About

I am an adult male virgin.  Men like myself are at the bottom of society.  We’re a de facto “untouchable” caste.  People, women in particular, think its all right to kick us around.  The feminist controlled government takes our money and gives us nothing in return.  It’s questionable that we even get any benefits from society.  We definitely aren’t getting benefits equal to what we pay in.

This is why I started this blog.  It’s a place for virgin men, near-virgin men, and our supporters to figure out how we should FIGHT BACK.  We are human beings and we need to remind others of this fact since they have forgotten.  (If you have ideas on how we should fight back, submit them here.)

131 responses to “About

  1. I’ve just gone through a bunch of your posts. You seem like an intelligent man. Intelligent men have options.

    Bearing that in mind, would you sat that your not having had sex (I think “virginity” is a slightly ridiculous concept) an entirely voluntary situation? You don’t want to be shamed for it, which is fair enough, but do you not women in your life in a sexual way at all? Is being a virgin part of who you are now, i.e. your identity, or merely part of where you are currently in life?

    It seems to me that if you desired to have sex with a woman without paying for it, that is a goal which could be achieved within a 6-12 month period for most adult males (any?) with resources and intelligence and a willingness to learn. Perhaps even a man with crippling social anxiety etc. I’m not necessarily talking about game, although I disagree with your assertion that it only works for 10% of men – maybe the flashy routines and club stuff, but not the core principles.

    Anyway, this isn’t an attack or an attempt to shame, I’m just interested in the idea that someone would appropriate not having had sex as an identity of sorts.

    • Bearing that in mind, would you sat that your not having had sex (I think “virginity” is a slightly ridiculous concept) an entirely voluntary situation?

      I could pay for it I suppose. I may do that in the future but I know guys like me who did that and it didn’t do anything for them except that the “virgin” label doesn’t technically apply to them anymore.

      You don’t want to be shamed for it, which is fair enough, but do you not women in your life in a sexual way at all? Is being a virgin part of who you are now, i.e. your identity, or merely part of where you are currently in life?

      What is part of my identity now is being part of the male sexless underclass. (There is no such thing as a woman in the sexless underclass). That is what the big deal is not whether I’m a virgin or not. All my friends (which are all men since I have no female friends) are in the same boat. Some of us have never had sex. Some of us have only by paying for it. A few of us even had some dumb luck. In my group of friends we’re all part of the sexless underclass whether we’re “virgins” or not. Having sex for my non-virgin friends did not allow them to get out of the sexless underclass. Understanding my situation through this context means losing my virginity doesn’t matter. Women want nothing to do with me and going to a hooker isn’t going to make a difference. (That doesn’t mean I won’t go to a hooker in the future. I’m sure curiosity will get to me sooner or later. I just know it won’t make a difference.)

      I’m not necessarily talking about game, although I disagree with your assertion that it only works for 10% of men

      That isn’t my assertion. It’s the assertion of self proclaimed game experts like Obsidian and The Fifth Horseman. My assertion is that game is nothing more than another anti-male shaming tactic. (I expect game to be added to the Catalog of Anti-Male Shaming Tactics in 2-3 years.) Most people talk out of both sides of their mouth when it comes to game. They will admit that game only works for a minority of men (10% or 20%, the number doesn’t matter) but at the same time tell every man that has some trouble with women to “get game” and use it as a platform to attack any non-alpha man as needed.

      If I have appropriated “not having sex” or being part of the sexless underclass as an identity, it’s because what I really interested in is fighting back. I get that women want nothing to do with me and that’s their right. However they are incapable of leaving me alone. They have no right to interfere with my job and try to get me fired with sexual harassment crap, steal my money via taxes, etc. I’m tired of women running everything especially since they are running everything into the ground.

      • “All my friends (which are all men since I have no female friends) are in the same boat.”

        You know, actually trying to make friends with women might be a good step. And that includes being friendly to women that you might not necessarily want to sleep with. Approach a woman in a friendly, open, non-threatening way with no ulterior motives and have a conversation. She might be a little old lady. She might be a lesbian. She might not be interested in you sexually. She might be your next best friend or simply 2 minutes worth of pleasantries about the weather. She might be busy and blow you off. But it’s still worth doing, simply to break down the barriers you seem to have erected between you and “all women”.

        I don’t see men who’ve never had sex as belonging to any kind of “underclass”. If a man told me he’d never had sex, I wouldn’t laugh at him, nor would I presume to think he was some kind of weirdo. I’d assume he had his reasons. If he were friendly, respectful, if I were single, I’d have no problems finding someone like that attractive. I certainly wouldn’t mind the challenge: Introducing someone to the world of sexuality has a certain appeal. What puts me off in a big way, though are sexist attitudes and bitterness directed at women and “feminist society” at large. I’d be out of there quicker than you could say “deflower”.

        • I’ve always found it surprising that the men who are considered sexually attractive by women are inevitably considered supporters of feminism,

          and

          men that are considered NOT sexually attractive by women are inevitably considered bitter angry losers.

          How many men have you received favours from in your life by being female and shaking that moneymaker, Sarah?

          How many men have you given favours to in your life by being male and turning up with ripped shirts, Sarah?

        • P Ray:

          I’m not entirely sure what to make of your reply, but I haven’t actually called the author of this blog a loser. Nor have I referred to men who have never had sex as losers. There is nothing inherently wrong in being a virgin, and as another commenter pointed out, some women are also considered sexually unattractive and are bitter about their involuntary celibacy it. I have no idea whether or not the blog poster is sexually attractive in terms of his appearance or behaviour in real life. I simply find sexism and hateful comments unattractive (whether in men or women).

          However, if you are a male virgin and angry about it, surely creating an entire blog devoted to your anger, in which you (and your regular commenters) refer to women as “sticky cunts” and bitches, complain about feminist society and somehow blame women for everything that is wrong in the world is not going to endear you to most women? A bit of a vicious circle, perhaps?

        • “However, if you are a male virgin and angry about it, surely creating an entire blog devoted to your anger, in which you (and your regular commenters) refer to women as “sticky cunts” and bitches, complain about feminist society and somehow blame women for everything that is wrong in the world is not going to endear you to most women?”

          The funny thing for me is… it’s the “most women” that I DEFINITELY don’t want to endear myself to.

          If “most women” can’t see that their actions are deplorable and are going to make them suffer, I don’t want to be along for a ride with someone counting
          themselves as one of these “most women”.

          Because these “most women” are the ones divorcing men, claiming all sorts of BS oppression, then going out flashing skin and causing problems in HR.

          I’m after the “not-most women” that can bravely say “I appreciate what men to do make the world a better place.” “I will not take advantage of someone’s attraction for me to deceive them”. “I will speak up against women who use men and expect to end up with good men”.

          Are you one of those “most women”, Sarah?

        • I forgot to add…
          She has to be a virgin too. Since I am one.
          Because honesty in relationships is important.
          At least, that is what “most women” say.

        • P Ray: I’m not. But I also disgree that “most women” are the way you describe. I think you are tarring people with the same brush. Loving and appreciating men what they do and being a feminist are not mutually exclusive, contrary to what you believe.

          I’m not sure what your past experiences are exactly, but you cannot blame any one belief or ideology for all of your personal problems, nor can you blame all or “most” women for the evils of (Western?) society. I wouldn’t presume to blame “most men” for what is wrong with the world.

          At any rate, I wouldn’t want someone to pretend to adhere to a certain world view simply to endear themselves to women. That would be dishonest; clearly you ARE very bitter and hateful and have no problems hiding it. There are many, many men who make the world a better place. Sadly, you don’t seem to be one of them.

        • “At any rate, I wouldn’t want someone to pretend to adhere to a certain world view simply to endear themselves to women. That would be dishonest; clearly you ARE very bitter and hateful and have no problems hiding it. There are many, many men who make the world a better place. Sadly, you don’t seem to be one of them.”

          I’m confused by that statement, are you looking for a man who is dishonest or are you saying that I am so good at hiding it that you can detect it?
          “clearly you ARE very bitter and hateful and have no problems hiding it. ”

          Is English your first language?

          “There are many, many men who make the world a better place. Sadly, you don’t seem to be one of them.”
          I’d love to tell you where in the electronic and education sectors I work in where contact with people about their choices and proper advice are required.

          Sadly, you seem like one of those “most women”.

        • “I’d love to tell you where in the electronic and education sectors I work in where contact with people about their choices and proper advice are required.”

          I’m surprised you would ask me if English is my first language when your own syntax is so baffling.

          We’ve reached the stage of criticizing each other’s use of language, a clear sign that this discussion is not going much further. You’ve clearly made up your mind about women and the world and are simply looking for more fuel for your hatred.

        • Er, yes… If you’d taken the time to read my comment before replying you might have noticed that I did concede that women AND men are capable of “nastiness”:

          “Sure, there are women like that. But there are men like that too. It’s called human nature.”

          However, you seem determined to shoehorn me into your stereotype of the nasty, manipulative feminazi no matter what I say, so I might as well not bother.

        • Remember,
          trust and respect are earned!
          “I want a man who just trusts me” “Pre-nups are not romantic” “Of course I’ll work after we get married” “He’s just an old schoolmate”.

          At least, that’s what “most women” who get married
          and later divorced to take half the wealth,
          keep telling the world!

        • Do you realize that women treated me exactly the same way when I thought of them how you suggest I should? My attitude makes no difference in how women treat me.

        • “If he were friendly, respectful, if I were single, I’d have no problems finding someone like that attractive.”

          Translation:
          “Didn’t ask anything of me, will not hold me responsible for my previous bad choices, I want to trade up, hey let’s get comfortable”

          You see, that may be your problem right there. Because women have no problems getting relationships OF COURSE men have no problems getting relationships. Eventhough such a statement misses the fact that many women _choose the same few men_, whereas most men don’t want to be the fallback guy for most women.

          Damn these truths. They just keep moving the pedestal!

      • Telling men how to be able to identify women who intend to use them and stay away from those women is not hatred.
        After all, women tell other women how to stay away from men all the time, and that isn’t called hatred.
        Men and women are equal.
        Women can make choices.
        So can men.

        • It seems to me that this blog is doing a little more than simply doling out dating advice. The implication seems to be that the majority of women in the world are trying to use men. This smacks of a masculinist conspiracy theory: Do you truly think that women as a gender are so manipulative and evil? If that is indeed your view of the world, then I wonder what kind of women you’ve encountered. Sure, there are women like that. But there are men like that too. It’s called human nature. The trick is to find the good men and women out there.

          My initial comment was made in good faith. I was simply suggesting that the men on this blog who have a problem with “women” as a general category try to make some female friends. Seeing women either as sex objects or as potential enemies is not helpful and certainly doesn’t contribute to making the world a better place.

          That said, you are of course free, as you say, to make your own choices. Good luck.

        • If I saw all women as enemies I sure as heck wouldn’t take my parents’ (mother and father alike) advice seriously to be a man who does the right thing and refuses to be taken for a ride.

          As a matter of fact my mother agrees that many young women nowadays are very manipulative.

          Like I said… I don’t see all women as enemies. Just a huge majority of the ones in my generation who have become very adept with the idea that things should come easy to them and men be damned (except the ones they want to have sex with, and later the ones they want to leech off of, tee hee hee) because they held them down…
          purely because they’re female.

          If you’ve lost a job to a prettier woman you’ll probably understand.
          But since you don’t seem to grasp the idea that women are capable of nastiness… you may be one of those women that took the job off of another woman.

          Remember, “sisterhood is powerful”, ahahahahaha…

        • “Remember,
          trust and respect are earned!
          “I want a man who just trusts me” “Pre-nups are not romantic” “Of course I’ll work after we get married” “He’s just an old schoolmate”.”

          You’ve lost me here. What has all of this got to do with me or anything I’ve said? It sounds like a bunch of clichés from a second-rate chick-flick. Please tell me your ideas of “most women” are not based around such tired stereotypes?

          You need to stop imposing these ideas on every single woman you encounter. Guilty until proven innocent, is that it? If it seems to you that all of the women you meet are that vapid, perhaps you should consider changing social circles.

        • Hey, Sarah,
          you never answered my questions. Hope you won’t be like Kate and leave things hanging.

          How many men have you received favours from in your life by being female and shaking that moneymaker, Sarah?

          How many men have you given favours to in your life for being male and turning up with ripped shirts, Sarah?

          Get back to me on that.

      • Those are the women I’ve had the pleasure of meeting in churches, bars, universities and libraries.
        I’ve gone to all the places the “normal” women go to.
        I shall try the mental asylum next. Thanks for jogging my memory!

        • Sorry, P Ray. When you started randomly quoting lines from chick-flicks and insulting me with your hilarious mental asylum comment I lost interest and assumed the discussion was over. I’m interested in name-calling.

          I’m not sure I understood your initital question, which is why I didn’t address it. What is the exact correlation between shaking your moneymaker and ripping your shirt? Are these meant to represent stereotypically female and male behaviours respectively?

          Are you trying to make the point that, since I am female, I try to use my sexuality to gain “favours” from men?

          White and Nerdy: I am sorry you have had bad experiences with women. How a man thinks and speaks about gender and about men and women certainly affects the way I think about him. I am not a manipulative person or interested in getting favours from men OR women. In my experience, men can be as manipulative as women (What is The Game other than manipulation, for example?)

          However, if you look and expect these negative qualities in all or most women, then it might very well be that you’ll find them. I can tell you that most women are NOT like that until I’m blue in the face, but it won’t do anyone any good. It’s up to you to revise your opinion of your fellow human beings.

          Women just can’t win with you guys. If we want a relationship with a man, we’re simply out to ensnare him. If we don’t want a relationship (or want a relationship with a woman) that’s wrong too. What do you think women who read this blog think when they see the way you describe women (as manipulative lying “cunts”, etc.) and the assumptions you make? Are you really surprised you are getting negative comments and “trolls”?

        • You actually demean the women that said those things to me by saying they are lines from chick flicks?
          Wow, I guess it’s true, women are the biggest misogynists.

          The Game is for men what Cosmopolitan is to women.
          the only difference is,
          men are criticised for reading about Game,
          women are praised for reading Cosmopolitan.

          You’re not planning to go on a date with me or W&N (or are you? please feel free to offer), and as previously established… you’re not single. How many men like cheaters? Because they’ll cheat on you too…

          So I don’t think your advice that men should “give more” is really valid.

          If you only address good men when they show signs of going bad…
          maybe the bad men are what you want.

          After all, a world without omega virgins, is one where both the alpha male and the female presently wanting to be in a harem are going to suffer.

          Who’s going to pick up Mr. Alpha’s leftovers,

          and who’s going to do favours for the girl who gave her youth and beauty to the other guys, but demands absolute obedience and subservience from the guy she plans on settling down with?

        • Had to go over university photos where the memories are all stored. It’s amazing that in this day and age of equality, people still want to be kept.

        • You think women are praised for reading Cosmopolitan? Who praises women for reading that, exactly? Most women and men I know recognize that Cosmopolitan is sexism not-so-subtly disguised as “Girl power”.

          I wasn’t so much “demeaning” women as much as suggesting that your view of women fit the mould of a stock-character from a typical chick-flick. I wasn’t quite sure what you were trying to prove when you offered up those quotations. Were you expecting me to say: “Oh, fair point. I recognize that. I too, say those things, for I too, am an evil woman and part of this mythical “Sisterhoood” you keep mentioning.

          As you know, there are almost 7 billion people in the world. More than half are women. Do you really think “most” women fit this narrow, negative, Cosmo-mould? In my experience, they do not. In your experience, they do.
          There is no female conspiracy out to “get you”, P-Ray. In this world, we are all just trying to get by.

          I also don’t believe in this “Alpha”, “Beta” and “Omega” business. Nor do I believe that “all” men cheat and “all” women are manipulative deceivers.

          Those are your words. YOU are the ones who refer to yourselves as “Omega Virgins” – simulatanously an insult and a badge of pride, it seems. I don’t see you as part of an “underclass”. I see you as human beings, no worse or better than others necessarily, except that your way of writing about women leaves me cold to say the least.

          I’m also not sure where you got the idea that I would be going on a date with you even though I’m in a relationship? I suspect you are you just baiting me. Why would you date someone you consider manipulative or mental unstable anyway?

        • You’re right.
          I don’t need to go on a date with you to realise that the more you keep saying NAWALT… the more you are actually confirming, that with options, AWALT.

          “Why would you date someone you consider manipulative or mental unstable anyway?” Are you asking me to give something to you, so that you have a better opinion of me? Sounds familiar. Different people: “You’re such a nice guy, but we can’t be seen in public” “I’m having a bad day and I don’t want to talk” “I think you’re really nice but I’m not ready to see anyone”<- 1 day later, she had a magical connection. I think she's had several since then, true love really comes more than once, ahahahahaha…

          It is better for a "man who is not wanted" to assume "all women are like that" until one desires him enough to show him that is not the case… and break with the sisterhood,

          than it is for a "man who is not wanted" to assume "not all women are like that" and be taken advantage of by someone wanting him as a fallback guy.

          If a woman really wants a man that is not like the men she usually dates…
          she better be prepared to accept the disadvantages that come with that choice. Because every choice has advantages and disadvantages, and women are going to pay a terrible price in terms of relationship stability…
          because of other women.

          You want good men? Start valuing them.

          "Sisterhood is powerful", ahahahaha…

        • You’d excuse a lot of my attitude if I was an alpha that other women wanted.
          “Oh, he’s just misunderstood”
          “The previous girl really treated him badly”

          But since I’ve no problems identifying with this group,
          I am a “bitter angry loser”.

          Women who like to split men into winners and losers, better make sure that their knight in shining armour, is not a peasant in tinfoil.

        • “Different people: “You’re such a nice guy, but we can’t be seen in public” “I’m having a bad day and I don’t want to talk” “I think you’re really nice but I’m not ready to see anyone”<- 1 day later, she had a magical connection. I think she's had several since then, true love really comes more than once, ahahahahaha…"

          Are you trying to make me feel sorry for you? It's almost working, except that your "Dr. Evil" laugh at the end is a little off-putting.

          Seriously, though, do you really think those lines are only ever directed at men by women? Do you not think gay men use those lines? Do you not think men have said similar things to me? Yes, I've been rejected by men saying that they "did not want a relationship now". One guy wanted to sleep with me, but did not think we should "hold hands in public".

          These experiences did not make me think all men are evil. I am also not interested in "bad boys". I couldn't care less about "fixing" someone. I prefer people who already know who they are and who are able to treat others properly.

          "But since I’ve no problems identifying with this group,
          I am a “bitter angry loser”."

          You should stop putting words in my mouth. I have never called you that. Oh, wait, I forgot that you are putting words in the mouth of every single woman you encounter.

          "It is better for a "man who is not wanted" to assume "all women are like that" until one desires him enough to show him that is not the case… and break with the sisterhood,"

          Okay. That's your choice. But have you ever heard of self-fulfilling prophecies?

          Why not stop seeing yourself as a loser or someone who is part of an "underclass" and start valuing yourself and those around you (whether women or men)?

          I value the good men in my life, thank you — quite apart from friends, my partner, my father, and my brothers, there are many men (as well as women) I respect and admire. I do not see relationships (whether romantic/sexual or not) as transactions.

          By all means, criticize mainstream Western gender politics all you want. I think they're pretty messed up too and I despise both Cosmopolitan and The Game. But don't expect all women (or men) to conform to these harmful stereotypes.

          There is no female conspiracy out to "get" you, P Ray. There is no "evil sisterhood". That is just a convenient excuse. In this world we're all just trying to get by. It's not all about you or your suffering. It might be good to try to get some perspective.

          Honestly, I don't know why I even bother. You're just going to counter with some Cosmo-stereotypes and comments about women wanting subservience from their downtrodden spouse, then say "sisterhood is powerful" and go "Ahahahahahaha". Hardly the cornerstone of a fruitful discussion.

          I hope that someday you will meet a woman (other than the one who gave you life) that you can bring yourself to love. Or even like.

        • Men can get on the treadmill of being what most women want them to be and dealing with all the stresses of that,

          or they can do what makes them feel good and carry on in some level of peace (while needling feminists, what fun).

          You want a man to share your life with? Be the kind of woman he wants to be around.

          Of course, make sure you choose right.

          It’s funny that the women complaining that all men are bastards, are precisely the kind of women who picked that bastard. And if you have never given a talking to to a female friend stringing nice men along… you are part of the problem.

          The longer the “men who are not wanted” are shunned…
          the less they miss what women have to offer.
          and the less the women looking for a fallback guy will succeed.
          Frankly, when over half of marriages end in divorce, it’s a mystery as to what women offer.

          If you take offence at that, you might want to examine what type of woman you are.

        • “You want a man to share your life with? Be the kind of woman he wants to be around.”

          Of course. The same goes for men or indeed anyone wanting a partner. A better advise might be: Be your best self. Then you will attract the right people, whether friends or partners.

          “It’s funny that the women complaining that all men are bastards, are precisely the kind of women who picked that bastard.”

          As I predicted, you are doing it again. Rather than actually addressing any of the things I’ve written, you’re reiterating tired stereotypes and putting words in my mouth. I never said “all men are bastards”. I don’t believe that. I never believed that. I’m not with a bastard at the moment, and I certainly don’t “string men along”.

          “If you take offence at that, you might want to examine what type of woman you are.”

          Again, you’ve just lost me. You persist in ignoring my points and insulting me instead. Anyway, you’ve achieved what you probably wanted, which is to get me to leave this blog. Enjoy your safe space on the Internet, gentlemen. It’s a whole, wide, scary world out there…

        • You are always free to return with stories of how you have helped good men avoid nasty women and be with good women.

          You have a wonderful opportunity now to prove that not all women are like that, and I hope you make the most of your circumstances. Remember, “sisterhood is powerful!”

          And remember, at least us omega virgins are not contributing to broken families or mentally insane men and women.

          If you think our attitude is a problem, maybe you should have a look at the attitude of the players, playettes or users.

          Before you start getting worked up (or even get patronisingly defensive, or say I am attributing things to you that you never said, e.g “It’s funny that the women complaining that all men are bastards, are precisely the kind of women who picked that bastard.” — I never said you said that. You responded. Guilty?) try and remember that fact.

  2. Howdy! I have just discovered your blog for the very first time, because somebody (maybe a commenter?) linked to me, and it showed up in my web stats.

    So. . . I am verrrrry intrigued by what I find here. And although I haven’t read much yet, I plan to spend some time and study your posts quite thoroughly.

    But already, one thing is clear: you are no friend of feminism. And that makes you a foe of my foe. ;)

    You may find it worth your while to read the following article which I wrote almost 4 years ago. (Clearly, I was ahead of the times!):

    http://tinyurl.com/5lgmko

    At the time I posted this (Oct 2006) I had never heard the term PUA; in fact, PUA-ism was still in its infancy compared to where it is now, and most old-guard MRAs knew nothing of it. So, my thoughts in the article were coming from a place that was entirely “unpolluted” by PUA discourse in any form. It was pure “MRA-think”.

    As for the PUA thang, well, I have mixed feelings about it. . .

    Anyhow, I will be looking into your blog, and adding you to my bookmarks. . .

    ~Fidelbogen~

    http://counterfem.blogspot.com

    • Game/PUA crap is no help to MRAs. They show up and effectively say that they have an answer that is something other than doing the real work of fighting back to regain our freedom. While guys are diddling around with PUA crap we lose more and more of our freedom.

  3. Hi White and Nerdy,

    I’ve seen various ‘adult male virgin’ blogs popping up from time-to-time, as well read accounts from other people in that category.

    Listen, I think focusing on things that are in the past is pointless, and it only depresses people more. My advice to adult male virgins would be to completely ignore the fact you’re a virgin – don’t dwell on it – lie about it if asked – just bullshit your arse off. Same deal with age. Ignore your age and don’t give it if asked. Just bullshit if pressed.

    It is just the case that adult male virgins had a bit of bad luck in life and suffer a bit from social anxiety. Doesn’t mean a thing. I think the only solution is to try doing the opposite of what you’ve been doing so far and do something that forces you to be social and interact with lots of people. Again, totally ignore the past, just bullshit about age and sexual status and focus on the future. It’s never too late, my Dad is like 75 and has a hot girl-friend in her 20s, there was a good humorous thread on ‘Citizen Renegade’ about old players , even if you were 100 it makes no difference.

    Forget the virginity thing, forget the age thing, forget the past and throw yourself into social situations in the future. I guess I should probably take my own advice. lol

    Cheers!

    • Hardly anyone (outside of the internet) knows I’m a virgin. The only ones who know are friends who are all in the same boat or effectively so (guys who went to hookers or got a miracle once but are otherwise like me) and maybe my parents. I lie if even asked. I get asked rarely since I’m old enough to be in the must not be a virgin because I am as old as I am.

      I can’t ignore the fact that I’m a virgin over 30. It colors everything having to do with women. It’s there every time a woman accuses me of sexual harassment. It’s there in the way women interact with me or really don’t interact with me.

      Telling me that your 75 year old dad has a hot 25 year old girlfriend is meaningless unless he was a 30 year old virgin.

      More importantly don’t I deserve justice for what women have done to me? Not the mention all the other men who have been victims of women. They must pay for what they did.

      • I discourage you from taking any anxious cowardly action to your past.

        FACE IT.

        When people ask you if you have fucked or not – be sure to tell them THE TRUTH. And say it loudly and smile.

        Let them feel the burn of your abstinence. Have compassion for them. Do not lie.

        Just learn to get over the fact that society rejects you because you have not been intimate with a female.

        If in a society the natural born state of a male is something to be ashamed of there is something wrong with that society and those people. They must hate themselves.

        I wouldn’t recommend hating yourself. Let other people hate you, but don’t hate yourself.

        Be true to yourself, most people cannot do this, because they are weak and needy. Nothing wrong with being weak and needy…

        But you great opportunity here to expand beyond the mediocre which most people fit into. Don’t miss it.

        • A good line I’ve trotted out in the past is…
          You hate me because you can’t go back to being like me.
          And I have the responsibility to ensure both me and my family (whether current or future) stay healthy and disease-free… :)

  4. “(There is no such thing as a woman in the sexless underclass).”

    I’m a woman, I’m 32 years old, my first kiss was at age 30, and I’ve never managed to keep a guy interested beyond the 3rd date.

    • I feel for you Leslie because you are experiencing what many men are experiencing and some women are going through. It’s unfair, but as a result of the nature of male and female brains, there will always be both males and females that will be chucked aside due to not simply fitting into the ideal physical or mental image of the majority.

      I hope W&N realizes that there are women that are sexually deprived as well as a result of physical unattractiveness and/or social awkwardness. While it is true that there are more men in the sexless underclass than women as a result of women having men approach them and hypergamy. The reality is that there still are women out there that are sexually deprived and this fact cannot be ignored.

      • “I feel for you Leslie…The reality is that there still are women out there that are sexually deprived and this fact cannot be ignored.”

        Thanks for not pretending that women like me don’t even exist!

        “It’s unfair,”

        Yeah, it feels unfair, and then I remind myself that the alternative is *rape* which is a million times less fair. If nobody wants to have sex with me, then the alternative to me not having sex is me having sex with someone *against his will*. Nobody deserves that! Also, having sex when one doesn’t want to is a lot more painful than not having sex when one does want to.

      • “The reality is that there still are women out there that are sexually deprived and this fact cannot be ignored.”

        I’m so glad that you’re not one of the people who ignores that fact.

        When the people who *do* ignore women like me say women should depend on the men who have sex with them instead of trying to get other jobs (and accuse us of “competing” with men if we do train for and apply for those jobs), what do they expect women like me to do? Depend on our fathers and brothers for the rest of their lives? Resort to the lowest ranks of prostitution, painfully get fucked by guys who think we’re too ugly to handle gently, and die of AIDS? Go on welfare? Curl up on the streets and die?

        • Leslie,

          I also acknowledged the existence of sexually-deprived women earlier on this blog.

          To be more constructive, do you have any concept as to what has been preventing you from having consensual, loving sex with men? I am assuming the reason is not physical, since you did go on dates with men. Plus, as W&N (to his credit) correctly pointed out – despite us men’s superficiality, physical attractiveness is actually not as important to many of us (at least not to the extent to prevent sex) as many women would think.

  5. “To be more constructive, do you have any concept as to what has been preventing you from having consensual, loving sex with men? I am assuming the reason is not physical, since you did go on dates with men. Plus, as W&N (to his credit) correctly pointed out – despite us men’s superficiality, physical attractiveness is actually not as important to many of us (at least not to the extent to prevent sex) as many women would think.”

    1) I’m shy – I’ve asked out guys and approached many on online dating services in my 20s, but I’ve always been too shy to do that *well*. Also, at this age it’s now *frightening* too which makes the shyness worse – when approaching my male counterparts, men who are as sexually inexperienced as myself, how do I steer clear of the fraction who hate me because they want revenge against all women and the fraction who don’t want me to survive because they don’t want women applying for jobs besides hooker or housewife?

    2) I’m apparently barely physically attractive enough to touch (my first kiss was at age 30, years after my first date). BTW, it’s not superficial of men (and not superficial of women either) to consider physical attractiveness when deciding if you want to get physical with someone.

    3) How important is physical attractiveness to just having sex with someone, and how important is physical attractiveness to having sex with her gently instead of hurting her, respecting the next morning, and not joking with his buddies about how ugly she turned out to be when naked? I don’t look forward to staying a virgin but ending up torn and bleeding (which could happen even after breaking my hymen during masturbation), dumped the morning after, and publicly ridiculed after settling for a guy who puts me in the “I’d hit it but I wouldn’t talk to it in public” category is a fate worse than virginity.

    • Hey Leslie,

      Sorry it took a while for me to get back to you. Here are my responses:

      (1) Shyness unduly burdens men, not women, since society expects men to make the first move in a courtship. The second half of your post reeks of paranoia. It’s like the daydreamers thinking to himself, “geez, that girl’s smokin’, but wait, what if she’s attracted to me? Isn’t she going to come running after me? Would she force me into a marriage? I don’t wanna marry yet . . . ” There are many sweet-natured men who are single because they are, well, shy, not because they are hateful and reeks of hatefulness. Does that make sense to you? BTW – the most sociopathic men also often happen to be quite charming.

      (2) Judge your looks yourself and don’t judge it based on other’s behavior. Honestly. When you look into the mirror, are you repulsed by yourself? Are you grotesquely overweight? Don’t based your judgment on what others do around you.

      (3) Again, this is paranoia. To quote that movie Black Swan, you need to live a little. I know this is cliche but how will you ever even have a relationship if you’re constantly worrying about the downside of being in one? How will you ever have great sex if you refuse to even have sex?

      • “Sorry it took a while for me to get back to you. Here are my responses:”

        Thanks for responding, and no need to apologize for the time you took!

        “(1) Shyness unduly burdens men, not women”

        True that it’s not the same burden for each shy person, but don’t forget that shyness makes it harder to make *friends* too, not just harder to date.

        “(2) Judge your looks yourself and don’t judge it based on other’s behavior. Honestly. When you look into the mirror, are you repulsed by yourself? Are you grotesquely overweight? Don’t based your judgment on what others do around you.”

        Thanks, and I actually can accept myself in the mirror. At the same time, if I want other people to care what I think then of course I have to care what they think too – that’s only fair.

        “(3) Again, this is paranoia. To quote that movie Black Swan, you need to live a little. I know this is cliche but how will you ever even have a relationship if you’re constantly worrying about the downside of being in one? How will you ever have great sex if you refuse to even have sex?”

        Now *this* is a very callous response to “I don’t look forward to staying a virgin but ending up torn and bleeding (which could happen even after breaking my hymen during masturbation), dumped the morning after, and publicly ridiculed after settling for a guy who puts me in the “I’d hit it but I wouldn’t talk to it in public” category is a fate worse than virginity.”

        It’s not *paranoia* to want to avoid ending up torn and bleeding!

        • How was I callous? How about I reframe the issue for you.

          (1) It is not paranoia to want to avoid ending up being killed by a crackhead looking for crack money.

          (2) I don’t look forward to not live but ending up having a bullet planted at the back of my head by a crackhead is a fate worse than not living.

          (3) Therefore I should stop living/therefore it is better for me to have never been born.

          You see how ridiculous this is, right? Of course there is a chance you’ll meet someone terrible. But you know what? That is life. Period. If you can’t accept that fact with serenity you’re born into the wrong world.

        • Actually, I’d say your biggest problem is an apparently highly distorted view of sex. Yes it hurts the first time for women, but it’s not like TORTURE for crying out loud, and in at least 3 separate posts here you refer to how painful sex is. It’s enough to make one wonder if you were raised by nuns trying to terrify you. Your issue might not be that you’re shy or unattractive, but that you seem so scared of and uncomfortable with your sexuality that you come off as frigid and guys don’t try to make a move figuring you’re not interested or will shoot them down.

      • Dude, what the hell? You are callous, just like the average person that doesn’t understand, and has to demonize virgins. You create a facade of tolerance, but then you have to go and look for reasons they’re wrong, reasons they somehow deserve it, are stupid, mistaken, etc. It’s just victim blaming.

        Losing your virginity at 30 is not like losing it at 17, ok? Everyone cries about their latest relationship woes, and you have the audacity to say this shit, because you can’t face the harsh reality. If you had any idea what it’s like to wait such a long time to feel right about someone, and then giving up and just hoping that your first time can at least be special.. and not at the service of some sexually spoiled persons ego. I would rather be beaten bloody. 100 times.

        And to think that with so many virgins, it’s all because they refused to be selfish and inconsiderate, and have faith that if they wait to feel right about someone, someone else out there will be waiting for someone THEY feel right about. They could’ve done it in high school, and with someone inexperienced. But that’s long gone. That we’re born in the wrong world, you got that one right. Because this world is full of sexed-up people who are too busy accusing the virgins of not actually being considerate, so they can feel more justified. It seems their consideration is so low that they can’t even feign it, and rather just don’t want to be wrong. Forget that they already have the majority on their side.

        She values sex as something meaningful, and no guy is refusing to go past three dates with her, how is that refusing to be in a relationship, and why in the fuck should she have sex if they’re not even willing to go farther than that? Of course you will never know any trouble that begins to compare with what it would be like to value sex as a dedication, and lose your virginity at an old age, after all that waiting and waiting, hoping and despairing, and have it be not only be completely meaningless, but in the service of a whores ego, (as if they are entitled to and deserve the virgins one tiny shred TO BEGIN WITH after taking whatever they can get their whole life), and the degradation of yourself, for giving a shit.. And not living for yourself so you can ensure the world remains as shitty a place as possible for everyone else. Try to step in some shoes and care instead of proving someone wrong just because you don’t want to be wrong yourself.

        • RIGHT ON, BEN! THANK YOU!

          The reframing of my situation as

          “(1) It is not paranoia to want to avoid ending up being killed by a crackhead looking for crack money.
          “(2) I don’t look forward to not live but ending up having a bullet planted at the back of my head by a crackhead is a fate worse than not living.
          “(3) Therefore I should stop living/therefore it is better for me to have never been born.”

          is hugely off-base. A much more accurate reframing would be

          (1) It is not paranoia to want to avoid ending up being killed by a crackhead looking for crack money.
          (2) I don’t look forward to keeping away from half the neighborhoods in my city (which *still* won’t *completely protect* me from having a bullet in my head but will *reduce the odds* of having a bullet planted in my head) but ending up having a bullet planted at the back of my head by a crackhead is a fate worse than keeping out of half the neighborhoods in my city.
          (3) Therefore it is better for me to keep out of half the neighborhoods in my city.

          Staying a virgin is a million times more like keeping out of half the neighborhoods in my city than like stopping living altogether.

          “…If you had any idea what it’s like to wait such a long time to feel right about someone…”

          …and to wait such a long time to feel *safe* about someone *and* feel *confident that I can make him feel comfortable too*.

          It’s *not* just like someone [let's call this one A] waiting such a long time to have any someone else cave in [let's call whoever might eventually cave in B] and let A pound B on the inside without expecting any pleasure for B or even empathy from A out of it…

          ” and then giving up and just hoping that your first time can at least be special.. and not at the service of some sexually spoiled persons ego. I would rather be beaten bloody. 100 times…”

          …Or hoping my first time can at least be painless! I would rather be beaten bloody on my arm or leg than beaten bloody inside my vagina or anus.

          “…how is that refusing to be in a relationship, and why in the fuck should she have sex if they’re not even willing to go farther than that?…”

          EXACTLY!

          Why in the fuck should *anyone* have sex if his or her potential partner isn’t even willing to go as far as he or she wants to before feeling comfortable having sex?

  6. I am 32 and virgin, but I’m not sure I understand your goal. Yes, it’s not good to be single. Yes, it’s not good to be rejected. I’m sure I would agree with many other points you have. But I’m not sure that virginity is a cause rather than an effect. So far, I consider my virginity as an effect of several variables, not necessarily all bad ones. To me, sex is part (albetit essential one) of the bigger package that includes marriage and kids, and I want the entire package rather than merely a part of it. In short, I could be virgin because so far women don’t seem to want to marry me for one reason or another. But I don’t think women reject me because of my virginity. And I don’t see any other instanses where my virgnity would make me social outcast. After all, how does the society know whether or not I ever had access to woman’s inside.

  7. This is the exact propulsion I needed to prevent myself from indentured servitude. I shall be a slave to my hedonistic ways! And unlimited sex is in the equation.

  8. There is a whole world of women outside the mainstream culture. Unfortunately most are religious, but occasionally you can find someone who was raised non-mainstream and left, but didn’t lose any of the values. I guess I’m one of them. I’m frankly horrified by most women I meet. They complain about how terrible Alphas are and then slut it up with them anyway. I don’t have many female friends. My first boyfriend was an older virgin and I later married a really nerdy guy that other women didn’t treat very well. I sometimes wish I could marry more than one of the great nerdy guys I know. I hope they don’t end up angry like this website…I try to encourage them to improve themselves, do Crossfit and eat paleo, but I am at a loss for women to introduce them to. My close female friends are all nerd-daters, but all taken already.

    • Not only are they religious but those women are in isolated religious sects where they get married at 18. Even if I could get into one of those religions (and I can’t since I wasn’t born into it) I would have no access to those women.

      Why shouldn’t I be angry? There would be something wrong if I wasn’t angry.

      What’s the point of improvement (assuming it’s even improvement and not a total waste of time) if there’s no benefit at the end? Like you said there’s so few good women out there.

    • Why shouldn’t men be angry? Anger is a legitimate response to injustice.
      Unless you would prefer to have deceitful men in your life.
      But here’s a question for you, Kate:
      Did you decide to have the “nerd” in your life, and sexually, only when all your other choices were exhausted, or was he your first pick?
      Because being with a good man after spending so many years with bad men only reinforces how lowly you think of the good man, as you don’t think he’s worth waiting for.
      Saying that you don’t want “angry men” ignores the fact that there are plenty of women in relationships with “angry men”, except that they’re the”angry men that the women are attracted to”.
      So you’re basically saying, men who aren’t attached have no reason to be angry at all? Or are you saying that men should be grateful for being treated as sub-human(only accepted if they contribute money without question, to the welfare of those who couldn’t care less whether they live or die), if they don’t meet some mysterious variable female criteria?

      • I think you need to re-read kate’s post. She described herself as valuing prudency, not ever wanting or respecting alpha males, and when she did go for someone, it was the less experienced first.

        • The “less experienced” first.
          But that relationship didn’t work out.
          So even if she is going for someone after that… sorry to say but her ability to genuinely bond has been affected.
          That’s a reason why past their first sexual encounter in a relationship, it becomes much harder for subsequent ones to last. The strength of the bond is massively weakened.
          So whoever chooses to go out with them has to try many times more to build up to that level of commitment.
          You can see that those with a sexual past have a much harder time holding on to their relationships.

  9. I struggle with this stuff a lot myself. I am not a virgin now. I got weak and had sex at 22, and then at the end of 24 found a girl who, aside from a rape, was very old and had never had sex (if you would call that sex), so I managed to get the start I always felt I needed. For all self-related purposes, this stuff is not my problem.

    But it doesn’t stop the daily brooding I have with this shit, because I know there is and will always be those people out there. I can’t believe how oblivious and insensitive people are about the plight of the virgin, all the while whining about stuff I can’t fathom compares. I can’t get over the fact that in being prudent, something you get treated sub-human or at least like an alien for, not only do you get to miss out on super-hyped-up life experiences (which we get barraged with by TV, Movies, etc. all day) like high school sweethearts, dates, kisses, youthful relationships and sex, and the experience of losing your virginity to a virgin, but you risk being alone for your whole life – unless you’re willing to settle for being with someone who’s been fucking and giving themselves away their whole life, and will most assuredly act entitled to the sex they’ve had and talk about it. At least if they cheated on you, instead of not waiting for you, you’d get to have your first time with someone who is experiencing it with you, and they probably wouldn’t act so much like they’re just “supposed” to be having that sex.

    I have also reached the conclusion about males-asking-females out, and how it plays against reserved or shy guys.

    However, I’m not sure about the ratio of male to female virgins –

    First of all, this is the internet. I’ve totaled up different age groups of males on dating websites, and found the ratio to be, if I recall correctly, about 2:1, perhaps higher. On youtube, I have hundreds of thousands of views on my channel, and in my statistics, males are much, much more common. If you’re judging who you meet on the internet, you’re skewing things. The fact that a very comparable amount of inexperienced girls have chipped in on this page alone should say something about that.

    Second –
    When I started feeling like I was gonna be alone my whole life because of my inexperience causing me to be unable to cope with experienced people’s (read – inconsiderate conformists) pasts, and the sheer rarity of those who are like me, I forced myself to start making friends (normally I don’t want much to do with most people (obviously I can’t stand the common persons views on sex and their priorities and interests)), in person and online, and a little bit of dating. As such I made a lot of friends in person. A lot lot. Further, the amount of friends I have who are male vs female is pretty dern even. When I sit and total up those I know of who are either virgin at an older age, or rather inexperienced, I come up with a surprisingly higher number (than society wants anyone to believe) and it’s even, gender wise. In fact, last time I checked, girls were actually higher.

    If you don’t know a lot of people, or only know a lot online, and don’t have an array of published, reliable studies, I wouldn’t be so quick to conclude.

    That said, it sucks tremendously at any rate, but I have this advise to give to a lot of the people here: (despite the ridiculousness of me, a consistently depressed person, giving advice)

    I have been pretty severely shy at times. I attribute it to my disinterest in people, however. When I see someone who is quiet, nerdy, alone, it’s a much different situation. Nevertheless this has resulted in enough isolation to make me physically tremble when people are looking at me, at a few points in my life. I brood a lot and don’t talk around the common breed of people. This means nothing in making friends though, when I resolved to do so. it only had to do with whether I would pursue those friendships. Making the first friend is the hardest part, after you make a few, you become friends with their friends, etc. I don’t know about anyone else, but people saw my shyness and they responded to it with compassion. One thing I have nary been shy about was admitting I was a virgin, after all, why should I be shamed for being strong? And trust me, this goes a long way with a lot of girls, in being your friend. (well, at least if you’re not immediately using it to judge their weaknesses, can’t speak on that.) It was a great learning experience and study to make friends with so many people, but I don’t think I’d ever do it again. Being around a fair amount of those people that aren’t much like me takes a huge toll on my sanity, but I did find a gem or two, and I’ll value those friends for the rest of my life.

    Second, it’s not as ridiculously hopeless as it seems, but you have to understand that if you’re not the average person that is already terrified about missing out when you’re only in high school, or even middle school, and compromises yourself immediately, if you’re not one of those people – finding someone right for you is like finding a job, it just won’t happen without a lot of work. My best advice is to sign up for a lot of dating and social networking sites. The non-paying or trial kinds, don’t waste your money. At the end of my search I had something like a dozen. State in your profile what you would want to hear in your ideal someone else’s, and for god’s sake, get a decent camera, and take good pictures of yourself in quality lighting. If you’re physically lacking, work out a bit, etc. I’m telling you this can be done. You will have to wade through a lot of crap profiles, and don’t make the mistake of messaging a ton of people, it takes it’s toll as well. But spend your time looking every day and perfecting your profiles, because there are people out there that are just like you and doing the same, and it only takes time to find them. It may take a few years, but so does finding a good career. That’s how I found the girl I described above, and I was very interested in her even before I found how inexperienced she was. I couldn’t believe it. It happened. She’s the only girl I ever said the words “I’m in love with you” to. It took me like, 3.5 years..? of dating websites, but keep in mind those websites have exploded the past year or two, back in 2006 they were still so very barren. I ate healthy, worked out hard (at home, not in a gym) (although I admit I was never bad looking or bad eating to begin with), I took professional pictures of myself, show off my talents, and I would come home from work and sit for like an hour or more every day for months at a time looking through profiles. Eventually it became habit, practically a hobby. If you keep at it, you’ll get to that point. And if you get to that point, you’ll keep at it – and you will find someone right for you, as impossibly rare as those people sometimes seem to be.

    I’d write more, but dammit I need to sleep, so maybe later. You’re not alone. Take care.

  10. I see nothing wrong with virgin men or women. I support you if it is your choice. It is mine as well. What’s up with the misogyny? I believe that intelligent and capable men and women benefit society, not the loudest and most promiscuous. Yes, I am also a liberal.

    Our government is far from feminist. Perhaps you’re misunderstanding feminism. I support the right of all people obtaining social and economic equality.

    I’ve also heard women complain about there being few “good men”. It depends upon your definition of good. It’s difficult for me to find a man that is educated who has zero interest in starting a family. An educated, compassionate and intelligent individual who does not want to create children is my definition of a good man.

    • It’s not a choice in my case which is why the attacks I get for my virginity from women and manginas all the more evil. I’m not a misogynist. I just a man fighting for my freedom. And yes our government is very feminist. I understand feminism all too well. I understand how it’s the ideology of female supremacism.

    • Our government is far from feminist?

      Do you know how many branches of government are dedicated to women? UN panels, University Departments, National Committees, State Organizations, private clubs, retail stores, economic sectors.

      Just about all of it.

      You know how much is dedicated to men?

      Just about none of it.

      So by what reasonable argument do you base your statement “Our Government is far from feminist?”

      Sounds pretty sentimental to me and irrational.

  11. Hell yah!

    28 year old male virgin here, and proud.

    Society has issues with male virginity, mostly because most men are little squeaky mommies boys who can’t live without the pussy!

    • Also the fact that men have standards, and many women nowadays don’t meet them (and these standards, are mostly and simply relating to polite, reasonable attitude and behaviour…) so it’s harder for them to shop for that lifetime indentured servitude through a man… and is another reason why the women are angry.

      After all, for many of them their thinking is:
      “My presence is my gift to you!”

        • I find it pitiable these little name and rank ladder games males instinctually play with each other… not aware how this lowly behavior is used to exploit them.

          Male Virgins are often those who have opted out of these demeaning qualities of humanity, which IMHO are in fact powered by the female.

          IMHO if you play that game you are a fool, even if you win.

        • IMHO if you play that game you are a fool, even if you win.

          Exactamundo. It’s a pyrhic victory

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory
          A Pyrrhic victory (/ˈpɪrɪk/) is a victory with devastating cost to the victor

          This reminds me btw, I’d use the same term to describe game as well. The “game” method to getting “some” from women, be it sex, love, or attention always leads to pyrrhic victory.

        • I wasn’t trying to be mean, just making an a priori observation that I’d know you’re a male virgin by the handle you chose without your own admission. No need to get defensive.

          If you had glanced at my blog, you’d see that I have a strong distaste for PUA/game bullshit.

          I am not a virgin but I guess I can relate with being an omega at times.

        • To elaborate, the allusion to scientific equipment implies geekiness, and ‘majesty’ implies unwarranted self-importance. Some equally virginal names might be: AlgebraicRoyalty, DynamicalSystemGod, TopologyPrince, etc etc (I am a math major).

          I don’t know if you want to be singled out as a male virgin anywhere you use that handle, but if that’s what you’re going for, you are succeeding at it.

  12. There is no such thing as a “male virgin”. Virgin by definition is a woman who has not engaged in sex.

    The ideology of Feminism has expanded the term “virgin” to also mean men who have no sexual experience, part of the female supremacist’s effort to demean and denigrate males.

    A man’s worth is not measured by how many sexual partners he has had. He is measured by money, status, and power.

    By contrast, a woman’s worth is measured by fitness, virginity, and fidelity. Obviously Feminism has relieved women from adhering to those qualities but insist that men must stick to theirs.

    If you want to have a positive and meaningful relationship with a woman, ideally you should be stronger, taller, older, richer, and smarter than her. Then you can play the role of protector and provider and she can play the role of carer and nurturer.

    I do not have any advice on how to secure a woman, but please make sure that the three qualities and the five conditions are met before you even attempt to secure a woman. After you’ve secured a woman, do not openly show her in front of other men or let her openly mingle with other men, lest you be cuckolded.

    This is the recipe for a functional and lasting marriage. I’m not sure how you can do this in the age of Feminism, but you must reject sluts and whores as potential partners even if you’ve climbed up to the upper echelons of society. They are only good for one thing – SEX.

    • One of the big reasons why there is an abundance of this “man-up” = “marriage to a woman who’s not going to appreciate you” talk,
      is because players and the women who love them …
      want someone to clean up their mess.

      They want to hold good guys responsible for the consequences of their own decisions.
      They want to have the kid by the badboy … but have the nice guy to pay for it.

  13. Let me give some clarification on the “male virgin” issue.

    Under Feminist doctrine, all men are natural-born perverts. A man who has not had sex before is henceforth an anomaly in the eyes of Feminism. That’s why he has to be ridiculed to oblivion.

    Once they’ve pressured you into having sex, then they can shout: “All men are perverts!” It’s a case of damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

    • Most women want to have the moral high ground in every relationship.
      It justifies them staying “because he can be fixed!”
      and it justifies them leaving “he’s horrible!”

      Basically, the having sex bit as leverage … segues into another damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

    • This doesn’t make sense, and the proof is in the fact that everybody, feminist or not, can and often do ridicule the virgins. If the simplest explanation tends to be the right one, people ridicule virgins because it’s something outside of their sphere of experience, something different that they can’t understand. What I mean is, like the man who lives in a redneck town and has never seen a black man. When he does, he’s scared and prejudiced about him. Even a dog mimics this kind of nature. Another reason that plays a role is probably victim-blaming, in that no one likes the idea of not having sex over having sex, and so comforts themselves by blaming the “victim” (virgin) as in some way at fault and deserving of it. (as this is how victim-blaming works) Granted, there are a lot of so-called “feminists” who, in their so-called progressive, “radical” thinking, are suspicious of any virgin being religious, which of course to them translates to sexist. Make sense?

      • When you mention “virgin”, I take it that you mean men who has not had sex before. It seems that you don’t think that Feminist dogma has anything to do with the redefinition of the term “virgin” to include celibate males in order to ridicule men who do not fit the Feminist worldview.

        If you don’t know already, let me state this very clearly. Just like Communism is China’s state ideology, Feminism is America’s (and other Western countries’) state ideology. Every child in the Western world is indoctrinated with Feminist ideology from the day they were born, of course unless they come from an isolated conservative community.

        The reason people make fun of celibate males is because they were brainwashed with Feminism since childhood, even if they do not identify themselves as Feminists.

        You will always be a Feminist as long as you believe sluts should be allowed to get married.

        • Ok, do you really think people didn’t make fun of virgins with the same attitude they do today, 1000 years ago, or in any of many disparate cultures?

          And what the hell, where at all did I say anything about whether I think sluts should be allowed to get married? I should mention I think whores should only be with whores and anything else is dehumanizing to the prudent people.

          The desire to be virgin – yes, virgin, and be virgin with my partner is something I’ve felt since I was a little kid, not as some sort of clear indoctrination, but as a deeply sentimental, romantic sort of thing, and as such, male virginity is completely relevant.

          If you’re going to be both virgin supporting, and anti-feminist, (feminism being the notion of fundamental equality between the sexes – not what people make of feminism) I’d rather you not raise your voice about both topics in the same place, because I’ve heard plenty enough already from “feminists” trying to associate anyone who criticizes whores as being sexist, rape enabling, etc.

        • Oh, as an addition to that – I wasn’t trying to avoid being called feminist. I am feminist, insomuch as the notion of fundamental equality between the sexes, and when I use words like “whore” and “slut” I refer to both sexes with no regard for people who find it funny for a guy to be called “slut”

          Again, virginity is something I have a very real value for, as a man, even extending it to not wanting to get to non-sexually romantically involved with someone who’s not the one for me. And my disgust for men who are whores is also very, very real, and I can’t begin to explain the depths of it here unless I mean to write an essay.

      • Ben, your brainwashing goes deep if you believe that “virgins are outside people’s sphere of experience”.

        a) The actual stats are that a very size-able part of the population are middle-aged virgins, and a huge portion lose their virginity later than hollywood would have you believe

        b) contrary to TV reality, most people are not getting laid left and right, in fact studies are finding increasing levels of celibacy and virginity (it’s growing, not shrinking)

        http://aleknovy.com/2011/05/06/resources-for-mucious-scaevola/

        So Albert was correct. Mocking virgins is something done out of a matriarchal code, and you Ben have fallen for it.

        Heck, that code is so strong, that even celibate guys, go online and mock, shame and ridicule other celibate guys (these people are called “game blogers”).

        • From the studies I quoted. About 12% of men ADMIT to finishing university as virgins, and that’s with a ton of men refusing to answer the question in the study.

          So it’s not this rare deformity or disorder that you make it out to be. Further, of those who are not virgins, most have only had 1 long-term partner (not getting laid left and right).

          So most people are celibate. In fact, on an average university year, 42.8% of males have NO sexual intercourse. Meaning, most guys either luck into a crummy relationship and lose their virginity that way, or barely luck their way into having sex ONCE before finishing university.

          The basic pattern for MOST guys is:

          -> Finish high school as a virgin (70% do)
          -> Sign up for university and have no sex most of the time, and then luck into one crummy relationship or one time sex (on average year 42.8% of males are having 0 sexual partners)
          -> And even then, by the end of university, 12% still admit to being virgins (not taking into account the non-responders)

        • I am aware of virgin statistics, but the majority still has had sex and lives in this holywood-defined world they see on TV. Even when they haven’t, they still often see themselves as a complete freak and keep quiet about it, and sometimes even ridicule other virgins in profound, insecure conformity.

          From this you make a leap “so Albert was correct”. Bullshit, your explanation for virgin mockery is contorted and contrived, and doesn’t even really make sense. Understanding of psychology – human self esteem, low self-esteem and it’s relation to egotism, egotism and it’s relation to sex, insecurity & inadequacy and their relation to sex, ego, & conformity, etc, all goes to show quite clearly, simply and logically why people shame virginity. Your hypothesis, however, offers a bizzare explanation, and has holes in it, as I described – do you really think people didn’t shame virginity just the same way in many different cultures throughout human history? To say contrary flies in the face of human psychology, and the fact that people have been the same psychological creatures for thousands of years…. It’s like when people get this notion that the current sexual habits are something new, that there’s been some sort of sexual revolution, and prudency is old fashioned. It’s just ridiculous, people have always been whores.

        • And don’t you dare describe me as calling virginity a “deformity or disorder”. Prudency is basically my number one criterion for judging people as someone I want to know and be friends with. You cannot escape that society often feels this way about it, however – a deformity. Again, a result of issues of low self-esteem people have – why they would shame virginity. It’s so obvious! How can you deny this? Ghetto idiot boy likes to act gangster to hide his insecurities and inadequacies. Same with sex.

        • Even when they haven’t, they still often see themselves as a complete freak and keep quiet about it, and sometimes even ridicule other virgins in profound, insecure conformity.

          So why the fuck are you perpetuating that cycle and rationalizing it away and making excuses for it?

          So you:

          A) Admit that society makes men feel like shit so that they go crazy about begging pussy in order to not feel inadequate

          and then you

          B) Make excuses for this perverted dynamic

          Understanding of psychology – human self esteem, low self-esteem and it’s relation to egotism, egotism and it’s relation to sex, insecurity & inadequacy and their relation to sex, ego, & conformity, etc, all goes to show quite clearly, simply and logically why people shame virginity.

          Dude, I’m a sociologist and going towards a post as a social psychologist. Who do heck do you think you’re fooling with that psycho-babble. You just inserted and strung a bunch of terms you don’t even understand, you just strung them together randomly.

          Your hypothesis, however, offers a bizzare explanation, and has holes in it, as I described

          What hypothesis doofus. I offered no hypothesis.

          As you described what? You just strung along “fancy-sounding words”. I bet you ussually get away with it too in front of illiterate people.

          do you really think people didn’t shame virginity just the same way in many different cultures throughout human history

          I know so as a matter of a fact. It was fucking invented about 20-30 years ago in north america from what I can gather.

          Most cultures in the world still are nowhere near it. Heck, even where I live (eastern europe) it’s almost non-existent compared to the usa. We (the rest of the world) are catching up. Shaming and mocking guys for not being playas is being imported into our part of the world too, with a little lag, like 10 year lag, but it’s happening.

          Ask your grandpa if it happened in his age. Watch an indian movie or a chinese movie and find “american pie” type scenes where a guy is mocked for being a virgin or not getting laid enough.

          It doesn’t exist. American culture invented it you ignorant buffoon. Stop desperately defending this life-murdering tactic

  14. A big ego = low self-esteem, this is absolutely so as well as the other things. They were not “randomly strung together” and you are saying that the former posters argument is true, thus I call it your hypothesis. Your ideas are crazy, and you are nuts. I’ve read autobiographies from the 1900′s, and I’ve seen the virgin shaming and whoring that was ever-present. The final nail in the coffin of your insanity is your final comment that I am defending this “life-murdering tactic”

    • Your remind me of my parents. You live in a fantasy world where you glaze over the past and idealize it, while damning the present. It’s like when my mom walked out on the re-release of a movies that she loved as a kid, because the sexual content was too much. Or my dad who, upon seeing a modern James Bond movie and infuriated by a risque scene, argued that James Bond was never a player and never had risque moments or gamed on random women in his older movies. (how stupid is that) People have always been the same stupid fucking assholes and whores and you contort and are blind to what is there, to fit in with your whole ideology about feminism.

      • Lastly, don’t ever try to use a degree as some sort of certification of intelligence or truth to yourself. It means precisely nothing, and it’s downright cliche how often I hear batty people from all sides of the board, from creationist paranoid conservatives to dehumanizing “radical” whore liberals spew the fact that they have some lofty degree or are a college professor. It means NOTHING.

    • They were not “randomly strung together”

      You just did it again. You keep embarassing yourself publically. You just made another psycho-babble claim above “big ego = low self esteem”.

      So let me get this straight… BECAUSE some people have low-self-esteem, that therefore means it’s logical to go around shaming virgins.

      I’ve read autobiographies from the 1900′s, and I’ve seen the virgin shaming and whoring that was ever-present.

      List 10 examples…

      You live in a fantasy world where you glaze over the past and idealize it, while damning the present

      No you fucking idiot. I live in a different country. In this case it’s geography, not past.

      IN MY COUNTRY IT DOESNT EXIST THE WAY IT DOES WHERE YOU LIVE. ITS COMPLETELY RELATED TO FEMINIST PROPAGATION.

      In my country feminism is still almost non-existent, and therefore none of that shaming crap exists. Go to china and india, it’s also non-existent

      You completely embarassed yourself earlier by claiming that it “exists in all cultures” everewhere. And you never said “oops, I did mess up”.

      • “BECAUSE some people have low-self-esteem, that therefore means it’s logical to go around shaming virgins.”
        (if by “logical to go around” you mean “a potential effect of that low self-esteem” then…)

        YES!! Along with all sorts of other (so-perceived) inadequacies, like not having a girlfriend, or friends in general. Are you actually arguing against this…

        and ALL cultures? Stop putting words in my mouth asshole. Your proclamation that I am embarrassing myself is you projecting yourself. It doesn’t fucking matter that you live in Europe. Even so you still admitted that it’s present there, but you see it as new and residual from North America, and… Fuck, I’m not getting back into this. I was done with you. I am still done with you.

        • YES!! Along with all sorts of other (so-perceived) inadequacies, like not having a girlfriend, or friends in general. Are you actually arguing against this…

          You never explained why it’s ok. You explained just what the reason for doing it is, not WHY SOCIETY LETS IT COME OUT.

          Guys who are insecure about their own looks would go around spitting on handsome guys if they could, but they don’t? Why, because it’s not a cultural norm.

          We have A CULTURAL norm where it’s expected to mock and shame guys for being less experienced. You don’t see it being done to women, even though the same logic would apply, heck even more so.

          And ALL cultures? Stop putting words in my mouth asshole.

          Oh, so because it’s done in “many” cultures, therefore it’s ok.

          The more you talk, the deeper you sink. You’re nothing but a feminism-apologist and you have given absolutely no logical reason for supporting this culture of manipulating young men and using them through sexual shaming.

          The more you backpedal, the more you end up admitting that it DOESNT HAVE TO BE THIS WAY – it’s only this way BECAUSE WE LET BE.

          And why do we let it be as men, because there’s too many guys like you who are ok with and keep rationalizing it away.

  15. PEOPLE DO INSULT PEOPLE’S LACKING LOOKS OUT OF THEIR INSECURITY – IE: YOU UGLY, FAT PIECE OF (CRAZY) SHIT.

    That last sentence stings me, though I’m sure that’s what you intended. I spend all day fighting virgin shaming. When slutwalk came to my town, I was the first one to tell them they’re a bunch of insensitive assholes for suggesting we live in a whore-shaming culture with no mention of virgin-shaming. I hope you burn, asshole.

  16. Ben, you’re giving a (good) psychological explanation of why people might want to mock male virgins, but you’re ignoring the fact that there are lots of behaviors that people have psychological motivations to do but DON’T do anyways because the culture does not permit it.

    Do you get the difference here?

    I don’t think Alek is saying people WANT to mock male virgins because of feminism, he is simply saying that feminism has created a cultural norm where people feel they CAN indulge their desire to do so. Their desire to do so may indeed be based on personal insecurities, at least in many cases, but in non-feminist societies it is not considered acceptable to do so.

    See the difference?

    You are saying – people want to do it because of personal insecurities.

    Alek is saying – feminism ENABLES people to do this thing that they want to do (for whatever reason\)

    Its like lots of people may want to murder their bosses, but most don’t. But it’s possible imagine a culture where murdering your boss was considered acceptable – suddenly then people start doing this thing they wanted to do.

  17. There is a difference between a whore and a slut. A whore is a sexually promiscuous woman who is working as a prostitute. A slut is a sexually promiscuous woman who is NOT working as a prostitute.

    Sluts are a cancer to society. They are a major source of of welfare-dependent single mothers. Sluts can become penniless single mothers either through rampant premarital sex, or by being unfaithful wives.

    Welfare-dependent single mothers are a drain on the state’s coffers. They do not work and cannot raise their children properly because there is no father figure. Boys who grew up without a father figure are undisciplined sloths, and what awaits them is a life of chronic crime or homelessness.

    Girls of welfare-dependent single mothers are doomed to be single mothers themselves, often at a very young age. Their daughters will again get knocked up at a very young age, and so on and so forth. This is the mechanism behind a self-perpetuating welfare cycle.

    That’s why in traditional societies, instead of the celibate males, sluts are ridiculed to oblivion. In fact, they are hated with a passion. Feminism brought sluts to the mainstream, and that’s how the West is in the mess they are in right now.

    • To assume sluts are not in the mainstream in the East,
      is a mistake.
      Just because slut-culture isn’t celebrated there, ignores the fact that there are 2 kinds of promiscuity:
      Male promiscuity through a harem,
      Female promiscuity through serial monogamy.

      • Sluts are not mainstream in the East, but whores are (eventhough they may be illegal). Brothels can function both as a whorehouse to constraint sluts from the wider society and a harem to satisfy the sexual desires of the promiscuous male.

        Men should restraint from having mistresses and just go to a brothel. Women should stop having relationships with multiple males and just work as a prostitute. Once a slut becomes a whore, she is of no threat to society.

        The institution of prostitution has more benefit to society than you think it has. It is not called the world’s oldest profession for nothing.

        • Shut the fuck up with that whore-promoting theology. And how the hell do you think there’s lots of prostitutes if there’s not a lot of sluts to begin with. It’s not like a girl will be like “well, I’ve waited for the right person so far, but I think I’ll just start prostituting today”. You guys throw around your bizarre conceptions of society and people and cultures based on impulsive thoughts, often in contradiction with one another. And now you’re sitting here talking like a whore, in promotion of whoring. Men have a responsibility to be faithful too, not just for the women, but for the men they would effect with their whoring. Shut your slut mouth.

        • Men who make sure whores and sluts don’t get a ring,
          are protecting good men who would otherwise get suckered in by a fresh face.

          “It’s not like a girl will be like “well, I’ve waited for the right person so far, but I think I’ll just start prostituting today”
          Women lose their virginity in greater numbers per cohort of age, then men.
          That means they are sharing their virginity among a few men.
          And since men lose their virginity later than women per cohort of age,
          it seems that the women give up faster on finding the right guy.
          How is a relationship with a quitter going to work?

  18. I just need to clarify that sluts are hated in traditional societies not because they are welfare recipients, but because they cuckold their husbands, thereby creating broken families and marriages.

    The welfare state produces an environment in which slut behaviour can thrive, wasting taxpayer money in the process (which weakens the state) hence creating even more reasons to hate sluts.

    • Imagine a society that elevates female virtue, and says men are dogs.
      It’s happening in India,
      It already happened in the US.
      Welfare is only the end-product – legitimisation of being a slut (Whores are a step up, because they are HONEST), with children.
      So there’s 2 examples, one from the West, and one from the East.
      To claim that there are “morally superior women in greater numbers” in the East vs. the West, doesn’t hold water, if only because Western culture and media … have become the global culture and media.

      I would also like to remind you that Slutwalks have taken place globally … even in Asia.

      • My main concern is that anti-feminism or sexism is only playing right into the hands of those that would absolutely LOVE to associate a value for prudency with sexism, among other things. I believe more prudent people are in truth less sexist, and statistics already show they are more intelligent and have less problems with self-esteem. Feminism is the idea of fundamental human equality among the sexes, not something that denigrates men, and any such feminism is not real feminism. If the “intelligent, kind, sensitive” folks at slutwalk that I argued with got wind of so much of what is written in this blog, they would likely scoff at any further notion of mine about being sensitive to the plight of those prudent ones that value sex as sacred and a society that wants to flauntingly trample all over their hope. As if they didn’t already scoff. I should note, however, that I told them anyone using feminism as a tool to justify whoring is a disgrace to feminism, as you could just as easily go the other way and criticize men who are whore, and got more support and “thumbs up” from people then the things THEY were saying, in their OWN domain. I feel that all this talk from you guys is primarily about radical anti-feminist doctrine, and only secondarily about prudency/whoring/virginity – in fact; really just a cover or excuse for it.

        • @Ben:
          Sex positive feminists justify whoring.

          “I feel that all this talk from you guys is primarily about radical anti-feminist doctrine, and only secondarily about prudency/whoring/virginity – in fact; really just a cover or excuse for it.”
          So men that women grind down … are men that should not speak up?

          U Mad?

      • I’m well aware that India has succumbed to Feminism. Judging from the ferocity of the Ukrainian FEMEN organisation, it wouldn’t surprise me if Feminism is slowing taking root Eastern Europe. Singapore is getting there with their Association of Women for Action and Research (AWARE).

        I think that’s about it. The rest of the East is safe.

  19. “You want a man to share your life with? Be the kind of woman he wants to be around.”

    Saw that quote up above by a guy named PRay, and I’ve got to say this is one of the great instances of unintentional irony in history. After creating an entire blog about the injustice of men being expected to behave in ways that appeal to women if they want a girl, he then turns right around and says women should behave in ways that appeal to men if she wants a man. How about you become the kind of man a woman wants to be around? A good start would be to lose the chip on your shoulder because women are going to sense it immediately and run for the hills. They can sense a creeper vibe a mile off. I know, I used to be one.

    Also got to say there is an absurd amount of Catholic style sex shaming/glorification going on here… the whole “I’m holding out for sex to be hugely meaningful and spiritual and the heavens will move and earth will shake with the holy and long deferred fires of our loving passion!” Sorry guys, the first thought I had after losing it (and with a girl I did genuinely care for) was “so that was it huh?”

    It’s just sex. We’re animals, we fuck like animals, and we enjoy it like animals. It’s not the be-all end-all of human existence and it’s not going to change your life or transform you from a miserable person to a happy one. Remember back to before you had your first drink and how exciting it seemed beforehand? And then you finally do crack a beer and realize… it’s kind of an acquired taste and while getting drunk can be fun in the right company it’s not exactly going to alter anything about who you are or improve your life? Yeah, same for sex. It’s not going to meet the expectations of some of the dudes around here no matter what girl it is, how virginal she is, or how much she behaves like a devoted old testament wife.

    Anyway, this has been a nice way to take my mind off the nicotine withdrawal for an evening. Heck, I could’ve written half these posts myself when I was in my mid-20′s. I can’t believe this is what I sounded like then…

    • Oh, but I suppose you don’t question people’s value for monogamy? It’s a value. Just the same way. Your downgrading it doesn’t change that, or how it hurts to hold the value while another throws it around. And stop comparing it to religion. People who do that like you are the bane of my existence. The statistics don’t show Catholics to be any more abstinent. The religious and the whoring and both shown to be less intelligent. So who, then, are the virgins for the most part? You are part of a homogenous, christian, whore society, no matter how much these nutcases on this particular website may be a bit of both worlds. Stop downgrading integrity by associating it with religious conformity to make yourself seem all free thinking and intelligent, and yet.. what is giving in to this whore society but the epitomy of conformity?

    • @C:
      If women are so great at spotting bad men … why do the majority of them get married but initiate divorce?
      If women are so great at spotting bad men … why are there so many single mothers?
      (Richard’s Rebuttal): Also remember that if women did not pair up with men who actually hated them … all domestic violence in a relationship would be the fault of women.

      Yeah, women are so fantastic … but are the ones driving consumer growth through advertising (which works by manipulating insecurity) … and keep saying men are oppressing them.

      Hope your princess doesn’t chop your head off, white knight!

  20. I think the culture of virgin-shaming made popular by radical leftists, feminazis, the lamestream media, Hollywood/Tv, “players”, “alphas”, sluts and other sexual supremicists should seriously be regarded as being as equivalent in their bigotry and borderline-genocidal cultural destructiveness as any American racial-supremacy group of the past, such as the KKK. While I’m on that, notice how it’s well-documented that non-whites in general(be it Asian, Hispanic, black, etc) are much more sexually active then whites just going by the modern birth statistics of the past several decades alone? I think, given that, it’s quite obvious there’s also a reverse-racist AS WELL AS misandrist element to this male virgin shaming……..but of course the lamestream media will ignore(and has ignored) that since it doesn’t fit into their outdated, archaic 1960s “victim” panderization programming for the general population for the passification of so-called “oppressed” women and minorities(it’s 2012 HIPPIES).

    • You know, I was just thinking the other day, about how these encultured Americans (granted I am American) always cry and demonize cultures they don’t understand, while pretending they’re cultured for it.

      For example, these people go crazy about Burkas, (I mean I’m not gonna say it’s all perfectly ok) as if they’re entitled to speak on objectification of women with their rampant sexual lifestyles and American pornification, female-objectification everywhere, and meat marketing. I’m sorry? But it’s not dehumanizing when a virgin man is upset their partner is a self-entitled non-virgin? Why should a woman feel like they’re being treated as property for being someone’s virgin, (even if that person is a virgin), but a man should not? (even when being with a whore?) No, in fact these people consider it downright discriminatory against the woman that the virgin wants to be treated as an equal.

      You know what I think? Virgin men in America should start wearing Burkas to make a statement to all these dehumanizing supposedly-progressive parasites.

      I mean, not really, that’d be silly looking, (yet awesomely sith-lord looking) but still…

      • “Virgin men in America should start wearing Burkas to make a statement to all these dehumanizing supposedly-progressive parasites.”

        Well, as funny as that is, it would get us noticed :), and seriously, it’s not as if we don’t already have enough “weird” stereotypes against us(thanks to most of American television).

        I fully admit, as an American, I don’t know how it is for male virgins in other cultures, and, on a seperate point, I’ll probably surely get hammered by someone for introducing “race” into this discussion, though it’s hard to ignore the fact that alot of the sexually-supremicist modern terminology(“playa” and “game” just to name 2) find their origins(at least here in America) in inner-city minority culture(probably just as the terms “alpha”, “beta”, “omega” and other classifications and pejoritives that are specifically meant to both seperate us from the sexual “Joneses” as well as oppress our place in society, much like “the mainstream” once did likewise to gays, blacks, women, native Americans, etc.

        It does seem no matter who “the mainstream” make amends to, there’s always that lust for it to find that new “nigger”(and we’re it I guess). It really is(sex) probably the last bastion of true supremacist sentiment, and no doubt I think the current poor economic situation here for most(stripping away/diluting former pride in American material wealth for most) has helped bring this current, barbarian-like sex “elitism” to the forefront among the dole-taking gang bangers, thugs and single-parent sluts of our nation.

        I will admit though, it doesn’t really offend me a whole lot that the “enlightened” ghetto underclasses I mention value male virgins as “lesser”(I mean, who the f— are they, right?), but it does cause concern when pretty much all of mainstream tv/movies(all the way down to WWE wrestling shows marketed now toward kids for supposed PR purposes(“anti-bullying”, yeah right!)) and the media is consistently on this gleeful scapegoating and demonization of us.

        The blog starter does have a point about the fact that we, as taxpaying virgins, are giving involuntarily into the very enabling system(for the sexual nazis) that is slowly sucking our souls dry and turning our hearts to stone.

        I’m 39, a virgin male, and have been through rejection by my only romantic pursuit that occured in college(because I wasn’t making money, even though I was busy with f—ing college), have been through a lifetime of untreated(and uncared for) and crippling social anxiety, neglecting parents, an abusive older sister who, when I was 8 and “playing house” with her, taught me exactly why I should never pursue marriage or children(guess I should thank her really)….and lastly I just got done last week spending 3 whole weeks wall-to-wall on various “dating websites”, talking probably to a bunch of auto-generated malware IMs pretending to be women that were “interested” in me, until I said “enough” and cancelled my subscriptions to those filthy scam sites, deleted my entire online porn library, my WWE “divas”(women’s wrestling) links and anything else reminding me of whores(I’m just getting started on my DVD archives).

        That is not complaining…..again, I’m grateful I’ve seen the light and will hopefully find, like yourself, some sort of new, positive inspiration in life, be it art(though I’m no painter for sure:)), philosophy, eastern religion, starting a business(which I need for $$$) or whatever….and I have the utmost confidence that fate will reward my newly-found rejection/dismissal of the modern pop-media slut culture(pornography, most of tv…).

        I do kind of agree with that other poster, though, that postulated that it would be maybe better for the welfare, single-parent sluts draining the system to perhaps seek employment in the one thing they’re truly good at, and that would probably keep them from continuing to leech off the dole(I’m in no way assuming this is the “right” approach, however it kind of makes sense from a cold, economic viewpoint, if nothing else).

        [sorry for the length....I tend to ramble(and probably not make much sense at times); product of my environmentally-conditioned social isolation & phobias perhaps(sometimes voluntary solitary confinement doesn't seem like such a bad alternative(LOL)).]

        • no, it was very nice reading, thank you for that.

          You are definitely not alone, and society completely understates it.. There are a lot of 30, 40, etc year old virgins and the kind that even have resolved to not ever have sex unless they find a virgin. I mean I’m not saying that’s your expectation, but the point is that’s not so easy, and it says a lot that someone is willing to do that.

          I myself sold out a bit between the ages of roughly 22 to 25/6, and losing virginity, for me, was the most traumatic experience of my life after all the blood, sweat, and tears I poured into it. I hate that girl more than anyone on the planet, yet there’s so many people that would actually consider HER the victim and me some sort of discriminatory person against her, and everyone else doesn’t seem to think it’s such a big deal. Part of me wishes I had just had never had sex till now, it sort of destroyed the meaning in my life, and in many regards now I’m just like everyone else, though I have no since gone back to my old mindframe of “I will not have sex, I will not be in a relationship unless it’s the one”

          I think people (especially these thug potsmoking losers you speak of) cannot understand having that sort of devotion, integrity, and strong-mindedness, and surely don’t want to admit the inferior creature they are, and so they go on endlessly calling the virgins “fag” “waste of life” etc, clearly demonstrating that they don’t actually consider them to be human in their mind.. they simply cannot put themselves in their shoes, cannot understand them.. And it does hurt. It hurts a lot.
          But like I said, I’ve come across a lot of people that are exactly you, and exactly who I was and who I am again, who simply will not sell out and for them society has no authority over. I think these are the best people in the world, because they take on all this for themselves, in pursuit of a dream. They are the smartest, most secure, woman-humanizing (on the male side), in-touch-with-themselves people around, yet they get called chauvinist, insecure, asshole, etc. I cannot explain the intensity of the rage I feel for such people – the guys that talk about women like cattle, their conquests in the men’s locker room, while the virgins are screaming inside, and the women that reward them, and then those very same people want to have a vendetta against the sentimental virgins who hurt for it, calling them chauvinist, as if they think they’re so cultured and aware of issues or something. And no one is aware of it, and even the virgins try to deny and compromise it all in their head when it’s clear it’s destroying them. This is why I have to say something, and say it as loudly as I can. I’m not even that quiet in person anymore about it, the other day I even gave my coworker a loud “What, you got a problem with virgins?” in his face, which, well, they can’t really follow up, cuz they don’t expect a response like that.

          and I get what you’re saying about the dating websites and porn and all, although I’ve been on dating website for a while, and I made it quite clear who I am, and in fact one of the two people I ended up having a significant relationship with I found on a (free, I only do free) dating website, and she was a 30 year-old virgin.
          I’ve basically turned my profiles into a diatribe ripping on whore society, and when I do get messages, it’s usually in concurrence, everyone else gets scared away, and that’s exactly how it should be… save the occasional braindead girl who’s looking for someone to add to her marriage and I can only gather didn’t read my profile, or who knows what. So gratefully, I don’t have to wade knee deep through people that blacken my soul anymore, when it comes to those, although I’ve set those aside now.

      • I can’t say thanks to you enough for all the kind words. I gotta say in this “up-is-down” 21st Century I don’t expect kindness, being that with all of the predictable-as-all-clockwork “enlightened” non-virgin, potsmoking douchebag varieties you speak of, usually the more I reveal about myself(ie the longer I write) the more-accurately I can predict when and where they’ll turn the knife on me and, with great assistance from their anonymity on “the internets”, reveal the true nature of their primative, unevolved, animalistic(and frankly backward) selves, and how ironic that that’s the very nature these silly 1960s-worshipping “enlightened” types aspire to when it’s the direct opposite of what they should aspire to and if they really want to achieve true, full evolutionary enlightenment(and not to sound like a narcississtic douchebag of my own, although I can sometimes I guess) they should follow the path(or at least the mindset) of people like us. It sickens me, beyond even my own ego, when I imagine everything the world could get done if there were more people like us, that do and value the right thing….the thing that has worked for millenia, that which has allowed us to aspire, create, innovate, evolve and move forward. The “hippys”, and their children and now thug-worshipping grandchildren, seem to want only to go backwards, and in their deep-seated, probably-subconscious shame they project(key word) their pitiful failures as human beings onto me with sniper-like accuracy and, like I said, predictability whenever they assail me, like rabid wolves, with ad-hominems(and crude variants of them) such as “inbred”, “ignorant”, “retard”, “illiterate”, “racist”, “crazy”, “nazi”, etc etc etc, but the truth is WE are the movers, people like us who dare to be honest and speak up(as you did wisely with your co-worker) and acknowledge the 50-megaton elephant in the room. We are the ones that move(and have moved) human evolution forward, if not through scientific, technological or other tangible innovation, then at least through our real-life suffering and the wisdom it provides for those “potsmoking” not-so-humble masses IF they would just bury their insane, animalist, herd-following, lemming-like pride and groupthink and listen to us for just that 1
        solitary second.

        I also spoke from honesty on my dating website profiles, and one 30-something, all-American, midwestern fembot in particular while “praising” my honesty simultaneously assaulted me with her naggingly-predictable slut-enabling feminazi nonsense when she questioned my(Correct) assertion that the vast majority of the females on that particular site(xxxmatch.com(lol)) might have sexually-transmitted diseases…I mean, when the picures in the profiles of these “women”(whether real profiles/spam or whatever) have what clearly appear to be PORN STARS in the picture(s), then it’s logical to draw that very conclusion.

        I did today, however(and suprisingly), get a random, seemingly sincere email from a(by the picture at least(and I know anyone can be anyone(male or female) online)) attractive and quite-younger-than-me female who I gave my email address to before I parted ways with the dating sites, and she supposedly likes me and wants to tell me more about her and send me more photos. She left it at that, and still hasn’t responded to my cordial reply, but if she is really as sincere as she wants me to believe right now and she really wants to be my friend, then I’m giving her that chance, because that’s what I would do naturally. That’s what I would have always done(the right thing) even if I would have been born with a more extroverted personality, “movie-star” gook looks, a “ripped” physique & 50 other women had, from the time of my adolescence, loved me and then left me for some other alpha(or potsmoking alpha in beta’s clothing). We, who really love women in the true sense, deserve to have that one true bond with the one ideal woman of our dreams, and there would be alot more of those women if the granola-bar late-1960s hadn’t come along in all it’s ostentatiously-humble, folk-singing, pot-smoking splendor and lured 3 generations of females into accepting slutification. If I can, by my humble and honest true nature, convert the sluttified(or those females imprisoned by their insane ideology) and make them honest, one-by-one, through my wisdom and the magic of the world wide web, then I know my life has purpose and meaning.

        What are these free dating websites again?

        • God you said a mouthful that I couldn’t agree more with. I was thinking today about how similar the virgin and sex-valuing oppression is to the “nigger” and “fag” lynching, yet how the people who perpetrate it often like to scream loudest about such anti-black, anti-gay etc business, and it’s like their mentality revolves around the idea of victimhood of the whores, which to me is so beyond outrageous, not to mention the fact that having sex is the accepted norm, it’s the 99%. literally. But the fact of their sense of being “open minded” for defending the whore from.. well, from what really? Makes this all rather difficult on how exactly the issue can be tackled, because in their minds, being a virgin is brainwashing and religious nonsense, conservative, etc, people with a value for sex are sexist if they’re men, repressed etc. so the whole issue is completely backwards and it’s frustrating because that makes it extremely hard to break through these people’s minds to show them what they are.

          I think online it’s hardest, because they can’t see me. They can’t see what kind of person I am, the woman-respecting, polite (though smart-ass to certain people) aware, knowledgeable, and meeker attitude I have, the fact that my hair goes down to my mid back, the clothes I wear, the way my body looks and my social ability, vegetarianism, irreligiosity, etc, etc. and so are free to chalk up everything in their minds to make me some sort of cave man or amish person or who knows what. (not that I have a problem with amish people in the least, in fact I quite like them) (or cavemen, sorry Geico commercials)
          When I speak to people in person about this sort of thing though, it’s like I don’t even have to say anything, they have no argument, they can’t even start, and if anything begin to, how do I say… admit stupidity and then rationalize themselves for it.

          I think this is why art is useful because I can communicate a lot more online in that, because they can see that I’m not some crew-cut christian in a tucked in polo shirt trying to adhere to a trite nuclear family vision that he got fed at church or something. No, I’m just trying to make the world a place where we don’t pour insecurity into people’s lives, are intimidated into wearing a stoic mask of ego over our sentimentility, and dehumanize everyone in our brainwashing with all the things we act but never even questioned once.

          Ah, I didn’t mean to make this a big long reply again, but I just wanted to reverberate what you said, to show you that I truly know where you’re coming from and it makes me glad.

          as far as the dating sites, one was the trial of match, and another a trial of this “goth”-theme dating site (silly I know) through which you can sort of sneak info sometimes, (like to other profiles, facebook or whatever) and people can find you through there. The goth one is no good, there’s just too many dummies, but oddly it was the one that 30yr old girl found me on, and inferred my other website through the information in my profile to message me. But forget those, what I really recommend is OKCupid.com, that’s good and 100% free and it bases your match percentage on 100s of questions you can answer, and you can make them mandatory for your match to agree with, and yes, I saw a number of them that where questions pertaining to virginity and promiscuity. I hadn’t gotten a message for months and months on there, but in the past 2-3 weeks got a bunch at once, I don’t know, the world of dating is mysterious as hell.

      • In that one post(though it was long and I might have been half awake) I believe I clearly meant to liken modern male-virgin shaming to exclusively the psychological oppression(excluding the physical) of past singled-out groups, although I certainly wonder whenever meth-addicted alpha dopes in loud pickup trucks in my small town drive around in circles around my block for no reason if I’m the next guy taken up the hill & beaten the tar out of at the scenic overlook, Matthew Shepherd-style, for not living up to some caveman “alpha” ideal, and I admit I as an older man who wears cheap single-color sweaters, affordable dress slacks & polo shirts from JcPenneys(because I just don’t give a crap I guess in my older age(lol)) really have no clue about the origin of all this fancy Greek-lingo sex-status nonsense with the “betas”, “omegas” etc, but that’s immaterial to the reality of what’s behind the terminology which you and I and many others suffer daily, and the fact that we’re all different and may widely vary in other areas/walks of life only further highlights the ignorance of those who seek to oppress us under one ridiculous negative stereotype which serves only to transfer that hurt inside themselves onto us(the hurt they must disown since they’re too proud), and of course I wasn’t trying to literally blame the dietary, appearance or musical-taste trends of a certain long-ago decade for this mess we’re in, I was merely creating a frame of reference for the period I’m guessing that the docile, slack-jawed sheeple masses of this nation likely all got confused and accepted mass whorification, though I admit growing up a defenseless little boy in the 1970s/early ’80s and experiencing the transferent verbal abuse of a typical know-it-all, snot-nosed(at the time) hippy uncle(who favored my feminist-brainwashed & abusive older sister on top of it) didn’t exactly instill me with a whole lot of simpathy for the original “hair-down-the-back” generation, though yes, I know better than to stereotype. Also, what you say about art breaking down the walls of perception ingrained in words, I get that(even at an “art 101″ level courtesy of a small Wisconsin university surrounded by nothing but open fields, abandoned rail tracks and pine trees).

        Anyway, back to dating websites….when I trialed Adult Friend Finder a couple weeks back, I noticed they have this thing beside their personality test(which I did piss poor in) called a “purity test” filled almost exclusively with questions only answerable by the typical un-meek, un-virgined whoring slobs, and it made me feel a bit unwelcome & out-of-place to say the least(I checked 7 out of 100 for “unpure” activities, which was “prude” level in the test’s own words. So not only is my personality only representative of 2% of the dating world, but I’m also a prude on top of that(lol)…

        Oh, and that woman I told you about who “likes” me still hasn’t responded more than a day after my initial reply, despite the fact she said she “likes” me, which I called her out on today, basically saying “Look if you like me, write me”. Probably yet another scam artist wanting to ask me to go to some ripoff webcam, which I have no disire to(those women in the webcams shown in thumbnails at webcam sites look no different than the pledge-drive phone operators shown on PBS networks whenever they want to convince the viewing public that people are actually buying their government-funded dribble of mostly awful British tv that makes the Osbournes look intelligent).

        • understood and well spoke

          and I’m pretty sure Adult Friend Finder is a casual-sex site, not a dating site, which is why that test was so completely outrageous and judgmental.

          and my long hair (lol am I really going on about my HAIR? God!) certainly has nothing to do with the 60′s and hippies and all that which I never began to like, maybe more along the lines of a much later evolution of influence, something still-distant-from yet closer to metal, which I don’t much like either, perhaps somewhere closer to an industrial, grunge, medieval, or even ascetic sort of thing. Ah but now we’re hitting on the generation gap, and so many older people can’t help but liken all alternativism today with their hippie days, when the truth is there is some very broad variation in the philosophy within each subculture.

          I quickly regretted mentioning polo shirts, since I know everyone wears them and you might too, but just as well. I had a specific homogeneous-fashioned-Christian image in my head and it just involved that. which frankly is silly for people to associate to begin with, considering that being homogeneous is what a whore is, and we all know there’s just as many of them in the churches, perhaps even more, then out on the streets, and statistics show that this is absolutely so. Doesn’t every whore I know get high on slutting it up on Saturday and then going to church on Sunday. I mean, If they cast aside this notion that being a Christian somehow automatically makes them “good”, then maybe they would actually question their lifestyle. But I do like a lot of Christians, so that’s ok, too.

          As far as not replying, sometimes people take a while, don’t log in much, I get lazy myself, I wouldn’t worry. I’ll message someone, not get an answer, or I’ll get a message that’s completely sincere and nice from a real person, reply with nothing that could possibly put them off, (as a lot of the time I’m not even interested anyways) and then no answer.

      • God, I’m glad someone else out there thinks that “purity” test was oppressive….and about the “long hair”, my sincerest apologies for perhaps harkening your style back into the stone ages of a glorified white-trash culture in San Franciso & elsewhere 5 or 6 years before my birth that even I as an “older” person was no where close to being a part of(see my dickwad uncle for that, he may have a more “informed” opinion, though he’s in his mid-60s and living alone with his all dead mother’s money and a woe-is-me attitude while he sits in and out of skin-cancer remission for being the typical all-American 1980s “yuppie” douchebucket and sunburning himself dark red(I witnessed it firsthand) beside the public swimming pool at his suburban apartment while wearing a shit-eating grin in celebration of his vain, shallow, typical yuppie attempt to deny his natural pale Nordic caucasian skin appearance for the edification of the super-shallow 1980s era of direct-from-Hollywood slut culture). By no means though am I putting myself above “alternativism” as you say just because I alluded to the whore-groveling hypocrisy of one early subset, the hippies, who were by and large really the bright neon polo with the little aligator-wearing soulless yuppies all along, they just had to replace one slut-pacifying hypnotising mind poison(LSD & Timothy Leary) with another(cocaine & ABBA)….like I said, saw it firsthand.

        And don’t worry about inadvertently mentioning my fashion as I knew you were interpreting how you feel the shallow feminazis imagine us & our fashion choices….I was merely meaning to say indirectly to those feminazis & their faux-leather & slut-aspiring tendencies “yeah, that’s me, got a problem, whore?”, so, again, no offense caused by you, we’re “cool” or whatever the kids say….and you’re absolutely right that it’s ridiculous of these e-zine whores & the like to single out churches when like you said so many of their own kind attend the Sunday-morning mass chanting meaningless hymns with their breath still a putrid amalgamation of last night’s alcohol & semen(sorry for the graphicness but such is the life of the all-American slut following their fellow-blind Hollywood tabloid whores whose mouths smell probably even far worse after a typical Saturday night except they probably don’t bother with the whole church charade(at least they’re more honest, those overpaid Hollywood sluts, or just too passed-out to wake up until 6pm Sunday)). If there’s one beef I, as an admitted agnostic, have with the “give your sins to Jesus” mindset is it never allows for honest critical examination and self-redemption by the slut, who will always be a slut so long as American church, state, media & pop culture give the slut what exactly what the slut wants.

        Well I did get a reply. She claimed she’s been waiting for my reply(though I sent like 4). She’s from Russia, so who knows, my emails might have been delayed by the “authorities” over there. She was telling me of how she never knew her parents, was raised as an orphan in the hospital she now works in as a nurse & says her patients are all transported to Moscow(250 miles west of her) for further treatment, and that she never knew her siblings, that she wants to find a good man(me I guess) that isn’t like all those horrible drunk Russian wife-cheating men and so on so forth and then I look at her gorgeous supermodel-like photos & wonder if that could really be her, but compliment her on the beautiful photos nonetheless & offer my sympathies & goodbye until I have the time to send her another email with photos of myself sometime later.

        • Hey, *you* (I wish I knew your name?)

          I’m replying to let you know that part of what you said earlier in this discussion kept popping in my head urging me to use it as a quote in a related drawing. So I paraphrased, cut up, added to, and slightly modified a part of what you said, and presented it in anonymous (uncredited) quote format. Most of what you said is still completely intact, however, and I feel it holds true to the gist of the specific point you were getting across in the central sentence I based it on. (The one about society always lusting to find a new “Nigger”)

          I hope you don’t mind, and I hope you’ll like it.. it will be up online in about… oh, seven days. Remind me, if I don’t link the drawing to you by then, or if you want any sort of credit mentioned. …It’s also possible I may be homeless for a couple weeks longer then expected, and won’t be able to link you, as I’m moving to the other side of the country and will be living out of my car for a while, but my website will auto-update to show it, and I’ll make sure to have it uploaded there and ready to go before I leave.

          Thanks, !you!…?
          Ben

          Also if you wanted to share an email or profile or something with me too? that’d be great so we don’t have to communicate through here. you don’t have to but I would enjoy being online acquaintances anyways. (being that I liked a lot of what you said) my contact info should be listed under “hire” on bengoodspeed.com

        • Ben, sorry I didn’t see your last message much earlier. Much has happened to me since the last time I wrote here back on 5/5/12, the most notable involving me being diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome back in early July(it’s a long story) and learning exactly how certain deficiencies of mine in relation to the disorder have naturally and understandably precluded me from silly things like relations with the opposite sex…..anyway, yes, that’s fine for you to borrow “my” stuff, which probably isn’t really mine I’m sure, and even is it was, I’m sure it wouldn’t exactly sell me any tshirts anyway in 2012(now 2013) due to that dreaded “N” Word, you know….anyway, thanks again for the kind words and if you still want me to email you let me know here since on your “hire” page your email and the words “contact me” are crossed out with a “DON’T” in front of “contact me”, so I didn’t want to invade….anyway I hope all is well and please get back to me here(I don’t have a Facebook or the like; I’m very private). If you are still reading this(hopefully) and do give me the go ahead to contact you at your “Hire” email(olr wherever else), I’ll give you an email there(probably a Yahoo account), ok? Later, friend.

          Steve

        • Steve,
          oooh, I was wondering where you got to!
          Yes, please do email me there.

          Oh, and if you didn’t see Nigriv yet you can see it here, too: http://fav.me/d5h327v

          Also, people have kind of picked up the drawing to some degree,
          not on my main website (no one pays attention to that) but on other social art websites and my facebook art page, a fair sum of favorites and comments and shares.. Most significant of all this guy from an art gallery in Denmark contacted me, trying to get me to sell some art to him, and one of the few pieces he requested was ‘Nigriv’

          You know, I don’t know how I feel about the whole Aspergers thing. You might have noticed that there’s a whole craze about it lately, basically a trend, and not only that but at very high percentage of people identify themselves as that. To me, with so very many “mental disorders” or deficiencies or whatever, they’re basically just a way of categorizing people by personality, like ADD, Bipolar, Aspergers, etc. There are more severe forms that can’t be denied of course, like Autism from aspergers, but nevertheless, I feel like Aspergers is almost a way of calling someone a nerd, and all a lot of these disorders are labeled because of society fearing what’s different and wanting to give it a slight sense of being “wrong”.
          (not to mention I think a lot of people are jealous of talent and intelligence, but want to keep their own sense of special, so they call people “nerds” and “savants” to keep them under their thumb ;)

          But, I don’t know, there might be some truth to the social awkwardness, that type of thing… I can be shy and painfully quiet, yet I doubt I would be diagnosed with it, however my views on sex still persist as they always have no matter what point in the social spectrum I’m at. Still I wouldn’t put a whole lot of stock in the latest way people categorize and perceive the mind in all our dishing out ritalin and drugs that we know little about, and the way they’re martketed on TV and the different philosophies that have been morphing again and again throughout history when it comes to the brain.

          Anyways, this post wouldn’t let me reply to your last comment for some reason so I’m replying to one further up the tree. Nice to hear from you.. my email thing, hahah yes, again, please contact me, that page was just sort of a joke to myself on not trying to market my art anymore. I dislike the way people like me.. “starving artists” come off when we try to basically “beg for scraps” like that, and through my experience with art jobs I realized art is better served as a personal thing..

  21. I wanted to share some art… I was sort of throwing the idea around before, because there seems to be some form of chauvinism going on here that I’m not sure I understand, because frankly I think it belongs in the hands of the whores, and I don’t want to get associated with that. but there are also so many ideas that I can’t seem to find anywhere else, that I, well..

    It drives me crazy, a whore society seems to have projected every single fault of their own onto the virgins, prudent, and people with a value for sex, after their subhuman treatment of them throughout their whole lives.

    ..What am I getting at..
    This blog originally spoke of revolt.
    That’s how I found it, I sought it out in a search.
    And I feel like a large aspect of my life has irrecoverably been destroyed by a whore society, and so I decided to start a project, I need something to do with it, after all, seeing as how I can’t seem to get by this sense of my dreams having been shattered, and if there’s anything I could do with my life that’s worth anything, anymore, it’s revolt against a brutal mob.

    And I make art, that’s what I’ve always done, so I figured I’d start a daily art project. And a major theme that recurs in it and will always, is my viewpoints on sexuality in society.

    Like I said, you spoke of revolt, and this is my way of it.. A lot of people see this, and I just hope to gather some like-minds together and maybe even spread some ideas that will make a change in people’s perceptions.

    please take a look, hope you like, and (positive?) feedback is appreciated:
    bengoodspeed.com/circadian

    examples of what I mean by the themes related to sex and society:
    http://www.bengoodspeed.com/circadian/?p=590
    http://www.bengoodspeed.com/circadian/?p=403
    http://www.bengoodspeed.com/circadian/?p=395
    http://www.bengoodspeed.com/circadian/?p=762
    etc…

    • Oh god, you can infer everything from that title alone.. basically “Lol those virgins can’t get any and now they want to call their rejections skanks.”

      People like that get this mentality precisely because they are the women that date chauvinist alpha males who call them just that, hypocritically. And they never once stopped to consider that the issue is completely different when it comes to a virgin. They want to be used by those guys all their life, and then they want to be with the virgin guy once they realize he’s the one who’s devoted his whole life and he’s the one that will actually humanize and treat her as precious. But they don’t see any issue with him being dehumanized by treating her as his one precious while every other spoiled guy made her their toy. And too late, because he’ll never tolerate her, and even when he is it will be miserable. This is why she gets called a slut; she can cry about how she wants to think it’s sexist all day – but if she really wanted sexual equality she’d start by making a society where the most respectful men don’t get punished severely and dehumanized their entire lives precisely for their respect.

      I don’t dare read, it’s just too hard to take, and I’m sure it’s predictable anyways. :(

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