Why Won’t AVFM Go In For The Kill?

Tamerlame brought this article from AVFM to our attention where AVFM calls out Roosh (and Matt Forney) for selling piece of shit “supplements” and game that doesn’t work and doesn’t exist.  While I liked a good portion of the article, one of the problems with it is that AVFM will be in bed Roosh again next week.  They have a yo-yo relationship.

There is a fundamental flaw in the article, namely accusing Roosh (and Forney) of being rapists.  If you believe what they have written, they may be rapists.  However, that is all predicated on whether Roosh (and Forney) are getting laid or not.  By definition rapists get laid.  A man who doesn’t get laid can not logically be a rapist.  If you know that game is bullshit, if you have talked to men who have had disastrous results from trying game (as Dean Esmay, the author, has), why would you believe that Roosh and Forney are rapists given that their alleged rape exploits are based on game working?  On the one hand Dean Esmay says that game doesn’t work.  On the other hand, he is accusing Roosh and Forney of being game based rapists which mean that game must work at some level.  Why doesn’t AVFM go in for the kill shot on these two and point out that their rape stories are lies so that they can pretend they are getting laid?  Why doesn’t AVFM point out that it costs $6500 for Roosh to get laid?  Even when AVFM is attacking Roosh, it is still propping up Roosh.

There are two possible reasons I can see that AVFM isn’t going in for the kill.  One, they’re going to flip flop on Roosh again.  Two, like with the rest of the manuresphere, they won’t give up on game because it would be an admission that the best thing for any man to simply avoid women.  AVFM is too filled with tradcons and other assorted old guys to speak the truth about women.

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51 thoughts on “Why Won’t AVFM Go In For The Kill?

  1. To be honest, I just think AVFM is incompetent. They have no long term planning, they just play by ear from day to day.

    They keep on chopping and changing their strategy. One day they are the nice guy moderates, the next the click bait clowns saying outrageous things.

    One minute they are pro MGTOW, the next they are pro marriage tradcons.

    They support Roosh V and allow game con artists in, then they attack game, and then make up with them again soon after.

    Paul Elam is impulsive and a poor leader.

    We need a better MRA platform, one that decides on a strategy that works and sticks with it.

    • I would love to see NCFM rise, but let’s be honest: the Men’s Rights movement gets a lot done when women are at the fore. Honey Badgers will likely be the best representatives of MR positions for the foreseeable future; beyond HBR, there aren’t men’s groups likely to get comparable levels of attention while dodging the accusations of sexism, woman-hating, etc.

      When I get a salaried position in a year or 2, I’m going to start contributing to NCFM.

      What organizations do you like, Tamerlame?

    • Another issue is that they succumbed to the same problems any male space does after allowing women to infiltrate it. And not only did they allow women to contribute to the website but even permitted them to hold authority there.

      No male space can withstand being invaded by females; avfm made a huge mistake by trying to come off as “nonthreatening” and “welcoming” to women. As Anti-feminist Tech pointed out, the only way a male space can stay on track and not eventually fall apart is to be actively hostile to women and reject any attempts by them to join and become part of the group. Once women gain any sort of foothold in a previously male-only space/group/organization it will become overwhelmingly feminized.

      • “No male space can withstand being invaded by females.”

        Very true. And that is exactly what’s happening there. Now AVFM also go on about >muh rape. What happened to atheism now also happens to these moderate men’s right sites.

        And the very same will / is about to happen when it comes to the “alt right”, Roosh is now embracing: they shift the focus to the crimes and rapes of refugees or minorities, and make the prime issue one of safety from crime and rape from non-white men.

        Then they begin to say things like, “That’s what makes us better and different, that women have more rights here.” And then they take over the movement completely and mate with the most alpha and have them adopt some woman-centric white nationalism at the risk of exclusion: he’s too weird, he’s too creepy, he is misogynist just like a non-white man!

        Women just want stuff for themselves, and if you let them in, everything eventually evolves into being about keeping women safe and happy: “Feminism makes women unhappy! Women would be happier in a non-feminist society! Without feminism, men would be more friendly towards women! There would be fewer rapes in a patriarchy! Such extraordinary females like you (all women in these movements consider themselves special snowflakes) will be more appreciated without gender quotas and feminism!”

        And so on.

  2. You know the men poisoning themselves with chemicals that return of kings sells is an angle that might land Roosh V in jail. If Esmay manages to help get Roosh thrown in jail, that means he has done something worthwhile for men.

    Roosh V is a bigger enemy of men than any feminist.

    • “Roosh V is a bigger enemy of men than any feminist.”

      Nah, that’s not true. Roosh is a snake oil salesman with a clickbait site, but he doesn’t really hold any power in the grand scheme of things. The absolute majority of men have never even heard of him – but every single man is directly affected by feminists in education, media, politics, law, business. Politics and systems are much more important/dangerous than any individual.

        • A distraction is by definition only a problem because it distracts from the actual problem. And tradcons (Roosh isn’t one, he lacks, for instance, the faith, the chivalry and in an American context the devotion to Israel) have hardly any power anymore.

          Just believing what all, say, devout Christians have believed until very recently (that abortion is murder, gay sex is sin and that all religions other than Christianity are false) will quickly get you into trouble these days.

          Now, if this is a bad or good thing is another question, but tradcons simply lack the power feminists have, the *institutional* power feminists have: media, law, education, business, politics are simply more important than what some disenfranchised, marginalized and broken people who have only their religion left believe.

          But the real problem I see and what I really don’t like about BOTH sides (both the MGTOW/MRA and the Neomasculinity/PUA side) is that cultish attitude to rather fight each other than to oppose feminists. With all sides believing that victory will be achieved once the heretics are purged.

          You say that Roosh is a bigger problem than feminists, Roosh will say that weak men are a bigger problem than feminists, tradcons will say that godless men are a bigger problem than feminists, some MRA will say that manginas are a bigger problem than feminists … and just like different groups end up blaming men for the bad actions of women (the Jews, the liberals, the Rockefellers, the “beta” men), these different sites accuse each other of being the “actual” problem.

          We have yet AGAIN reached a point where feminists aren’t seen as the actual problem. We have yet AGAIN reached a point where other men are seen as the actual problem. Where we have to fight other men FIRST, and that victory can only come once we have fought these other men.

          And I’m tired of that. Same with all these accusations of being a mangina or a white knight. Too many blogs and comments with an “a white knight like that didn’t deserve any better” attitude. Sometimes a guy coming out of an abusive relationship gets more hatred than the abusive woman: because only a blue-pilled mangina would have entered a relationship in the first place and so on.

  3. Last I’d heard, both Esmay and Elam were in long-term cohabiting relationships. They’re pro-relationship arguments are insufferable.

    Furthermore, they envision a world where men get into relationships and get something positive out of them (a net surplus, if you will) and having laws and policy reflect those bonuses.
    But they ignore the biological reality that women are only interested in relationships if it is net gain for a woman and net loss for the man and that furthermore, women (and men) are not about to consciously override this instinct.

  4. alright, well, I haven’t been to popular lately, tamerlane has even been asking if I’m gay. So, Mr. Black Pill at the risk of being offensive, I will say where I think you have a logical break…

    ” On the other hand, he is accusing Roosh and Forney of being game based rapists which mean that game must work at some level.”

    Using rape shows that game doesn’t work because they didn’t jump through hoops to majically make womyn attracted to them ™ -they (if the stories are to be believed) used force/intoxication and hoped that should anything negative come of the event, they could “game” the judge. If “game” worked, they wouldn’t be using force/intoxication. So by their own admission “game” doesn’ work. Just as if I promote “game” but sell my guitar amps to hire a prostitute then brag that I banged a hottie and admit she was a prostitute, you know game didn’t work but I did get laid.

    • If I remember correctly, Roosh just described how he had sex with a drunken woman tho and how this is considered to be “rape” in some countries. So it depends on how you define “rape”. Other than that I agree with you tho: if you need to rape or hire a prostitute to fuck, game obviously didn’t work for you.

      But it’s generally just ridiculous to join all that current rape hysteria. There already are enough feminists and manginas who do that for you. And the very last thing men need are EVEN more people who go on and on about rape, rape, rape and how having sex with a drunken woman means to be a rapist or whatever.

      If I have to choose between a group of men and women who don’t believe in game but go on and on about rape, rape, rape and how they are only opposed to “third-wave feminism” or how they want “equality” instead of “modern feminism”, or some of that wishy-washy moderate BS — and an antifeminist who believes that game works, I pick the latter. And that might be one of the reasons why Roosh is still more attractive for many men than MGTOW and MRA.

      • “alright, well, I haven’t been to popular lately, tamerlane has even been asking if I’m gay”.

        Your bizarre obsession with homosexuality and memes of Forney is becoming rather off-putting.

        Not only is it just plain odd, but the subject of homosexuality is close to irrelevant in regards to the subjects under discussion.

        Hell, I’m actually jealous of gay men for the simple reason that they don’t have the disadvantage of being subject to sexual manipulation by women.

        • dude, just answer me one question, how come “men” like Jack Donovan are given a free pass to shit all over low status men but I am given props (in these areas) when I point out how a broad like Judgy Bitch pulls the same shit and M(h)RA’s give her a free pass….

        • Aren’t they doing the same thing and getting a free pass for it? So what difference is there?

          I’m not following your question, unless you’re implying gay males have more social power when it comes to speech comparable to women?

    • The reason why I’m correct is because how game is supposed to be involved in Roosh and Forney being rapists. They aren’t saying anything like that they jumped out of the bushes and an assaulted women. What they’re saying is that picked up women using game at clubs. These women had been drinking due to their own choice. The women may or may not have been drunk. According to Roosh and Forney this may or may not have been rape due to what local laws say.

      This is intentionally constructed to be an edge case of rape to troll feminists. There is no way that Roosh and Forney had experiences that precisely describes a situation where feminists would go nuts for an edge case. For this to have happened, Roosh and Forney would have had to game the women in question to pick them up before “raping” them. Since game doesn’t exist, Roosh and Forney couldn’t have picked up their alleged “rape victims”. Thus they can’t be rapists by any definition. Anyone who knows that game is a scam can’t logically call Roosh and Forney rapists.

  5. trigger warning…

    I thought this was one of my funniest meme’s but it has been offending people…

    I believe that Cologne is a false flag operation-notice how most of the “assaults” were reported sveral days later (as WN’s were urging anti-immigrant sentiment.)

    I made the joke that Roosh may be a rapist. It is just as likely most of the sex (if not all) is with prostitutes. Therefore game is a scam….

    • also Sleazy made the point of saying “how would Roosh be able to go back in time and go to Cologne.” The joke is that he has the Roosh forums and the “harassers” used social media so if that was the case, then he would’ve heard about “planned attacks” and if anyone has marketed themselves as “have penis, will travel”-it is Rooshiepoops.

      I’m a bit offended by the liberalism and PC of late. If it’s okay for fuckers to look down upon me for being a halfbreed, it sure as fuck should be okay for me to make off color jokes unless you guys want to act like goddamned feminists…

  6. Energiz,

    “I’m not following your question, unless you’re implying gay males have more social power when it comes to speech comparable to women?”

    I’m implying that gays like Jack Donovan and Milo Y are being given the same free pass that Judgy Bitch and Mandy Marcrap are given and I can drop citations, specifically, Ginko and Toysoldiers referencing Jack Donovan and Milo’s article about Muslim (men.) I can also contrast with Judy Poop/Mandycrap farticles. This is where I have become intolerant of “liberal” MRA’s and the alt right. They are fucking hypocrites. Of course it’s allot easier (and funnier) to say stonerwithaboner is a closet case who must hate himself and will only be happy when he gets his (micro)penis sucked by a gay dude. Trust me, if it would solve my problems hooking up with a gay dude, I’d of done it long ago and I wouldn’t be ashamed about it either…

      • hehe, what did I just watch, that’s 20 min and 8 seconds of my life I won’t get back….

        the only sensible person there was the mousy broad with glasses….

        and, really, I don’t have any social media-I would be lynched as a low status man saying what I’ve said under my real name. Milo and feminist’s ARE the one’s with privilege…

    • You sound like the white racist who whines about all the privilege and social power blacks have.

      You are conflating a rich gay dude with all gays.

      I was abused by my mother, alienated from my father, kicked onto the streets by my mom. Please explain how someones sexuality would help someone in that situation one way or another?

      • I *get* how I sound that way…

        Y’know something funny, the last time I was discriminated against racially, it was by a fucking Mexican, and here I am complaining about White Nationalists….

        Okay,

        “Please explain how someones sexuality would help someone in that situation one way or another?”

        We’ve got a womyn who comes around here and tells everyone how she was abused growing up. If her stories are true, then gender is no protector for childhood abuse…

        However, she’ll talk rather condescendingly to men who are for all intents and purposes celibate and brag about her S&M activities and how she semi regularly gets asked out but makes sure to not be a bitch as she rejects the guys. She fails to see how her situation in relation to “dating” is far better than someone who could ask out 100 women, be cruelly rejected and even face threats of being reported to security or police for “harassment.” Then when this man goes online, he is told he is shooting out of his league, he must give off creepy serial killer mannerisms (because womyn never hook up with violent men evar) and he needs to brush his teeth and comb his hair. So if she “opts out” which she hasn’t but claims she has, it is for FAR different reasons than the theororetical man in the scenario mentioned above.

        If you as I believe this women doesn’t really support low status men, why wouldn’t you also be distrustful of other men straight and gay who empirically have it better than you and most likely have agenda’s that are hostile to you?

    • What do you plan to do on February 14, our annual Spite the Incels holiday?

      Watching The Walking Dead where the main character’s love interest (and her kids) gets killed and eaten by zombies.

  7. Is Ziggy Stardusk 4 realz?????

    okay, IDK if he has done a video on trumo but here he talks abuot campaign promises that berniepoops cahn’t keep-we all know hope and change is bs….

    …but allot of what trumpy says is unobtainable, he can’t build a wall for mexico, and since most stuff happens at the state level (something he vaguely mentions) CA and TX could become more like AZ, doubt that’ll happen though as illegals are a huge part of the economy–I am now rambling on about stuff Ziggy doesn’t talk about-back on track…

    He never mentions killary being bought by goldman sacks. He also seems to mock someone who would want free healthcare, however, in Germany where he lives….

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany

    what berniepoops has advocated was single payer…

    now, I think killary is the most corrupt of them all. I have my reservations about ’em all and likely will not vote…

    …however, he doesn’t mention that berniepoops didn’t vote for invading Iraq and shillary did.

    but looking at the comments section, CS MGTOW says men under 30 shouldn’t be allowed to vote? What the fuck!!!! Guys under 30 sign up for motherfucking selective service. Guys under 30 can be drafted. What’s next, you must own property to vote? Literacy tests? Since Ziggy and CS are soooo edjamacated, they know EXACTLY where I am going, and if you don’t read a fucking history, or do they say herstory book now…

    He talks about Entitlement Culture but he is the guy with Support me to, like, make, uh, videos….

    He doesn’t talk about corporate bailouts so much, he doesn’t talk about the huge corporate welfare.

    He seems to be going the Capt. Crapitalism route of blame, blame, blame someone who isn’t him-in fact, if he was smoking a cee-gar and cursed more, I would think I was listening to crappy…

    So it just seems pretty soon so-called MGTOW will offer bootcamps and run lairs where they tell other men how to go their own way. And the forums will be over-run with lay, err go your own way reports…

  8. Pingback: Why Won’t White Vagina Worshiping Nationalists Go In For The Kill? | The Black Pill

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