives, because tradition requires still strong government dictating citizens what to do, and conservatives add to that their Dominionist variety of pseudo theocracy, which makes all Libertarians, who actually know about the movement they spouse, cringe.

          That doesn’t mean I’m right, a person is a label if they identify with said label, and there are a lot of colors on the political expectrum. From Jimmy Crow to Obama. From Ron Paul to Sarah Palin.

        • Yes, Lincoln somehow managed to be a Neocon a century before anyone could be a Neocon. White vagina worshipping nationalists ignore 99% of conservative political positions including defending capitalism and call that “conservatism”. That’s the “logic” white vagina worshipping nationalists use.

        • Lincoln wasn’t a neocon, but he was a tyrant, a president who violated the constitution in ways that make Obongo seem like Ron Paul. Of course, the constitution is secondary to political correctness for most “non-racist” “conservatives” like the people here.

        • And Better than Obama?

          Obama widened the rights of the State to take innocent citizens and intern them as terrorists without trial. Citizens who have done NOTHING, have killed NOBODY, and at worst had downloaded some stuff from the internet. Are you really comparing this to Lincoln using force of arms to defend it’s country against the Southern aggression after the South assaulted Fort Sumter?

          Seriously how fucking retarded could someone be before forgetting how to breathe?

        • What part of “innocent citizens” your retardation doesn’t get? The Southern Soldiers were NOT US Citizens and were openly hostile to the US Government, initiating armed action against US forces.

          You are comparing guys declaring independence and killing US armed forces on their fortifications with people writting blgs? Seriously how the fuck can you remember how to breathe?

        • Or if you are actually speaking about the Maryland case, we are talking about Government officials sabotaging the US military in a war on US soil. They were traitors and in fact it was one of the few instances of Lincoln doing so. On the other hand Jefferson Davies not only suspended the Habeas Corpus indefinetely, he also set the South on a constant Martial Law. Yay for your Democrat liberator.

    • Aye aye the Community is anti-white despite most posters being white, would you go away to banging your cousin now?

      Evil Jews change the rules so Nigroes an score better results tthan übermnschen :’-(. Seriously, the same fucking “glass ceiling excuses” the minorities they hate somuch use…

      I come from a mostly white Community which later received some blacks and hispanics shortly before I left. Crime actually went down. Of course didn’t have to do with race as much as the state taking a harsher approach to law enforcement, but hey, we cannot try to justify people’s action’s outcomes with said people’s actions, let’s use religion and skin color.

  4. Cosby has the money to hire lawyers in every State where these women reside, and go after them directly with libel accusations. He has the social clout to give long TV/internet/magazine interviews where he discusses false rape, calls the women racists for effect, and have Mike Tyson, and Tupac Shakur’s mother, sitting alongside him while he does it, agreeing with him. He could change the national debate on the issue if he fights back hard.

    And if he did it, a bunch of other men like him would be able to speak up, using celebrity status and anti-racism as cover to finally bring this issue to the mainstream.

    I hope he fights like hell. If he drags this through the papers for years, and gets even a couple women to break down and confess in public what they’re doing, it could be the moment where this whole process begins to reverse itself.

    • That is a truly excellent idea, higharka. Let’s hope Mr. Cosby’s lawyers think the same way, and don’t just recommend he roll over and pay them to go away.

    • Maybe, it depends on how the courts are rigged on said States. Also what role does envy play in the jury’s decission, along with how much of a “women are always right” mentality they have.

      It ain’t a black and white issue ( pun intended ), but I wager that he could pull it off in at least a couple of States. May be too time consumming though.

      • Family courts are rigged in every State in the sense you’re probably referring to, but Cosby has the advantage of being African American and wealthy, which gives him clout in the American media and the American courtroom, respectively.

        The reason he has a chance is because of that blackness, which makes him a “victim” in the sense that the system respects. The same PC-ish ideology that allows unsubstantiated crimes against women gives Cosby more power in the media.

        …all of which would be worthless if he didn’t have the money, too. With the money, he can buy the right law firms in the necessary states–the people who are old buddies with the judges and the judges’ families and investment firms. If he makes the right donation to UC Berkeley, he could get a bunch of respected MDs and PhDs to analyze his case and testify that the women were clearly exhibiting [insert name of new disease] by making up their stories.

        If Cosby poured enough cash into the old-boy network, he could use the system’s own corruption against itself. (Irony is, he’d end up richer at the end of it all, anyway, with some new TV series production deals and a criminology department building named after him somewhere).

        • Sure I understood what you meant, but I just want to remind you what happened with Kobe Bryant, he had to settle giving the bitch only the Gods know how much money, shaming himself in public too, so no being African American doesn’t protect you from white bitches.

          Another case were melanine levels didn’t help was with Tiger Woods, and in every court adultery is a lesser crime than rape…

          This is why we say that race doesn’t hold as much sway in most of America as most people claim. Of course it depends on the court’s sensibilities, and the inner state culture, a court in, let’s say, Virginia or Florida would probably condemn the guy straight away because, well, they really don’t need many excuses to want to hang guys of color, others like California or NY would fuck him up for his gender, while Washington and so on playing the race card may be helpful.

  5. Its been almost one year since I’ve gone my own way, renounced women and went Buddhist and vegan. Its been the best year of my life.

    Happy Thanksvegan Everyone!!!!

    The Red Pill on Food on and Dead (literally) Traditions:

    Stuffing the anal cavity of a tortored, dead bird is considered a symbol of abundance and gratitude. And they say vegans are the crazy ones!

  6. Bill Cosby told black fathers to start taking care of their kids and stop glorifying gangster culture. This is abhorrent to modern day liberal progressives because they see any decency and responsibility as crimes and blacks as a protected, sacred class that should never be critized.

    • Sounds like Cosby is a mangina then.

      How can black fathers take care if their kids, when black women are the ones blocking them? This is classic hyper agency being applied to men.

      Men have no say over the family unit, the woman can discard the man at any time. Whatever happens to the family unit is on the woman, because she has complete control. She is still not held responsible by society though.

      More blacks end up as thugs, because more black are raised by abusive violent single mothers.

      • Ironic how manginas end up being victims of the female dominated culture.

        Also women do stay with abusive rapists, as lot of women love rapists, it is only when they don’t get want they want out of the relationship they turn on the man.

        We have no way of knowing.

        If these women where raped they are scum bags for letting a rapist get away with it. (How selfish is it of them to a rapist victimize other women.)

        If these women are lying they are scumbags for trying to destroy cosby.

        • I would go even further and say that most women absolutely love abusive rapists, though probably not as much as scumbag seducers. I know women who gave birth to rapist children and from that standpoint rapists are evolutionary winners and more respected by women than incels, which is pretty obvious to anybody.

          I am guessing that Cosby got all of this accusations because liberals can stand intelligence and decency less and less and will eventually try to outright imprison and murder all who exhibit them, even non-famous people. This isn’t some conspiracy crafted by the big oak table, it’s a series of processes their animal minds are unable to understand.

        • I don’t usually disagree with anyone here (besides the idiot WNs), but I have to call BS regarding the “women love rapists” assertion. Why the hell you think anyone…man or woman…would “love” a monster who holds them down and forces them to have sex against their will is beyond me.

          You think people like being viewed as living masturbatory devices rather than human beings? That they enjoy being rammed without lubrication, getting torn and bleeding? Having to deal with the disgust of being covered with another person’s sweat and saliva and other fluids who has no permission to be that close to them? Yes, people absolutely look forward to sobbing and begging their rapist to stop because of the pain and fear they feel…being scared shitless of getting an STD is always fun too.

          I was “lucky”. My stepfather only raped me with his mouth and fingers. Thank the Gods he never actually put his penis in me…I hit puberty when I was 10 and likely would’ve gotten pregnant and have to undergo an abortion. Even the 7 years of this I went through was enough to ensure a lasting fear of sex, intimacy, and just basic touch. Were it not for the love and patience of my FwB, I would probably be a absolute mess in regards to sex still. As it stands, I’m unsure if I’d ever be able to trust anyone else to the extent I trust him.

          I don’t like going off like this…it’s not in my personality. But to say that people who forcibly take away another’s humanity are “loved” just instills such a visceral sense of wrongness that I can barely stand it. I understand that these are just words, but the message they give is so totally incorrect. I have a slight hope that you actually meant that some women (maybe even a majority) like “dominant” partners though, and simply used harsher language than you meant…

        • Tarnished, you have to understand that the kind of suffering you’re describing is simply not the kind the kind of reaction almost any modern woman has to rape.

          Rape was never, unlike what they tell you, about consent. It was about being impregnated by a wrong man for women and mostly just a property crime against woman’s father or husband.

          Since modern women don’t understand the concept of a relationship, children are now everybody’s due to state and cretenization of society getting worse by the day modern women don’t care how a man takes them. In fact, by not understanding consent he is proving he is stupid enough to be a good genetical find in terms of evolution.

          You claim you read the Story of… article. Well, that’s just it. Giving women “rights” means they vote providers out of the story since the only providers become very wealthy men. This turns their preference to seducers and in time rape becomes prevalent as a way of breeding.

          For most women today rape is only unpleasant if they’re raped by an incel. But that is kinda beside the point since an incel simply asking them for a date brings about the same effect.

          If anybody is interested https://caamib.wordpress.com/the-story-of-your-incel-an-inconvenient-truth/

        • Really? How many women have you asked?

          Have you gone to a victim support group and listened to their stories? Have you heard them talk about their nightmares, or how they struggle with not wanting sex with their boyfriend anymore because one of his frat brothers decided her body belonged to him for the night? Have you seen women openly sobbing as they try to decide between being true to their faith and carrying the fetus to term…or getting an abortion because they can’t stand the idea of waking up every day for 280 days being reminded of the fact they were raped? How about the stories of women who were raped up the ass and needed surgery from being torn so badly? Or being terrified of your blood test results coming back and finding out you now have an STD because your rapist obviously didn’t use a condom?

          Is rape the most horrible thing that can happen to a person? No. You could have your hands cut off by a serial torturer. You could have your cock or clitoris cut off by a rabid ex-spouse. You could be kidnapped and used as a drug mule. Lose your face to an acid spill, or get beaten to death by muggers. I can think of many, many things that are worse than a single rape…but that in no way whatsoever means that rape is “good” or “enjoyable”.

          Perhaps the letter of the law in the past was that a rape was a “property crime” against the father or husband. Well, guess what: That is bullshit, and probably why the law was changed. My body is *my* property, same as your body is *your* property. Not my father’s. Not my lover’s. Absolutely not my stepfather’s. Nobody can make decisions about it other than me.

          (For the idiots out there: I’m obviously not talking about times when my parents had to decide things for me when I was very young, like eating well or getting vaccinations. The majority of parents do that. However, I am against infant male circumcision, because in that case the parents are making a decision they have no right to make.)

        • Tarnished, I was gonna give a long reply but gave up. Not because I don’t respect you or because I don’t feel like it, I just want to get to base of this.

          I know you believe all of this. I know this would absolutely be the case for you and a portion of today’s women.

          Unfortunately, the decline is much more steep than you believe. If you knew the truth about how bad it was you would probably suffer the greatest shock in your life.

          The reality is that in in a couple of decades things like consent will be entirely forgotten in the west. the kind of children we see coming into the world today will ensure that. there will be no way out, no escape, nothing. i notice this now with women and rape. but it will get much, much worse soon.

        • Also, Tarnished, you were abused as a child.

          But most modern Western women aren’t abused as children and see that rapists are extremely successful so they start gulping on their cock when they turn 15.

        • “…start gulping on their cock”

          This right here means it isn’t rape. If a woman believes that a man is attractive and spreads her legs for him or gulps his cock, then it’s obvious that both of them want it.

          Could she pick a better partner than a thug?
          Yes. But in this case the thug isn’t raping her. She has willingly decided to share sex with him. He may be a suck-ass partner, or a thief, or even a murder…but he’s not a rapist. I am not going to delve into why some women write to or even marry criminals. I have no clue, and frankly the very fact that it happens sickens me. Perhaps they have mental deficiencies, or grew up in such a broken home that they wrongly believe that violence = love or protection.

        • @Tarnished

          If I was charitable and wanted to read his comment as not crazy, i’d say the following:

          – I think he refers to the “new definition” of rapist. A guy who is simply persistent, and keeps trying despite token resistance. (i.e. players and seducers).

          Remember the new definition is that a rapist is anyone who ever attempts anything past the first no, and who doesn’t verbally get confirmation “are you sure you would like to have sex with me”

          – Whereas you are talking about the old definition (someone grabbing someone by force and ramming their genitalia despite lubrication

          Now, this is if I were charitable. If he actually means the old definition of rapist, than yes, his comment is crazier than WN comments.

          However if I read his comment by the new definition of rapist, than its absolutely true. Women for the large part fall in love with and choose to reproduce with “alpha” guys who push past token resistance. (Most) women see men who ask for permission and who quit on token resistance as wimps and unworthy of reproducing with.

        • @AlekNovy
          Thanks for the potential explanation. I really, honestly hope that you’re right and he meant the new definition. I personally wouldn’t call that rape though. If I didn’t want to have sex, I’d kick and bite and punch as much as possible to get away. For something so intimate and personal as shared sexuality and pleasure, there should be no doubt in either partners mind about what they want…and what the other wants, too. Why the hell would you take the risk?

          Then again, other than my stepfather, no boy or man has ever even attempted to do such things to me. I know that the majority of males aren’t selfish, unempathetic bastards like him, especially as all my friends are men and I identify as male-minded myself. Feminists like to see rapists around every corner, but they are typically family members or at least somewhat known to the victim. This betrayal just makes it that much worse, imo.

        • @Tarnished

          You might not define that as rapist (neither do I, nor most sane people)… But this is what’s getting passed as official law in so many countries and states. Most first sex on the planet (99% of it) qualifies as rape by the new definitions.

          And I understand caamib’s frustration because I spent my early youth as a virgin because I spent all my time listening to women and feminists complaining about aholes. So I spent those years avoiding doing what the “aholes” are doing, which I was told was equivalent to rape.

          Until I realized I saw both the women and the feminists BANGING THE EXACT GUYS DOING THE EXACT THINGS that they said were aholish and rapey. And they fell in love with these guys, got dumped by these guys, cried for months over these guys.

          What did these guys do? Ignore token resistance. Didn’t give a crap about lack of signs (went and made a move anyway)…

          While I was there for years waiting for these signs that women said I’d be given if a woman was interested. The signs never came, not to me, not to any man I’ve ever known (save for celebrities). I struggled for years coz I was told only rapists make a move without OVERT, IN YOUR FACE “make a move” signs… and I questioned if I was the ugliest man on the planet, but then I noticed no man I knew got these signs either….

          The women were too busy banging the ahole “rapists*”, and we were all wondering wtf is going on.

          *-New definition of rapist of course…

        • @AlekNovy

          I hear about such laws in the news…absolutely insane. Why the hell can’t people just have open communication and body language? I don’t understand the girls my friends dated in high school, or the women they talk about now. They’d constantly ask me why she moved their hands away from her breasts/pussy, and then dump them later for “not going all the way”. As though *I* had any frickin clue…I’d realized by 8th grade that women were crazy and I was shit at communicating with them.

          I think it’s worth noting that such women have made men afraid of overstepping their boundaries to an extreme amount. Take my FwB for example; I constantly tell him he’s sexy, give him small touches along his back, nibble his ears, and run my hands through his hair whenever possible. But I basically have to start caressing his manhood before he even begins touching back…In other words, I *always* initiate. In the 8 years we’ve been having sex, he’s initiated it twice. I’ve tried (sometimes desperately) to tell him I’d never turn him down. That I think about him constantly, and I’d find it really hot if he’d even just hold me around the waist while I’m cooking, or kiss me out of the blue…to just let me know he wants me, too. But he can’t work around the programming his previous 12 partners put him through. It’s not his fault, but it sucks all the same.

          I truly believe that the sexes are just going to end up with mandatory “restraining orders” automatically issued to every person someday.

        • @Tarnished

          They’d constantly ask me why she moved their hands away from her breasts/pussy, and then dump them later for “not going all the way”.

          That’s the reality men have to deal with. Whether its because the girls is afraid of “seeming too easy” or because she’s one of the billions who believe in “playing hard to get”… that’s what women do for the most part.

          (I mean except when they meet Roger, for him they jump into his bed straight from hello, zero resistance from hello to bed)

          Now, combine these with the laws that say it is illegal for him to try again, and we get the current mess.

          Most women will give at least some token resistance (to not appear easy, to play hard to get)… And if you as a guy don’t try again, she will tell all of your friends the next day how you were a wimp and gave up too soon.

          But if you try again, that legally puts you in the rapist category. And things are only getting worse.

        • “Women for the large part fall in love with and choose to reproduce with “alpha” guys who push past token resistance. (Most) women see men who ask for permission and who quit on token resistance as wimps and unworthy of reproducing with.”

          Yeah, I’m sure she liked him because of his awesome “alpha” persistence. I’m sure persistence will result in success in some cases, but the persistence doesn’t create attraction (it just overcomes certain barriers). Classic association/causation mix-up.

          Why does every nerd who has a history of being ignored by girls believe on some level that his behavior is what will make him be attractive to girls (the classic game fallacy)?

          I think its because the guy who isn’t attractive to women can’t accept that who he is isn’t sexually attractive so he needs to believe something he does can compensate for that immutable inadequacy.

          A shame. I’ve seen Alek make some sensible comments elsewhere. Apparently scratch him you find a gamer. Oh well.

          Show me a guy who doesn’t get girls, and I bet you a hundred to one he has developed some kind of belief about how you “have to act” around girls to make them attracted to you. Show me a guy who is good with girls, and he is totally normal around them, treats them like his male friends, and never thought for once in his life that he had to act a “special” way around them to be found attractive. He has no “theory” about what girls find attractive. He isn’t try to compensate for inadequacy.

          The idea that girls don’t show interest probably has the same root. Its totally false – girls show clear interest all the time, and even approach men all the time. And no, not the top 5%. I and my friends are reasonably attractive but far from anything spectacular and we get approached a few times per month, and signs are everywhere. I am by no means an exceptionally attractive guy in New York. I see girls approach guys here all the time. The guys who get no signs and no approaches are unattractive guys – probably the bottom 50% (below average, that is). Such guys don’t want to admit that, so they have a “theory” that women don’t show interest, etc, blah, blah.

          Ultimately our picture of “reality” is so often a product of ego-protection.

        • Tarnished, of course personality compatibility plays a role in attraction, especially long term attraction. But that’s just being who you are.

          The kind of behavior Alek is talking about, where being persistent past resistance is seen as “alpha” and makes women fall in love with you (what a joke), is something totally different. Its supposedly a behavior that makes women (all of them) fall in love with you that has nothing to do with individual personality compatibility.

        • In fact, girls make it easy for guys they like (duh), and if there is resistance, pushing past it doesn’t make you “alpha”, it makes you kind of desperate.

          It probably works occasionally but isn’t something I’d recommend to guys and won’t make her respect you. Having self-respect and refusing to chase a girl who isn’t meeting you half way is far more likely to “impress” her, if you even care about that.

        • @Roger

          YOU READ THINGS I DIDN’T WRITE AND THEN WENT ON A RANT about things I didn’t say.

          I didn’t say that “being persistent” makes women attracted. ITS NOWHERE IN MY COMMENT, YOU MADE IT UP.

          That’d be me CONTRADICTING MYSELF since I have spent YEARS DEBUNKING THAT SAME point.

          I did say that women continually fall in love with and develop crushes with these guys… Here’s the subtle difference (try to read before you respond to what you **imagine** was written).

          The reason I made this point is to point out women’s/feminist hipocrisy WHO continually whine about men being persistent, YET the only way to get to sex with most women is to go past token resistance.

          A woman usually falls in love after you give her a good banging, and you spend some intimate time with her. But the only way to get to that point is to do exactly what feminists tell men not to do (i.e. make moves without waiting, don’t give up on token resistance) etc

          On interest showing, learn to read before you reply

          OF COURSE WOMEN SHOW INTEREST ALL THE TIME, and this is to most men, not “just the top 5%”.

          In fact it’s a fact the vast majority of relationships and hookups happen with the woman initiating *BUT ITS SUBTLE and not unmistakable*. I’ve written so many times about this, i’d be contradicting myself IF I SAID WHAT YOU CLAIM I SAID.

          If you actually took the time to read instead of ASSUMING and writing huge-ass responses based on SKIMMING you’d see the difference.

          I was REFERRING TO THE FEMINIST DEFINITION of showing signs. It’s right there in the original comment and I even put it in BIG LETTERS, yet somebody like you that wants to be a smart ass will miss it on purpose, so he can write a huge comment to e-brag.

          I made it clear I was talking about “OVERT OVER THE TOP IN YOUR FACE SIGNALS OF INTEREST”. Women are WAY more subtle than feminists or female complaints would have you believe.

          As a boy you spend your youth listening to hundreds of women complaining how a guy approached them or made a move, when they were merely friendly. So you ASSUME they must want you to ONLY approach if they give 1000% over “fuck me now” signals.

          What they don’t tell you is that almost no difference and the signs are double-meaning, and subtle and never direct. What they don’t tell you is that you never have a 100% signs and you’re always meant to risk (make the move and find out of the sign was for you, or if it meant make a move).


          Feminists say you’re a rapist if you make a move on anything less than 1000% super enthusiastic, in your face UNMISTAKABLE signals of interest… And when I say only the top 5% of men get such signals, I am talkng about these unmistakable over-the-top signals. It’s how women approach celebrities with a direct “take me home and bang me”

          Feminists say that if there’s EVEN 5% of doubt, you shouldn’t approach or make the move, as that’s a mini-rape.

          Now, since you were busy e-bragging, WILL YOU NOW CLAIM YOU HAVE A 100% success rate

          Because if you don’t, what the fuck is your point? Because my entire point was that the feminist definition says you are being rapey anytime you don’t have a 100% success rate. (most of the general female population has a softer version of this iditioc claim, as they whine whenever a guy makes the wrong move or at the wrong time)

          THEY CLAIM that as a man you have to know with a 100% certainty EXACTLY what woman wants what move at what time. You took the time to e-brag to a bunch of strangers about how you get interest and are attractive all the time.

          Are you going to claim a 100% success rate? If not, then what the fuck is your point, when you agree with me…

        • @Roger the attractive handsome troll

          In fact, girls make it easy for guys they like (duh), and if there is resistance, pushing past it doesn’t make you “alpha”, it makes you kind of desperate.

          Are you a virgin, or purposefly misreading to e-brag?

          SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT WOMEN ALWAYS DO EVERYTHING THE EXACT MOMENT YOU ATTEMPT IT AND NEVER DELAY YOU. Wow you must go from hello to fucking in 5 minutes you wonder boy you.

          SO YOU HAVE A 100000000000000000000% success rate when you go to a kiss no matter how early, AND WOMEN NEVER turn their head with a slight smile to indicate “try later”. IT NEVER HAPPENS TO YOU!? It happens to Brad Pitt, but not to you.

          – ALL WOMEN jump into bed with you THE VERY FIRST SECOND YOU TRY?

          – All women remove their BRA THE VERY FIRST SECOND you go for it, and never slow you down, EVER NEVER?

          – The moment you suggest to a girl to move somewhere THEY JUMP IN JOY and move immediatelly and you never have to try twice or try later… WOW!!!!!!!!!

          Bro, you are officially more attractive than Brad Pitt and Justin Timberlake and George Clooney and Justin Bieber and Johnny Depp combined. Congratulations on your internet-penis, it’s really huge.

        • Also, playing hard to get doesn’t exist. That there are HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of copies of magazines sold to women EACH MONTH with tips on how to play hard.

          THAT DOESN’T EXIST. Women never play hard to get. The moment you show interest, they jump into your bed, no playing hard to get.

          APPARENTLY THE BIGGEST BESTSELLERS FOR WOMEN OF ALL TIME BEING STRATEGIES on how to “play hard to get” (i.e. show token/fake resistance) IS A COINCIDENCE.

          THOSE BILLIONS OF READERS reading articles and tips on this ARE JUST DOING IT AS A JOKE, because as ROGER the internet virgin expert has informed us, WOMEN NEVER ACTUALLY DO THIS, ever!

          The moment you show interest, it’s a smooth ride from there (as long as you’re not ugly).

          SO APPARENTLY women spend money to buy books to learn how to act around ugly guys. BECAUSE according to roger, women only play these games of faux resistance (hard to get) with ugly guys.


        • This right here means it isn’t rape. If a woman believes that a man is attractive and spreads her legs for him or gulps his cock, then it’s obvious that both of them want it.

          Yet feminists and new laws still classify that as a rape. If the thug kept pestering her and tried to bed her 10 times before she went for it… according to modern definitions this is “rape”.

          Even if in that 10th attempt she absolutely enjoyed every second of the sexual encounter.

        • That’s completely nonsensical. If people are truly that swayed by peer pressure, then how does anyone uphold their own morals?

          I never uttered a curse word till I was 16. Just didn’t feel it was necessary, and too many kids my age were using said words in immature ways, trying to prove they were “adults”. It was so stupid. When I was 13, a bunch of my classmates pooled together their allowances and offered me $100 to say “fuck”. But I refused, because by accepting their bribe and giving in to peer pressure I’d not only have compromised my morals, but I’d have shown them that people can be “bought”.

          Now, Alek…tell me true: If I could decline $100 at age 13 because I didn’t want to curse, how is it that an adult woman can’t overcome enough peer pressure to stand up and leave the room if she truly doesn’t want sex? There shouldn’t be such a thing as “token resistance” or “playing hard to get”. If you want to have sex, have sex. Don’t be an idiot about what partner you choose, and use protection unless you’re together for the long run…but don’t pretend you don’t want it if you do!

        • There shouldn’t be such a thing as “token resistance” or “playing hard to get”. If you want to have sex, have sex. Don’t be an idiot about what partner you choose, and use protection unless you’re together for the long run…but don’t pretend you don’t want it if you do!


          In an ideal world we’d eliminate

          – slut shaming
          – creep shaming
          – token resistance
          – games of all kinds [both men and women play games]
          (people would say what they mean, and mean what they say)

          Unfortunately society seems to be evolving quite slowly, maybe some generations in the future will experience this world.

        • @Alek

          Alek I’m not concerned so much with the mechanics of getting laid, that’s not my issue. Maybe girls put up token resistance and you won’t get laid if you don’t push past it, I disagree and haven’t experienced that, but I don’t really care about that.

          If you said girls have been educated by our feminist society to play hard to get and fuck with guys etc, etc, again not in my life but whatever, no big deal.

          Its your brief and disturbing foray into feminine psychology which contradicts everything you’ve been saying these many years that’s the problem.

          The idea that women want ‘alpha’ guys and screen guys for wimpy behavior, and if you don’t make sure to behave in a non-wimpy and ‘alpha’ way — no, just no. Not that again.

          Could’ve come from the mouth of Roosh or Heartise himself. That’s just an ego-compensation program for guys who aren’t attractive to women (physically and personality wise, they just have off putting personalities, etc).

          I used to admire you for rejecting this concept so strongly, which is so obviously an over-compensation for feelings of inferiority.

          The concept of ‘alpha’ which you once railed against in your saner days but now seemingly embrace is the single most ruinous concept in relations between the sexes and poisons relations between the sexes.

          Just as you say thousands of guys are depressed because they don’t realize women show them interest (doubtful), thousands of guys are terrified of approaching girls because they are afraid they have to be ‘alpha’ and that women screen them for non-wimpy behavior – its the single largest thing responsible for approach anxiety and keeps thousands of guys who if they just approached in a normal way would get lots of traction from women from approaching at all – and thousands of guys fuck up encounters with women by anxiety over being ‘alpha’ and whether the chic thinks their behavior is wimpy or not.

          Contrary to retarded PUA bullshit, and some of your own writings, no guy grows up thinking that being “nice” is the way to get women, whatever feminists say. Not one guy. The “nice guy” meme is as deeply embedded in our culture as anything, and its one of its biggest lies. Every guy grows up thinking he’s gotta be cool, tough, dominant, manly, alpha, and everything else to impress women.

          Its only when a guy gets older and more mature does he realize what a load of horseshit popular culture has sold him, and all he has to do is absolutely normal and himself, and yes, even polite, friendly, and respectful, to have any success with women. Some younger guys are very fortunate to have been born with very sane, level headed, and stable personalities and never fall for the alpha bullshit, and these guys are good with girls even when younger.

          Lets get out of this poisonous hell and back to sanity and normalcy .

        • And no, I’m not saying being “nice” is SUFFICIENT (or often even necessary, depending on circuamstances and how attractive you are to her) to get women.

          You get women if you are physically and personality wise attractive to her – ‘nice and ‘alpha’ are two totally irrelevant concepts in sexual attraction.

          You can be as nice as you want, if she digs your personality and look, you’re in. I’m the nicest and friendliest guy in the world to women and never try and act ‘alpha’, and girls who like me, like me. Those who don’t don’t.

          At the other end, if she’s REALLY into your looks, status, and personality, then you can GET AWAY with acting ‘alpha’, although it certainly doesn’t help.

        • @Roger


          You reading comprehension challenged freak, DID YOU NOT SEE THAT I USED “alpha” in QUOTES. It’s right there in the fucking original comment.

          I was EXPLAINING (RELATING) why a YOUNG KID CAN GET THE IMPRESSION that “alphas” “aholes” get the girls. I NEVER SAID IN THE COMMENT THAT “aholes make women attracted”. YOU FUCKING READ SOMETHING THAT WAS NEVER WRITTEN.

          I AM NOT GOING TO PUT 10,000 pages of disclaimers or clarifications or re-explain things I’ve explained before – in every comment because a smartass like you wants to play gotcha. I Assume most people have the ability of NUANCE or will ask for clarification if not sure.

          —-> not be a wimp, have to be an alpha

          AGAIN YOU FUCKING inexperienced internet smartass, I was simplifying “how a young boy gets to feel cheated by society” or “how a guy might develop the belief that girls love aholes” – in a short comment meant to relate to a guy who felt that way.

          I am not going to re-explain every fucking subtlety in every FUCKING SINGLE COMMENT or insert every sub-clarification possible because smart-ass virgins want to play gotcha. It’s a short comment, not a fucking ebook.

          I NEVER SAID “you have to be an alpha to approach women or they will destroy you as a wimp” YOU ARE FUCKING INSERTING FUCKING WORDS INTO MY FUCKING MOUTH.

          I was merely pointing out that MOST WOMEN will NOT JUMP ON YOUR COCK THE SECOND YOU SHOW INTEREST. You are REQUIRED to persist, and some falsely label the mere act of persisting as being “alpha”

          This is not the same as “women are attracted to alphas and treat wimps like shit” —> YOU ARE INSERTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH.

          BUT IT IS A FACT – that if you DO NOT PERSIST, do not battle token resistance, YOU WILL NOT GET LAID (or at least 100x less) than the guy who does. The guys who persist WILL get to reproduce with more of them, that’s not a “pua” theory, that’s fucking reality. MOST WOMEN ON THE PLANET do not jump straight on your cock the moment you show interest – that’s a fact.

          ARE YOU CAPABLE OF ANY FUCKING NUANCE? This is not a “pua/game” concept. It’s REALITY. Saying this DOES NOT MEAN I AM ALSO SAYING the other 1000 iditioc things PUAs say ALONGSIDE IT. Somehow your brain READS THINGS NOT WRITTEN on the page, just because one concept “reminds you” of what some PUA somewhere said, so you READ everything else he said EVEN IF ITS NOT ON THE PAGE.

        • Every guy grows up thinking he’s gotta be cool, tough, dominant, manly, alpha, and everything else to impress women.

          That’s just not true. So I don’t exist, neither do most guys I grew up with? I spent my early youth trying to be as nice and pleasing as possible. (most countries in the world have introverts and geeks and sensitive guys AND MOST buy this lie, not the “be tough and dominant” version.

          We were told guys who persist and make moves on women were aholes, and I (and most guys I know save for the “aholes” who actually got laid) – thought women want us to be passive guys who wait for 100000 signals before making a move… We had feminist campaigns come into our schools and teach us how dominat men are AHOLES and part of the systematic opression of women.

          We thought that being super-passive and submissive was the nice thing to do, and guys who don’t do that are aholes. This was told to us by all female we knew (some directly, most indirectly through complaints about “aholes”). Only about 10% of the guys I knew in my youth were in the “be tough and cool and dominant” thing.

          Its only when a guy gets older and more mature does he realize what a load of horseshit popular culture has sold him, and all he has to do is absolutely normal and himself, and yes, even polite, friendly,

          ALL HE HAS TO DO!?!?!? IF YOU DO THESE THINGS women will JUMP ON YOUR COCK and DO THE MOVES? You won’t have to do any of the 100 or so moves expected of you in-between hello and sex?

          IF YOU ARE “just normal” your dick will slide into her by MAGIC?!?! AND SHE WILL NOT PLAY hard to get and there will be no games to overcome?!??!?!

          –> Listen dude, I HAVE gone through the phase you’re going through… it’s a compensation and I want to help you

          Usually after you REALIZE that you’ve overcomplicated this getting women thing, you go to the other extreme and OVERSIMPLIFY it. You go into this ideology where you accept the other extreme that says “all you have to be is normal, polite and friendly, and if women are interested they will jump on your cock”

          THIS IS JUST AS extreme as the pua crap, except it’s the OPPOSITE extreme and you are COMPENSATING for having fallen for the first (pua) extreme.

          If being NORMAL was all it took to get women jumping on your cock as if you were a celebrity, THE AVERAGE partner count wouldn’t be ONLY 4-7 partners in a LIFETIME depending on country (that’s distorted by the outliers, so it’s really just 2-5 per LIFETIME)

          YOU ARE NOW IN A FEMINIST THEORY EXTREME (just be normal and polite and women will do all the work, never play games, you won’t have to do any work, women will make it all super easy for you and approach you and jump on your cock) – and you INTERPRET anything above this feminist extreme as being “pua”.

          The QUICKER you overcome this phase roger, the quicker you will actually lose your virginity. I went through the same phase. Most guys I know who left PUA did so too. It’s just a compensation phase. It’s the pendulum swinging.

        • I fucked a hot Asian feminist by insulting her political beliefs online. She wanted to meet up and fuck. (I would normally pass a feminist up for sex, but I never had a Asian chick before, so I sold my beliefs out.)

          When I was polite and respectful I never had sex.

        • @The Real Peterman

          The only thing worse than PUA Dating theory is Feminist Dating theory.

          Feminist dating theory:

          “If you’re simply a non-evil normal guy who doesn’t hate women, you will auto-magically find yourself in dates, sexuals encounters and relationships with great women, you just have to be normal and ‘treat women like human being TM’ everything else will automagically happen. And if it doesn’t, you must be FUCKED UP in some way”

          I consider this feminist gaslighting theory to be a a form of bullying, it really is.

        • Men are so sub human, that women feel entitled to invalidate and attack men no matter what they do. I think this is just female social bullying of low status men.

          Instead of trying to explain themselves, men should just call out female social bullying for what it is.

      • Hmmm. You have to understand that Cosby grew up and married at a different time, a time when liberal decay didn’t destroy as much as it does now.

        So maybe Cosby still sees women as decent beings, because in his youth many were still socially pressured not to act as they naturally do – criminally insane psychopaths.

        Some older people simply go on living in the past and don’t really understand how younger modern people work. Especially if they married long ago. I see this all the time.

        • You sound like a defeat the leftist type. Liberals didn’t ruin women, women have always been socially violent and selfish, it is just the envrioment that has changed.

          Cosby doesn’t understand simple cause and effect it seems.

      • Anyways enough talking about how to get girls. Its a stupid conversation. You go out, be yourself, talk to girls, like you would your friends, and those who like you, will like you.

        Anything beyond that is just mental masturbation for guys who aren’t attractive to women (look bad and have off-putting personalities). The less attractive you are to women, the more complicated you make it.

        BTW, I hope no one thinks I am ‘mocking’ anyone for being unattractive. I myself am not very successful with women. There are tons of guys way, way better than me. It’s utterly meaningless and trivial. If you are, you are, if you aren’t, you aren’t. There is nothing you can do about it anyways and the less you think about it the healthier you will be. Forget everything you’ve ever heard about getting girls and just be a normal social being, and what will be, will be.

        • Inclined to agree.The reason so many mes who are successful also appear obnoxious isn’t cause/effect, but the slack they’re given through being attractive.

          There’s something to be said about women’s malice towards “needy” men, but that’s overstated I feel. Becoming neurotic about oneself and what can be done to ‘make women like you’ is a miserable road.

        • Inclined to agree.The reason so many mes who are successful also appear obnoxious isn’t cause/effect

          I’ve been saying this for 10 years and dispelling the notion that “thugishness is attractve” or “assholes are attractive”

          , but the slack they’re given through being attractive.

          Attractive enough to that girls yes… But more importantly that THEY MAKE THE MOVES. The reason aholes get laid more often is that they care less about inconveniencing people… They go and make the moves, they don’t wait until they are 1000% certain.

          Limiting yourself to only asking out the woman who’s over the top throwing herself on you, limits you to only a portion of the women who find you attractive.

      • So apparently simply hitting on girls while being yourself isn’t enough and its “bullying” to claim that it is. And so we come full circle back to game. So what must we do, Alek? What tactics must we employ to get girls? How is being ourselves not enough? Do tell.

        Or rather, don’t.

        It really is simple. Just talk to girls. I’m sorry you can’t accept that. Accepting that would mean facing the stark reality of what you can get, your limitations. But I guess I’m “bullying” you for suggesting that if you can’t get the hottie you want simply by talking to her than you probably aren’t in her league.

        You can’t accept reality, so you complicate shit. The fact that you still write about getting girls with such passion should have been a dead giveaway for me. Only someone who is still “searching” and hasn’t found what he wants can maintain that level of interest and passion in so tedious a subject.

        And then your talk of how a guy can be a 7 just by getting muscle and clothes. Is a skinny girl with a tight body but poor symmetry and a horse face a 7? No. She’s a plain girl who isn’t fat. Same with a guy. If you have a bad face and poor symmetry getting in shape won’t save you. It’ll help, but it won’t save you.

        According to alek, any guy can be a 7 by getting into shape, and a male 7 can get up to 3 points above him. According to alek, any guy can get a 10!

        Fascinating. Reality is, huge numbers of men even if they are in the best shape of their lives will never get even a 7, much less a 10.

        That’s reality, not Alek fantasy land.

        But hey, don’t let reality “bully” you – no, its HUGELY complicated getting girls, you can’t just talk to them while being yourself, maybe not as complicated as Roosh says, but still, complicated, man, and just get in shape and you’ll be able to get girls 7 and up. And keep on going – if you’re not getting what you want, then you just haven’t figured out the rules yet (in alek’s case, all those signs of interest that you are SOOOO getting but somehow are completely blind to, even though humans are pretty good at reading each other. Somehow its never a problem to tell if a coworker is angry, upset, anoyed, but in dating? It’s a total mystery!)

        Life really is dandy,

        • So apparently simply hitting on girls while being yourself isn’t enough and its “bullying” to claim that it is. And so we come full circle back to game. So what must we do, Alek?

          MAKE MOVES!!!!

          SIMPLY “being normal” WILL NOT CAUSE WOMEN TO

          – INVITE YOU HOME

          And so we come full circle back to game


          ACCEPTING THAT you as a MAN WILL have to MAKE MOST OF the moves is NOT “game”. IT IS FUCKING biological REALITY.

          I will not RESPOND TO THE REST OF your comment filled WITH DISTORTIONS AND STRAWMEN, because you SPIT out 100 an hour, UNTIL you RESPOND TO THIS FIRST ONE



          Will women say “fuck me, take me home”, lean into you and kiss you and MAKE ALL THE MOVES, if you DO NOTHING ELSE except be normal.

          YES OR NO?

          It really is simple. Just talk to girls. I’m sorry you can’t accept that.

          IF YOU “just talk to girls” your penis will AUTOMAGICALLY end up in her vagina, and YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO MAKE ANY MOVES?!?!??!

          How will this happen? You are talking one second, and she trips over a stone, and ends up naked, and you slip over ice and end up flying through the air and your penis ends up in her vagina?

        • Fascinating. Reality is, huge numbers of men even if they are in the best shape of their lives will never get even a 7, much less a 10.

          Maybe because MOST MEN don’t ask out any 7s, because they’ve bought into your BULLYING theory that they’re not ALLOWED to ASK ONE OUT unless she GRINS AT THEM and MAKES IT SUPER clear?

          Listen troll, if YOU ARE UNABLE to get anything except UGGOs its PRECISELY because you’ve bought into this feminist theory

          The reason you can’t “get a 7”, IS PRECISELY because you wait for women who throw themselves at you and make it SUPER-DUPER over the top OBVIOUS they want you.

          GUESS WHAT, only women UGLIER than you do this over-the-top feminist shit. Guess what, this is EXACTLY why FEMINISTS PUSH this theory that a man SHOULD ONLY go for women who are over the top super-enthusiastic and should never try with women who are less over-the-top enthusiastic.

          Asking WOMEN OUT IS NOT “pua” you fucking RETARD

          – PUAs did NOT invent the idea of ASKING WOMEN OUT or making moves.

          – The NOTION THAT you CAN ASK WOMEN out who aren’t grinning at you at all times is not a PUA notion.

          – The notion that you can MAKE A MOVE without waiting for 1000% certainty IS NOT a pua notion, nor is it game you fucking feminist troll.

          Seriously STOP BULLYING MEN you feminist troll

          Stop telling men that they are “NOT NORMAL” if girls aren’t Jumping on their cocks, leaning into and kissing the men JUST BECAUSE they “had a conversation”

          STOP TELLING THE YOUNG BOY READING THIS that he is “unattractive” if a girl isn’t jumping and PUTTING HER TONGUE IN HIS MOUTH.

          ACCORDING TO YOU FUCKING BULLY, if a BOY HAS A CONVERSATION with 500 girls, and NONE OF THEM jump to kiss him, ALL 500 of them FIND HIM UNATTRACTIVE.

          FUCK YOU FUCKING BULLY. ASSHOLES LIKE YOU are why most men spend their 20s with low-self-esteem and feeling depressed. FUCK YOU.

        • Will women say “fuck me, take me home”, lean into you and kiss you and MAKE ALL THE MOVES, if you DO NOTHING ELSE except be normal.

          This is the feminist bullying notion that “if you just have a normal everyday conversation with a girl, everything will automagically happen if she is interested”.


          Where’s the part inbetween exchanging words and exchanging fluids. SOMEONE HAS TO MAKE THE MOVES?

          ARE YOU SAYING THAT IF YOU JUST “make normal conversation” SHE WILL MAKE THE MOVES? (unless you’re ugly).

        • System has no editing feature, so I have to post this as new comment, as first one was badly written.

          So apparently simply hitting on girls while being yourself isn’t enough and its “bullying” to claim that it is.

          NO. Just fucking NO.

          – IT IS BULLYING to claim that GIRLS FIND YOU UNATTRACTIVE unless they jump all over you.

          – IT IS BULLYING TO CLAIM girls find you unattractive if you don’t automagically end up fucking them after a “normal conversation”.

          YOU STILL HAVE TO MAKE THE MOVES to find out if she’s attracted or not. AND NO, it’s not TRUE that women make it 1000000% clear they want you to make a move, approach, ask them back home (that’s a feminist lie to prop up getting ugly feminists laid, as they’re the only ones who do this overt and in your face shit).

          Btw, you are literally calling me insane As I lay at least 8-12 girls a year who DO NOT show this super-duper overt “omg give me your cock” interest, just because I made conversation with them. Apparently this is impossible. My entire sexual history is a lie, why, because you read a feminist theory somewhere that WOMEN ONLY fuck guys they show super-duper overt GRINNING interest in you, right from hello.

          And so we come full circle back to game. So what must we do, Alek?

          – YOU ASK HER OUT

          (you know, you make moves)

          – Making moves is not game you fucking retard.

          – “Game” is the bullshit notion that you can “create more attraction” by talking, walking or acting differently

          – ME SAYING THAT WOMEN WILL NOT JUMP ON YOUR COCK JUST BECAUSE YOU HAD A NORMAL CONVERSATION AND YOU still have to make the moves Doesn’t mean I’m saying you have to not be yourself or any of the game concepts I HAVE SPENT YEARS dismantling, you fucking retard.

          STOP INVENTING WORDS THAT DON’T EXIST ON THE MONITOR and then ascribing them to me.

        • Alek,
          Didn’t you have a post that described how Asshole Guy A will always have more of a chance to get the girl over Shy Guy B, simply because the first guy approaches and the second guy does not? Maybe giving a link, or copying over some of that would help. I thought it was a good argument, at least.

        • @Tarnished

          Didn’t you have a post that described how Asshole Guy A will always have more of a chance to get the girl over Shy Guy B, simply because the first guy approaches and the second guy does not? Maybe giving a link, or copying over some of that would help. I thought it was a good argument, at least.

          Will it make a difference when we’re dealing with someone who’s not arguing in good faith?

          This feminist shill/troll is purposefully ascribing words I’ve never said, twisting my words, and actually claiming I’m saying things that I myself spent years dismantling.

          Here’s the troll formula
          (This is how feminist trolls operate on this subject, I have experience with many over the years)

          Alek: Women who are interested in you will not always spell it out for you, there will be some shyness, hesitancy and mixed signals because women are afraid of appearing too easy… most women who are not interested in you will not come up to you say “hey I’m attracted to you, be my boyfriend”

          Troll: Oh, so you’re saying that men need to pester women who are CLEARLY uninterested and harass them despite telling us to fuck off.

          Alek: No, if its clear disinterest you move on. I’m saying that most women expect you to take some risk, and will give you sometimes good signals, sometimes act non chalant etc… It won’t be 100% over the top “OMG I WANT YOU” it might be 80% clear she wants you to ask her out, but it won’t be 100%

          Troll: Oh, so you’re saying men need to game and manipulate women into liking them!!!

          Alek: No, I’m saying a man never knows for a 100% certain unless he make the move. It’s wise to have “some certainty” that there’s a realistic chance she’ll say yes, but if you wait for 100% certainty, you’ll be dateless for quite a while…

          Troll: Oh so if a woman tells a man to fuck off, men need to harass her until she calls the cops?

          It’s like talking to a programmed feministbot

        • Fair enough. I thought it might help any lurkers though, or people who could use a refresher. As for signals, unless they are pretty “in your face”, I tend to miss them too, so I can somewhat understand how difficult it is for men who are trying to actually woo a female partner. Heck, I’ll miss signals in regular everyday conversation with women! It must be so frustrating when you’re trying to actually date them.

          What are some common signals you’ve noticed over the years?

        • @Tarnished

          What are some common signals you’ve noticed over the years?

          Actually they’re surprisingly simple. They’re all combinations of hovering, hair play or over-the-shoulder glances.

          The most common ones for strangers are:

          – She throws/strokes her hair each time you pass her and throws a glance over her shoulder (not at you, in your general direction for 0.5 seconds)

          This one is the strongest one in my experience. Highest success rate when meeting these girls. Most light up and are happy you said hello.

          – Hovering and looking over shoulder and continually finding excuses to pass by where you are

          Problem with this one is that if you’re with male friends, you don’t know whom its for.

          If it’s a supermarket though, it’s a set deal. If she keeps appearing at the same aisles looking at the same products, and she does the shoulder glances… set deal…

          – Accidentally bumping into your or stepping on your feet

          – Catching her looking your way when you were looking at something and she turns glance down shyly as if caught (valid if it happens multiple times)

          Here’s the problem

          Most women who like a guy don’t even do these. The percentage who do these things are somewhat reasonable in social settings. (like a party held by a yoga school or birthday party where every has mutual friends)

          But if you limited yourself to only meeting these women in clubs, bars, streets, you’d limit yourself to a very small pool of women.

        • Do you find that women in bars or clubs are different than others? As in, is the mindset you encounter in a bar very disimilar from one at a meet up or bookstore?

          I’ve never been to a club, and the only bars I’ve sat at are just the side ones in restaurants. I’m curious about the types who go there…

        • Do you find that women in bars or clubs are different than others? As in, is the mindset you encounter in a bar very disimilar from one at a meet up or bookstore?

          I’ve never been to a club, and the only bars I’ve sat at are just the side ones in restaurants. I’m curious about the types who go there…

          They’re not different people. The environment is different and makes them act different. Only a tiny percentage of people are “club people”.

          Most people in a club are just normal people who occasionally go to a club. I.e. they are the bookstore people, they are they yoga people, they’re not a different species.

          For some reason clubs make people tense, anxious, worried about how they appear, in some weird conflict between being horny and not wanting to look like a slut.

          You can meet the same girl in a bookstore, comment about book, and she’ll be very friendly, relaxed etc.

          Approach her in a club (exact same girl) and she’ll be stiff, reserved etc, If a non cute guy approaches her in a bookstore out of nowhere, she will be polite and reject him gradually. If a non-cute guy comes out of nowhere and approaches her in a club, she’ll be hostile.

          (I’m actually a sociologist by training, also trained in social psychology and anthropology, which is why I am so fascinated by all this stuff)

          People have different personas for different contexts. It’s part of the roles we play in society.

        • We’re actually on the same page.

          To me, “hitting on girls” means making moves. Obviously you indicate interest and initiate sexual contact (when appropriate), all while being yourself and normally social. That’s all it takes. Anything beyond that is complicating shit. Obviously talking to girls without indicating any interest or becoming sexual will result in much less sex than doing so.

          I just considered this so obvious in this context as to be taken for granted. In the context of a conversation about courtship practices, talking to girls ‘normally ‘means indicating sexual interest and becoming sexual.

          In the context of your remark that women find men who don’t persist past supposed token resistance wimpy, non-alpha, and thus unworthy to reproduce with, ‘acting normal’ means engaging in courtship without any effort to appear ‘alpha’, the definition of non-normal or ‘special’ behavior being the game concept of ‘alpha’.

          So – you have to be socially normal, talk to girls, and COURT them (indicate interest and become sexual). I don’t know what advice feminists give, but if that’s what they say, its pretty darned good advice.

          Definitely better than fostering a male preoccupation with being perceived as ‘alpha’, which whether intended or not is the inescapable effect of your little paragraph on how women see men who don’t persist.

          I strongly disagree with you regarding clubs, although it could be the clubs I go to. I don’t go to the huge clubs but the smaller ones, and the dance bars. In these places, people are hugely relaxed and women are quite open, and generally quite clear about who they like.

          God, its almost as if women never make eye contact with you! Alek, do you EVER make eye contact with women? What about on the street? In the subway? During the day?

          Its like you don’t believe women make eye contact.

        • We’re actually on the same page.

          No we’re not. After everybody pummeled you on your fantasy feminist claims and it was clear you’ve never actually left the house and gotten laid, you changed your claims, pretending you never made the absurd claims you had made.

          To me, “hitting on girls” means making moves.

          EXCEPT you ONLY used that term after you got pummeled to the ground for your virgin theories and had to accept it.

          Obviously you indicate interest and initiate sexual contact (when appropriate), all while being yourself and normally social. That’s all it takes. Anything beyond that is complicating shit.

          I’m THE GUY WHO SPENT 10 fucking years teaching this and have convinced thousands of people.

          You’re now quoting my lessons back to me as if you’re the one who came up with it? I’m the one who had to battle generations of PUAs to convince them that “anything past making moves is over-complicating”, now you’re pretending to teach me?

          I just considered this so obvious in this context as to be taken for granted. In the context of a conversation about courtship practices, talking to girls ‘normally ‘means indicating sexual interest and becoming sexual.



          IF IT WAS, EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE 10+ partners a year like a guy who does do this. The average guy ONLY has 3-4 girlfriends PER LIFETIME. And no, its not because they wouldn’t like more, it’s because they wait for the rare times a girl spells out how she wants you.

          What’s “normal” is to wait until a girl throws herself at you, and “things just happen” with her doing most of the work. That’s how most “normal” guys get their average girlfriends every 5-10 years.

          I don’t know what advice feminists give, but if that’s what they say, its pretty darned good advice.

          Feminists leave out the “make moves and take risks conciously” part and claim things will AUTO-MAGICALLY happen if you just make conversation, and they also claim all INTERESTED women will show SUPER enthusiastic interest. They claim there will be no hiccups, no akward moments or misreading of her signals (as all women give 100000% non-mixed super-clear signals at all times). Everything will be perfectly smooth and unless you’re a rapist every move will go through smoothly with zero friction, misunderstandings or need to ever try anything more than once.

          (i.e. all the bullshit you originally claimed)

          THEY ALSO MAKE THE BULLYING CLAIM YOU MADE “If a girl isn’t staring back at you with a grin, SHE’S NOT INTO YOU SORRY” and this bullshit about how women will spell out their attraction to you and never refuse/delay any of your moves if interested at all.

          This is the feminist bullying shit This is a feminist theory/claim and the source of most depression and low self-esteem for young guys.

          Which isn’t true in the real world, where most women are too shy to spell out their attraction and jump you from the first second. Most take some time to warm up before they show interest back and expect you to take most of the initial risks.

          God, its almost as if women never make eye contact with you! Alek, do you EVER make eye contact with women? What about on the street? In the subway? During the day?

          Its like you don’t believe women make eye contact.


          THIS WAS NOT THE TOPIC you fucking backtracking lier.

          YOU CLAIMED: IF A WOMAN IS INTERESTED IN YOU (80% of the time) SHE WILL **STARE* AND SMILE A HUGE SMILE AT YOU (later you added “if you look at her”)

          This WAS THE BULLSHIT claim that everybody called you out on and deemed you a virgin by.

          NOBODY HAS SAID “women never make eye contact of any type” YOU FUCKING LYING STRAW-MANNING PIECE OF SHIT.

          Anyone who has any solid results (or even has left the house at all) will tell you most women at most do over the shoulder glances, subtle short glances in your direction, etc… VERY FEW (top 1% most confident women) stare and GRIN at you.

          With most interested women on the street you’re happy to get “1 second glance” “look to floor” “glance back for 0,5 seconds” “look toward tree”. This virgin fantasy about (80% of interested women) STARE AND SMILE at you is your original claim.

          YOU’RE NOW BACKTRACKING to the more broad “eye-contact”.

        • In the context of your remark that women find men who don’t persist past supposed token resistance wimpy, non-alpha, and thus unworthy to reproduce with,



          DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT QUOTES ARE USED FOR in this context YOU RETARD? It implies SOMETHING IS NOT REAL or you are not validating it as a real concept

          I was relating to a guy who had developed the belief that “women love abusers” – and explaining how guys develop this belief for the benefit of Tarnished, trying to be diplomatic in connecting two worldviews.



          IT IS A FACT THAT MOST WOMEN are bummed out when a guy gives up too soon AND END UP BANGING THE GUYS who don’t give up too soon. And unlike your theoretical ass, I ACTUALLY have hundreds of female friends and see HOW THEY label guys who give up too soon. THEY USE THE WORD “gay” “wimp”, “pussy”. This is not PUAs who invented this shit. Women say this shit the world over.


          IF YOU GIVE UP any time ANY woman doesn’t immediately accept a move, you will end up not getting most girls who are attracted to you. (guys who persist/don’t give up will get more of them).

          Unfortunately because mainstream society calls these guys “aholes”, this is how someone can develop the belief that “women like aholes”.

          They don’t, society lies to you that persistance means you’re an ahole. Society lies to you that going for less than 100000% in your face signals makes you an ahole.

          MOST OF THESE GIRLS will label you a “COWARD” to their girlfriends. This was not invented by PUAs, MAKE SOME FEMALE FRIENDS AND SEE FOR YOURSELF. See how they throw around the terms “coward” “homo” merely because they gave some subtle-ass mixed signal and a guy didn’t act on it.

          The reason I used the language I used to describe this dynamic in your favorite paragraph, was to relate to the guy I was responding to and build a bridge between his manospherian/pua worldview and that of tarnished. That’s why “alphas” is in quotes.


          GUYS who give up too soon, give up on token resistance and don’t see that it is token (the girl lets you know through body language if its real resistance or merely “try again later”, “it’s too soon” “not in this location” “not this date, next date”)

          – “we’re not sleeping tonight”
          – “oh I’m not that kind of girl”
          – girl moving away from first kiss attempt
          – first undressing attempt
          – moving your hand when you try to caress her boobs first time

        • @alek,

          Most successful encounters with women don’t involve ‘resistance’. Those are rare, and the result of a mistake on your part in terms of pacing and need for complete strangers to become comfortable around each other.

          Among that sub-group of socially maladroit men who constantly elicit resistance through bad calibration, those who persist probably score more, but not by a lot.

          In my experience, when you make an error in calibration and elicit resistance, most girls (yes, most) will make it so clear they want the interaction to continue (like my example when a girl refused my kiss but put her arms around my neck and pulled me close – I hope even you will admit NO guy will kill the encounter after that), and even make a move themselves, that the difference between guys who persist and those who don’t isn’t that much.

          Of course, some girls will be supremely passive, and may protect their egos by calling men who didn’t persist “wimps” – but it isn’t a big part of the dating scene.

          I know you think you are helping, but you are doing a disservice to men by trying to convince them that persistence is normal and frequent, or that it will be difficult to tell if you should persist. The girl will almost always make it SUPREMELY obvious she still likes you and wants you to persist – this means that the ‘problem’ of many guys not persisting doesn’t really exist. Even “nice guys” get it when a girl refuses a kiss but puts her arm around, or smiles deeply into your eyes, or moves closer to you, or puts her hand on your thigh.

          What “official culture” says is almost meaningless – no guy listens to that. It’s always been like that. There’s always the official version and what “everyone knows” to be true really. Now guy who has a girl reject his kiss only to make one of the moves I just described above which makes it blindingly obvious she likes him, is going to end the encounter because “official culture” says he should.

  7. tamerlame

    “You sound like a defeat the leftist type. Liberals didn’t ruin women, women have always been socially violent and selfish, it is just the envrioment that has changed.

    Cosby doesn’t understand simple cause and effect it seems.”

    I am not saying leftists ruined women per se. I am saying that societies that weren’t leftist canalized female psychopathy in a way that made society run well. The problem isn’t the female personality, which is always the same. The problem is that “leftists” (I prefer the term liberals or progressives) not only fail to canalize women’s personality well but actually give women an upper hand to reign over men.

    The effects of this are absolutely disastrous and will result in a collapse of Western civilization.

    Cosby might not have understood any of this but why blame him? Most people don’t. Cosby at least saw there was something wrong, which is better than most brainwashed sheeple.

    If Cosby grew up in a time when women were decent he probably couldn’t recognize what happened to them as society became more liberal. Not really something you can blame him for. Most people don’t spend their time thinking about these issues in an extremely detailed manner, especially after they get married.

    • The leftists made the modern capitalist economy?

      It is due to the surplus of capitalism that women are able to act in such an insane and hostile way to the rest of society. Women acting like this in a pre-modern society would die off.

      Also you use the term liberal in a totally meaningless way.

      The left/right dichotomy doesn’t really work when it comes to women, it is pointless.

  8. Tarnished and Alex, my reply to your comments will be quite long and complex so you’ll have to wait a bit. What Alex says is basically true, but I’d have to explain it in a much deeper and complicated way. His post is correct but oversimplified. And I know Tarnished won’t like what I’m saying.

  9. Not all women like rapists, but enough sick women do. Why do women write letters to serial killers and sex offenders in prison? I am talking about old definition of a rapist, not the new definition.

    Why do so many women have rape fantasies.

    Also a lot of women who don’t want to be raped love the idea of other women being punished and rape. Women are sicker than you think.

    • @tamerlame

      “Why do so many women have rape fantasies”
      It doesn’t matter. A fantasy is a safe way to imagine something and control it in your mind. It’s not real. You don’t wake up the next morning with a torn vagina, or bruises on your neck, or someone else’s flesh under your fingernails from where you tried to fight them off. Nobody is going to stick their cock up your ass or cum in your mouth if it’s not what you personally imagine happening. And if you want, you can pause the fantasy right away and go make a grilled cheese or pay your car insurance bill without anyone knowing the difference. Fantasies aren’t reality.

      Why don’t we use another analogy:
      My lover is a straight man. He doesn’t look at men. Other than a passing confidence about his own, he doesn’t think penises are particularly attractive. He does not watch gay porn. Other than a single “playing doctor” occurrence when he was young, he’s never touched another male in even a vaguely homosexual way. Yet he has gay fantasies from time to time, and gets turned on when I talk dirty about us having a threesome with another man. My lover isn’t gay…but you’d say he must be since he has a gay fantasy a few times a year? Some women would probably be worried, and start thinking of dumping him,

      Okay, let’s go for a non sexual analogy;
      One of my customers really hates his boss. He says the guy can’t ever be pleased, is constantly breathing down his neck, gives him extra work compared to the other employees, and is just a generally rude a-hole to him. He often mentions running said boss over with a forklift, or just hauling off and punching him in the face. Does this mean I should report my customer to the police for planning a murder or assault? No, because it should be blatantly obvious to anyone without a frontal lobotomy that he is simply using these violent fantasies as a way to relieve stress and cope with a situation he has no control over.

      Let’s leave the Thought Policing to the Feminists and hardcore Christians, please. Shaming or punishing someone for thinking the “wrong” way is *not* good.

      • I am not thought policing at all. I just wish women where honest enough to admit their fantasies.

        The type of women who is most likely to falsely accuse a man of rape is a woman with a rape fantasies, but is unable to admit to herself she has them and is not able to deal with it, so she has to falsely accuse.

        That feminist who wrote a false rape threat to herself was clearly getting off on it.

        Also I am not talking about you personally, you are not like other women, so stop projecting your traits onto them. A lot of women are sick and insane.

        • Tarnished your heart is in the right place, but at the end of the day, you never had to deal with the mind games and gaslighting that women do to men in regards to male sexuality.

          Wanting forceful men, who can read a woman’s mind and just take her, is wanting rape. Then deselecting men for asking permission after complaining about pushy men is just mentally abusive to men.

          I have had women freeze up on me during sex, when I stop, the women mocked me for being a loser later on. I don’t push past token resistance as I am not comfrotable with it and I don’t want to get done for rape.

    • “Why do so many women have rape fantasies. ”

      I wasn’t aware “many” did. I would imagine that some women who grew up in a porn culture such as the USA, the UK and France (The Anglos and French are the inventors of BDSM, sick bastards!) do. But the vast, vast majority of women do not live in the US, the UK or France.

      If there have been studies on womens fantasies, I think I’m safe in saying the majority of women studied are of Anglo descent. That’s usually how these studies go: The US, Canada, the UK and Australia are where they find their guinea pigs.

      Going by “rape porn” on google, American men are searching for it – a lot.

      Again, I’d bet the American men who are searching for “rape porn” are primarily of Anglo descent.

      Again I think it goes back to their ancestors. I don’t think a fetish for rape porn is universal.

      • Most romantic novels have rape in them. Or rape by the current legal definition. Women have fantasies about pushy manly men who take what they want, and somehow read the woman’s mind knowing that she really wants it.

        Women want forceful manly men, women want the right to label any interaction with them as harassment. Women are mental

        • Women want forceful manly men, women want the right to label any interaction with them as harassment. Women are mental

          The feminists who enacted these laws are not represenative of women. It seems like women are mental if you compare the contradiction between what feminists say and what normal women say.

          It’s only a contradiction-indicative-of-mental-problems if they’re said by the same person, but they’re not. Normal women would never agree with those laws, in fact most women would be appalled if they learned of these laws.

        • Alek I know for a fact that feminists still want manly men to hit on them, they still want to ban low status men interacting with them at all.

          Germine Greer is a paranoid mentally ill feminist, but I’ve seen her fawn over young fit men, begging to sleep with them.

    • “Not all women like rapists, but enough sick women do.”
      The reason why almost all modern women like rapists has nothing to do with sickness or fetishes/paraphilias. That’s another thing. This is much more prosaic. These women are being attracted to the kind of male that’s successful with other women – stupid to the point of simply raping a woman. This is because women simply adjust to be attracted to the kind of male that’s most successful with other women.

  10. The idea that women like rape -as in forced penetration- is simply ridiculous. What many women appear to enjoy is being *dominated* by a suitable man, where he initiates and is in control while they remain passive. There’s clearly a difference between that and rape, although the lines could be blurred with feminist definitions.

    • Destructo,

      Thank you for being another voice of reason. Feminist definitions can go pissed up a rope for all I care, especially if they are helping to cause such massive confusion.

      Being dominated *can* be fun, just like how being the dominating partner can be. I enjoy both. But the thing that so many people forget (or perhaps are just ignorant about) is that there’s a necessary layer of trust. A rapist doesn’t give a crap if you get hurt or if you want X, Y, or Z. However, a partner that you trust to dominate you will have your own safety and pleasure in mind the whole time…regardless of how normal or extreme.

      • It’s part of an erroneous conclusion that women enjoy abuse after seeing observing them in relationships with men who appear to have little respect for them – the stereotypical asshole. What those who believe this fail to realize is that these men have been given “permission” to act that way all along. It isn’t abuse women seek, but validation from a partner who’s opinion “matters” ie. high status, someone does not feel the need to be particularly considerate of her feelings. The abusive behaviour, if it exists, is incidental.

        If I or anyone on this blog were to behave towards women in a similar manner, ignoring social boundaries and etiquette, we wouldn’t suddenly gain “alpha” status, we would be hated that much more. More importantly, it’s quite dangerous to send the message that women might enjoy something that is by definition unwanted, or that men need to keep pushing in the face of resistance that is more likely the result of genuine disinterest/repulsion. I tend to agree with Roger in that I get the impression that the right men don’t ‘push’ past any resistance.

        • Maybe I am being extreme, but I don’t give a shit.

          I feel this female dominated culture has sent me mixed messages about sex.

          I went from having no sex for years. to having the women who sleep with me worship me. I could of had sex years ago, if I wasn’t made to feel guilty about sex.

        • Because feminists made me feel that women where afraid, that hitting on women would scare them etc..

          Also I was a victim of sexual abuse so I used to empathize with female rape victims, now I believe most women who claim to be raped are mentally ill liars.

        • Geez, this indoctrination has got to stop. Women shouldn’t be afraid of a guy hitting on them, nor should men feel like “creeps” for doing so. What happened to honest communication?

          Re: sexual abuse
          I can certainly sympathize with you in this. Being used by someone for their own pleasure with no cares for your own is a terrible thing for anyone to go through, whether it’s one time or over a span of years. I hope you’ve healed from the experience, or are getting better.

          It’s interesting the amount of statistics out there about false rape claims. 8%, 50%, 2%, 70%…the numbers are literally across the board. I am unsure if we’ll ever known the truth, but I’m confident that until there’s actual punishment for making a false rape report, they will continue to be made.

        • Honest communication never existed. The typical feminine female exists by invalidation and gaslighting of men. Feminism is basically invalidation of men, dehumanizing of them.

          Feminism is relational aggression on a massive scale.

        • Hearing my grandmother and great-grandmother talk though, it doesn’t seem that way. It could be due to them being directly from Germany/first generation, but they always spoke well of their late husbands…acknowledging their strengths and weaknesses, talking about their accomplishments and failures, but never in a harsh or cruel way. Just giving me a good picture of the men who crossed the ocean or built a home together with their wives. I never knew them, but I’m proud of being of their bloodlines nonetheless.

          Being raised in my developing years by my grandmothers instilled the seeds of my current mindset of egalitarianism. Whether you’re male or female, you work for what you want…never take more than you need…stay frugal in the plentiful times so you have something when it’s lean…always put elders and handicapped/hurt people first…if you see someone in need, try to get them help or offer assistance yourself…what you reap is what you’ve sown…etc. Lots of lessons that have served me well 75% of the time. The other 25% I’ll admit to getting burned because others aren’t living under the same morals and will take advantage of anyone willing to stick their neck out for their fellow man.

        • A while ago, I watched the movie, Rebel Without A Cause. It was made in 1955, so pre-feminism. James Dean’s character’s dad could have been something I read at a MRA or MGTOW website about how marriage was bad for men. Sure, he didn’t have to worry about divorce, but he was miserable because his wife was such a harpy. James Dean’s character tries over and over again to get his dad to grow a backbone and stand up to her to no avail. He was too beaten down to stand up to his wife. And this was before feminism, so he could have actually done it and gotten away with it.

          This to me proves that feminism didn’t change women but just exposed women’s true nature. If a movie from 1955 can have such a subplot, then women are no different now than they were back then.

        • Yes, there’s always been women who use men, are cruel to them, or view them as utilities. But it seems to be less likely in couples who actually had to work together to create lives in new countries/areas.

        • Even if that’s true, you’re talking about a rare situation. Before the car was invented, most people left traveled more than 20 miles from where they were born, and that is taking into account people who migrated to the new world.

      • … I don’t understand how anyone supposed to tell the difference between token vs genuine resistance anyway. Perhaps Alek could enlighten us.

        On top of this, encouraging men to try and force a social or sexual interaction basically plays into the feminist mindset that unattractive men are creeps women need protection from.

        • Why should I be the one to enlighten you?

          I am not the one doing token resistance. I advocate walking away from women who do token resistance, and to never push past it.

          Destructo you are a fucking weasel implying that I want to force anything of women.

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