45 comments on “AVFM Hasn’t Gotten As Bad As You Think

  1. Kinda makes me wonder just how many private emails he got…A number, even an estimated one, is never mentioned.
    J4G was a great place, but I stopped commenting/reading as much when it began to take a decidedly anti-MGTOW stance in both the comments and the posts themselves.

    • I’m guessing it’s the same number of emails Susan Walsh got which was probably a big fat zero. Back in the days of usenet, it was common for a usenet kook to claim that he was getting support in email which never showed up in newsgroup postings before said usenet kook was about to go down in flames. I believe the same thing happened here.

    • This guy is a massive mangina. Look what he posted.

      “All are welcome to participate in the forum, on the proviso that they actually bring at least as much light as they do heat. You got a criticism, you better make sure you bring a solution, too. I want to see more Men actually talking about the things they’re doing in their own lives and the lives of their fellow Men, to make this world a better place. I want to see Men talk about improving themselves, yes for their own benefit, but also for the benefit of Women who would like to partner with Men worth the trouble.”

      Self improvement bullshit, teaching men to be worthy of women so they can win them like a prize. Anyone who posts that shit should be automatically discounted as an MRA.

      Obsidian has a very odd writing style, frankly he comes across as an asshole, who is self important.

      Partner with a man worth the trouble? I love that turn of phrase as it is women who are the ones who are a burden to men due to the gender roles women choose to impose of men as the price of romantic interaction with them.

  2. Susan and I parted ways just before she kicked the men out (FWIW I thought she was right, hell I was one of the guys who told her to do it – really). Her blog her rules, she had a blog aimed at women, after all. I haven’t spent any time there it in over a year (might be two years? time flies), hope it worked out for her/them.

    Obs and I got along pretty well for years. I do believe the guy truly wants to help men in his own way. My only disagreement at JFG came at the end when a few of the four guys made it plain that MGTOW was not acceptable agreeable to them. You had to improve your position in the market. My position being; you want to do that? fine. If you don’t, if you just want to go your own way? great. The problem was that my ‘thoughts’ were spoiling the narrative, no big deal. Their blog their rules. I offered to help them plug their temporary shortfall in material after the split, they didn’t get back to me. Fine. Hope it’s working out for them.

    Obs left there because he wanted a grand social mission (and they didn’t). I think he’s going to fit better at avfm. As soon as avfm stops damaging MGTOW as a separate beacon from MHRA to guys entering/finding the manosphere, IDGAF what they do anymore. Paul showed his attitude to anyone else’s interests in the pigtow video (25 minutes onward) – fuck him and everyone else who continue to help him do damage to other men. I’m sure there are plenty of good people there, I don’t know why they continue to associate with leadership of that type.

    Last I saw on avfm they were tightening the editorial process and setting the guard dogs loose on the comments. That sounds great…no possible move toward authoritarianism there then…best of luck RMS AVFM (icebergs? what icebergs? full steam ahead).

    It’s really easy to get along with MGTOWs…leave ’em the fuck alone and don’t try and hijack their flag for your, different, purposes.

    • Susan and I parted ways just before she kicked the men out (FWIW I thought she was right, hell I was one of the guys who told her to do it – really). Her blog her rules, she had a blog aimed at women, after all.

      I seriously doubt that you told Susan Walsh to lie that women were afraid to comment because of male commentors. Susan Walsh’s dishonesty is the real problem (which she has a long history of) not an arbitrary blog decision.

      Obs left there because he wanted a grand social mission

      No, he doesn’t want a grand social mission. That gets in the way of his game/”self improvement” bullshit (not to mention his desire to debate everything to death). Like the rest of the manuresphere, Obsidian has been opposed advocating for social change instead believing you can do things like game your way out of false rape charges.

      Even a lot of men in the manuresphere agree with about Susan Walsh and Obsidian. That’s how full of shit the two of them are.

    • Why did you tell her to kick men off? Why did you think she was right? Are you the typical manosphere “red piller?”

      Teaching men how to earn women with proven frauds like game, is not red pill. When you learn about female nature, you should be disgusted with it, not trying to win their approval.

  3. more lies from elam…

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/m-g-t-o-w/mgtow-is-not-a-sinking-ship-yet/

    notice the one part where he goes all trady-con and basically says “oh where, o where are all teh good mehnz….”

    ” In that light, the path they are on is not really the road to manhood, but simply a retreat from the effacing malice woven into the very fabric of their developmental lives. And it takes them not to safe ground, but directly into a dismal culture of shallowness and self-indulgence; a realm of options without obligations; of self-gratification without self-awareness or self-discipline. It is the death march of the western male, destined for a withering end ensured by intellectual, psychological and moral atrophy.”

    • Do you see the comments on that page? A voice for men has turned into an echo chamber. I remember when there used to be decent comments and a debate.

      They have become male feminists, because they act like feminists.

      • I feel like I’m on a really weird lsd trip when reading those comments. One where everyone else took the acid and I’m the only straight guy. WTF happened to these people? They’re straight making shit up, just like the fembotz. Weirdest thing I’ve ever seen in the manosphere.

        • Page is interesting to observe. Grinko has come out as a anti MGTOW snake. MGTOW is a none violent, anti gynocenteric movement about male autonomy, if you are against it, that means you are anti male. I want to find out who the snakes are in the MRM, I want them to show their true colors.

          The old false equivalency with rad feminism, that old trick! lolol

  4. A voice for men was the flagship of the men’s rights movement, and Paul was able to get some things done. He made the most progressive out of anyone. (Not a lot, but the MRA has never achieved much, due to the odds against it.)

    The problem is Paul has now done damage to the MRA, and he can still do more damage. I think his site will die off now, but Paul can do a lot of harm to the MRA in his death throes.

    I am MGTOW and MRA, why should I let these scumbags take the Men’s rights label?

  5. Have you seen Obsidian’s latest article on A Voice for Men? It is just fat shaming and nothing to do with men’s rights. Obsidians obsessed with black women, it is like he is stuck in the negation phase with them.

    I don’t care if a women is fat or not, or if she wants me or not, I just want my human fucking rights.

  6. I came across AVFM back in March 2011. It appealed to me because of its “we are going to let me have their say, and we don’t give a fuck what anyone thinks” stance. I was in college at the time, and the misandry that was engulfing me on campus was hard to take, but the articles and comments in those early days really inspired me to not let the feminists bully me off campus with their misandry. But AVFM made the decision to give women more and more influence regarding the website’s tone, and it all went downhill from there. Little by little, the men who made that website great were kicked out, thanks not only to the women, but the manginas and white knights who infiltrated that website in full force. Now, AVFM has become a parody of the MRM, and a testament to all the mistakes MRAs’ of past decades have made. Old guys like Paul Elam don’t understand what it is like to be young men in today’s world, where they have been curb-stomped with misandry since the day they were born, by everyone and from everywhere. The only thing that keeps most young men going today is hope, and that is fleeting faster and faster.

    • Clint,

      You are not alone in this, my friend. I’ve done the same and trust me, whenever women are allowed into the discussion in regards to all the destruction and depravity led by feminism and current gender politics, things turn to hell real quickly. I really don’t give a damn about NAWALT as NAWALT is like saying a winning lotto ticket exists so we should all play the lottery. It’s stupid, moot, and futile. More and more blogs that were once havens where there were sole men’s voices discusses the many facets of masculinity and men’s issues are now being infiltrated (some downright overtly) with women. Once that happens, the blogs lose their momentum and their core audience begins to dissipate.

      BP,

      I exhort you to use what happened at AVFM as a lesson, lest it should happen here as well. This is one of the few blogs that I can come to for rational dialogue and robust exchange of diverse ideas. But I warn you to monitor female voices very carefully, and I don’t give a damn how friendly they make themselves appear. Keep the tone of the blog the same as you originally had it..a no hold bars place discussing MGTOW and rejecting the social mores that would see us enslaved to pussy. You don’t need to include women into the discussion to keep the material relevant. Relevancy and cogency will come solely based upon the merit of the material presented, not the audience permitted to view and discuss the information. I’m not naming names as I don’t know anyone on here to render such a judgement but I ask that you keep a close eye on anyone who remotely starts defending white knights, those PUA’s jerkwads or even brings up NAWALT. Those are the red flags right there.

        • I will never fall to women either!

          This is one of the few decent anti feminist spaces, that is not full of males bashing other men.

        • I respect that, BP. Just remember one thing..misogyny is as fictitious as a damn leprechaun. You see anyone on here saying that another person is being misogynist, then you already know you’ve got a troll on your hands.

        • Hell no. That’s the last thing we need in these parts is another PUA-harem. That guy may as well be a pussy-apologist because they can never get over the fact that women choose poorly and thus choose evil over good. Their entire solution is to then become that which women want..namely evil. They can’t get their heads out of women’s cooch to realize that their thirst for “the chasm of bacteria” is what is causing them so much grief and pain. If anything we need less PUA’s and more “misogynists” or what they really are..MGTOW’s.

        • ”That guy may as well be a pussy-apologist because they can never get over the fact that women choose poorly and thus choose evil over good. Their entire solution is to then become that which women want..namely evil. ”

          I don’t think so. Whether evil or good women desire a powerful man.

          Else in history not even biblical heroes may get wives.

        • Yet the Bible’s most exhorted figure is Jesus, who, during His ministry on Earth was a humble carpenter who died a painful death as a sacrifice for the sin’s of the poor and the powerful. Matter of fact, men like Herod and Pontius Pilate were the “PUA” or “powerful men” who had wives, but I’m pretty sure they are burning in Hell. The Bible transcends plebeian desires of sex and goes onto exhorting our own humanity, integrity and what God demands of us as creatures created in His Image. So once again, my comment remains. I would warn you not to use the Bible to attempt to justify PUA because there is nothing in there that validates it over what Christ demands of those who follow Him..humility, grace, peace, love, and righteousness. It does not exhort men to power, strength, charisma, confidence, wit, humor, or petty judmentalism by comparing how many pussies one has as notches on your belt. Those who choose good, choose good for goodness sake, not because of any illusion of power. Thus, women demonstrate the emptiness and darkness of their own character since they go after those in power.

          Jesus could have come as a prince with all the power you can ever muster on Earth and could have gotten all kinds of positive female attention and a harem twice as large as Solomon…yet He chose to demonstrate that power is nothing…faith, righteousness, and humility are what God rewards.

          Disclaimer: this only pertains to those who hold to this faith. To those who don’t, my words will come be as empty as the heads of those PUA thugs.

        • ”I would warn you not to use the Bible to attempt to justify PUA because there is nothing in there that validates it over what Christ demands of those who follow Him..humility, grace, peace, love, and righteousness.”

          My issue is not with the PUA but the statement that women’s sexual desires are inherently evil.

        • If the vast majority of them result in divorces, many of them dating and marrying men who end up in the criminal justice system or end up being abusers then the proof is in the pudding.

          BP, I’m starting to get a sniff of a white knight here. If, by what you say, is that women are attracted to power, then by biblical terms, those enthralled by power instead of by sole faith in God and seeking His Will first instead of earthly power, are considered evil. God’s standards are pretty high. There is no gray with God…it is good or evil. So if women desire power in men, instead of seeking the Christ in men (speaking from a Christian context) then they are pursuing power for power sake, instead of seeking God. Bible calls that evil, pal. Read it again.

        • ”If the vast majority of them result in divorces, many of them dating and marrying men who end up in the criminal justice system or end up being abusers then the proof is in the pudding.”

          Definitely that’s the result of the fallen nature that both men and women possess though they come out at sexually dimorphic ways. The problem mainly lies with not holding women accountable.

          ”BP, I’m starting to get a sniff of a white knight here. If, by what you say, is that women are attracted to power, then by biblical terms, those enthralled by power instead of by sole faith in God and seeking His Will first instead of earthly power, are considered evil.”

          No. Just as male attraction is beauty is considered morally neutral I regards female attraction to powerful men capable of protecting them morally netural. If that smells white-knightish it is mainly incidental if the truth is like that so be it.

          I don’t see how being sexual attraction have anything to inherently do with righteousness or wickedness.

          ”So if women desire power in men, instead of seeking the Christ in men (speaking from a Christian context) then they are pursuing power for power sake, instead of seeking God. Bible calls that evil, pal. Read it again.”

          Its for being able to be protected. Its not mutually exclusive with seeking God. I don’t see how seeking a Godly man capable of protecting her is evil in any way.

  7. “My issue is not with the PUA but the statement that women’s sexual desires are inherently evil.”

    White Knight Mangina alert!

    Women divorce men and steal their assets that is part of male sexuality. Women pick thugs and drug dealers over nice humble guys.

    Women have been fucking guys over for 100 years and you are worried that some men think the way females practice their sexuality and use it as a weapon is evil.

    Also what about female behavior outside of sex?

    • “Women pick thugs and drug dealers over nice humble guy.”

      Where, on TV? Yes. Real life. No. This is the #1 lie you manosphere types shovel.

      You and your angry male brethren should try shutting off the video games and Judd Apatow movies and leaving the house once in a while, and actually forging relationships with actual human beings. you’ll be surprised at how ignorant your views of the world are.

    • Assuming that what Elam said about JtO was correct, that actually made me slightly sympathetic towards AVFM. The article that JtO plagiarized was a conspiracy theory about Leo Strauss. JtO plagiarized conspiracy theories, but such things are par for the course for conspiracy theorists.

      While I can believe that JtO is a shithead, how is it that AVFM ends up working with these sorts of assholes over and over again? They got rid of JtO, and now they have manurespherians like Obsidian. I don’t know which one is worse. And on top of that there’s the women and the tradcons. I agree that AVFM is a freak show.

      • Why did they hone on this only John was kicked out.

        John claims AVFM men asked permission to copy his blog post, and he granted it and they published it on his site.

        I don’t really care, because if you look past the John the Other shit, AVFM still attacked MGTOW for no good reason. This is just a side show.

        • *Why did they hone on this only after John was kicked out?*

          Typo corrected! lol

          I get the feeling Paul Elam is very impulsive and arrogant, it is his way or the high way. He sees himself as a Alpha dog leader type.

          He puts people in positions of power too fast, he shits on his allies, he changes his political stance.

          His attack on MGTOW with his book was nasty and insidious. He was trying to water down the definition of MGTOW to make it meaningless.

  8. You call yourself an anti-feminist, pretty strange because most anti feminists support traditionalism, which you oppose.

    This is a common tribe tactic. Adopt the terminology of the enemy(like the “neo-conservatives”), in order to redefine it and make it support their real ideology. What does marxism, feminism, neoconservatism, libertarianism and the ideology of”kosher” anti-feminists like you have in common? A fundamental position that White, Christian society is at it’s root an EVIL, evil thing. The exact complaints will vary of course, made to appeal to a different portion of the enemy population.

    True anti-feminism can never take a position of separating ourselves from women, for men need women like fish need water. What we need to do is restore a traditional society where the harmony of the sexes will be respected instead of denigrate.

    • Feminism has nothing to do with Marxism to be honest.

      I got a rule 99% of people who bang on about cultural Marxism, is only interested in fighting a conspiracy theory, and not holding women to account.

      People who just mention Marxism, are just ant communist and everything is about communism.

      We don’t live in a Marxist society, we live in a capitalist one, the Berlin Wall fell the Soviet Union Collapsed, China is now capitalist.

    • “Men need women like fish need water”

      Oh you mean the same women who said that they need men like fish need bicycles? Jokes aside, what you wrote there has to be the single greatest testament to why feminism got its start in the first place. Because men’s “need” for women. When you give women that sort of unilateral power over you, it WILL be abused, not if, but when. That’s the sort of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place. We have relegated ourselves into believing that the Almighty Vag is necessary for our lives. It’s not. When you forfeit your humanity for anything really..whether it be food, water, medicine, housing, comforts, and ESPECIALLY sex/intimacy/companionship then you have already lost the most sacred thing you were born with. We are NOT animals and we most certainly are in NO danger of extinction (quite the contrary actually).

      Therefore, men do NOT need women. With their wanton recklessness, power-hungry destructive tendencies, they have made themselves obsolete and the one thing that I admire about our species is our ability to adapt. Historically, when there has been a challenge to a subset of our species, we have found ways to adapt that normally wouldn’t be “optimal” based on our habits and lifestyles prior to the challenge. The plasticity of our humanity allows us to survive, and thus we inevitably have come to this precipice wherein we find ourselves with an elevated challenge that reaches into a very deeply ingrained “need” (I call it desire because I’ve never heard of any guy dropping dead of blue balls). Women have over-leveraged themselves through their sex and it’s time men understood just what they have lost pursuing such a plebeian and banal desire. Not need, but a desire. BIG difference.

  9. Pingback: There’s No Difference Between AVFM, The Dickless Mangina Project, And The Manuresphere | The Black Pill

  10. His blogs were shit. Dude got fired from a blog he started LOL. Obsidian or “Mumia Ali” (WTF????) had little to write about except how much he hates fat black women. Who cares? He just looked like some black clown pandering for white pussy he can’t get.

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