The Syndicate: The Internet Marketing Scam Organization Behind Game

Who started all of the game crap we now see?  Some nutjobs will say the Federal Reserve, but that’s obviously wrong and insane.  Most of you will answer Roissy because he is the primary person generating game in the so called manosphere.  But Roissy did not come up with game on his own.  He got it from others as promoting game acts as a pyramid scheme.  A lot of you are familiar with Neil Strauss, Mystery, Tyler, etc., but none of them originally created game.  Some of you might be familiar with Eben Pagan/David DeAngelo who is the creator of game in its current iteration (although he rehashed R. Don Steele and Ross Jefferies).  However, that’s not a complete answer as you will find out.  (David DeAngelo is a name Eben Pagan used to promote his game scam so they are the same person.)  Eben Pagan is a member of an organization of internet marketing con artists that calls itself The Syndicate.  The Syndicate is behind lots of online scams beyond game/PUA such as internet marketing scams and penis enlargement scams.  (Yes, The Syndicate is responsible for the penis enlargement spam in your inbox.)

Where does The Syndicate come from and how is it connected to game?  And how do we know about it?  We know about The Syndicate due to the work of Jason Jones, a lawyer living in Chicago who runs The Salty Droid blog documenting The Syndicate and internet marketing scams in general.  Jones’s work exposing internet marketing scams and The Syndicate was distilled into a single article by The Verge.  There is also an associated video which you should watch.

While everything the video says is important, take note of the explanation of The Syndicate starting at around 9:58.  Frank Kern is the internet marketing scammer who invented the concept of “syndicates” where internet marketing con artists get together to boost each other.  Kern got together with other internet marketing con artists to form a syndicate which they call The Syndicate.  Eventually, one of the individuals in The Syndicate was Eben Pagan which makes the connection between game and The Syndicate even more obvious.  Frank Kern has more links to game which is why I said that Eben Pagan isn’t a complete answer to who is behind game.  PUAHate documented the links between game and Frank Kern.

Although guys on here are used to thinking about PUA as this isolated thing, the truth is it was really just one subculture in a large, mostly centralized scam movement based around Frank Kern and his partners, starting around 2005 or so and based primarily in California.

Of course, I’m talking about “the Syndicate” and its affiliates, a group that appears to include community notables like Eben Pagan (David D), Neil Strauss and Mystery.

It’s kinda strange to think about it, but it seems like most of the scams you see on the internet these days are connected to one network. All these programs, like Mystery Method, The Rich Jerk, The Empower Network, various penis pill companies, “steroid replacement” supplements and so on, they’re all done by a bunch of people who know each other.

Like, just to give you an example, here are some connections between PUA and the internet marketing world:

– Mystery has worked with Frank Kern’s associate Mike Long.

– Frank Kern himself has worked with Neil Strauss.

– Eben Pagan has worked with tons of people in IM and PUA.

– Tyler himself has said he has friends who run “penis pill companies.”

So it’s pretty clear all this stuff is run by a pretty tight network.

The connections between game and The Syndicate which includes other internet marketing scams from penis enlargement BS to other forms of dating advice run very deep.  Game (or PUA) is a scam just as penis enlargement pills are.  It was even created by the same group of internet marketing con artists.  It’s telling that The Syndicate created multiple forms of dating advice.  The article from The Verge even listed the internet marketing’s biggest (scam) niches, and half of them were forms of dating advice.

Internet Marketing is a business model (if one based on fraud), but it’s also a niche in its own right. This is the ultimate example of how Scamworld folds in on itself: material by Internet Marketers, for Internet Marketers, that purports to teach you Internet Marketing.

A-Z Money Machine: Are you “fed up trying to outsmart Google, pump out affiliate sites, or peddle crappy Kindle ebooks to make a few bucks online?” Yours for four payments of $277!

Undercover Commissions: The inventor of the “Undercover Traffic Pump,” which combines an “undercover traffic source” and something called the “cash tripler method.” Available courtesy of a self-described “family man” named Matt Bacak. $49 + $49/month.

New Age. Yep, that’s right. Having psychic powers is one thing, but how are you going to monetize?

Spiritual Practitioner Secrets: Lisa Turner offers ways to both “get more deeply connected to your intuition & innate psychic abilities” and the advice that will help you “make a great living helping other people with your amazing talents.” This one-time investment comes at a price of £497 (roughly $800). But don’t worry‚ you are protected by Turner’s sixty day “Get Psychic” money-back guarantee.

Mind Movies: This comes courtesy of our old friend Glen Ledwell. “Mind Movies is a unique ‘Law of Attraction’ solution that has already brought astounding success to millions of people around the world.” And you can too! Ready to “manifest [your] aspirations?” Try the Subliminal Success Accelerator for free at MindMovies.com

Pick-Up Artistry. This is a classic, and more often than not the pages here speak for themselves. Not that all Internet Marketers remain stuck forever in the PUA ghetto: indeed, Double Your Dating impresario David DeAngelo / Eben Pagan has moved on to full scale membership in The Syndicate.

Female Mastery for Men: Tristan Del Toro (definitely his real name) knows the three things every woman needs to know before she will sleep with you. This e-book costs $4.95 “for the first seven days of service” plus a future payment of $40.05.

Eben Pagan and Annie Lalla were able to turn their recent nuptials into a three day “intimacy intensive,” where couples could shell out $997 to learn “how to take the intimacy, trust and love in your relationship to a much deeper level.” On the website, it was not explained why a pair of newlyweds were qualified to do this. In addition, there was a “woman and man couple” registration, but nothing for same-sex couples, implying that this event was strictly heteronormative.

All of the knowledge that has been uncovered about The Syndicate gives new meaning to how the so called manosphere operates.  There’s a lot of similarities between how internet marketing con artists operate and how the so called manosphere operates.  They both use the same tactics and in many cases the same language.  The so called manosphere even operates just like one of Frank Kern’s “syndicates”.  The only difference is that internet marketing con artists are much more effective than the so called manosphere at separating people from their money.

After learning about The Syndicate, Frank Kern, and the connections to game, what do we know now?

  1. Game is a scam, period.  There is no question about it now since it was created by an internet marketing con artist (Eben Pagan) who has deep connections to the rest of the internet marketing scam world.
  2. Every form of dating advice is a scam.  It is likely that any form of dating advice you can find now was either created by The Syndicate or influenced by The Syndicate so much it might as well be created by them.  (The only exception to this would be dating advice from someone who specifically attacks the seduction community such as Aaron Sleazy.)
  3. Anyone in the so called manosphere who promotes game works for The Syndicate either knowingly or as a useful idiot.  This is also true for anyone outside of the manosphere who promotes game or elements of game such as Susan Walsh or Dr. Nerdlove.  Since there is no real difference between a useful idiot who has been duped about game and someone who knowingly works for The Syndicate, we should treat them as if they all knowingly work for The Syndicate.
  4. Conspiracy theorists couldn’t find an actual conspiracy if it was right in front of them.  Not a single conspiracy theorist in the so called manosphere bothered to investigate who was really behind game.  This proves that all of the conspiracy theorists in the so called manosphere are frauds because if they weren’t they would have uncovered The Syndicate.  It’s possible that conspiracy theory is promoted in the so called manosphere to distract readers from finding out about The Syndicate by filling their heads with nonsense about the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, the Jews, and other conspiracy theory BS.  We don’t know if the conspiracy theorists of the so called manosphere knowingly work for The Syndicate or are dupes.  Since it’s impossible to tell the difference, we might as well treat them as if they knowingly work for The Syndicate.
  5. Paleo diet BS, “self improvement” BS, doomsday prepping BS, etc. in the so called manosphere are simply other scams in addition to game.  The proponents of all of these things in the so called manosphere overlap forming what is effectively a Frank Kern style “syndicate”.  It’s possible that The Syndicate is involved in these scams too.

There is some very good news knowing that game was created by internet marketing con artists.  The Federal Trade Commission has gotten involved against the internet marketing con artists in the past.  For example, the FTC fined Frank Kern nearly a quarter of a million dollars.  This means that our biggest ally in getting rid of game and the rest of the scams trying to invade the MRM is the FTC.  In addition, the FTC can also indirectly strike a blow against feminism since feminists (such as Dr. Nerdlove) are trying to use dating advice as a weapon against men.  Since The Syndicate has made almost all dating advice fraudulent, anyone who promotes fraudulent dating advice now can and should be investigated by the FTC.  Even if the FTC renders no monetary judgement against them, it will discredit anyone involved in dating advice whether it’s the so called manosphere or feminism.  Eben Pagan, the creator of game, is no longer involved with it.  He has moved on to other scams because he knows that game has been around long enough to get the attention of the law.  He’s smart enough to know to get out before that happens.  The so called manosphere and the feminists aren’t so they are the ones who will get discredited as a result.  When it comes to our purposes of helping the MRM and defeating feminism, this is the best possible outcome.

I encourage everyone to read the links on this page.  There is a lot of good information at The Salty Droid and the article at The Verge that can be used against the so called manosphere and feminists who push dating advice.  We now have proof that game and most other forms of dating advice are scams.  Use it as much as possible.

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100 comments on “The Syndicate: The Internet Marketing Scam Organization Behind Game

  1. Pingback: The Syndicate: The Internet Marketing Scam Organization Behind Game | The Black Pill

  2. I guess I can say I am one of the dupes, or was, (At least I don’t blog). It started with game, then self help, then moved on to nut jobs like Alex Jones. Before heading into the paleo diet, and finally just a huge steaming pile of skepticism. Ironically I’m at a point where I think almost anything “linking” various people together is basically tin foil hat bullshit. Although I’ve come to conclude that of all the various “movements” the MRM is the only one that has some small bit of truth in it, I still find it to be saturated with tinfoil hats. I just hope this post isn’t just one more of those hats.

    • Unfortunately this is very real and I think it was Aaron sleazy did a text dump from their Internet forum back in 2009 talking about how to market rsd as an improved style of pickup.

      The FBI is involved in investigating their mlm. I’ve never heard of them called thesyndicate but I did know about the Internet marketing group a lot of them use called Pushtraffic

    • The difference between you and the real dupes is that you were willing to realize you were wrong and move on.

      I agree that there are too many tinfoil hat types in the MRM. They aren’t real MRAs. They are just trying to use the MRM for their own agendas.

  3. I agree ‘game’ is bullshit. But – to keep it simple. What do you think success with women comes down to? Being hot and being rich?

    I would say so. Anything else is just bullshit.

    • What do you think success with women comes down to? Being hot and being rich?

      Well, it’s a bit more complex than that, and it depends on how you define “success with women”. What you suggest is just ONE MODEL. Your model operates on (I’m assuming) a definition of success where one gets a ton of high quality pussy effortlessly and easily.

      There are other models of achieving “success with women” based on different definitions of success.

      EXAMPLE 1 of “success with women” alternate model
      Would you define “success with women” as simply “Having fucked more than 200 women in a year no matter the women\s looks or what you did to get it done?

      In that case, a puatard might be “succesful” if they go and pester 100 random women a day (getting rejected by 90, and fucking 1 of them). Note, 1 out of 100 women will fuck anyone, So yes, if you don’t care about rejection ANY guy can get a new-lay-per-day

      Right? USING THAT MODEL ANYONE can be “successful with women no matter their looks, wealth or what not. Just waste a ton of time and get rejected a ton, you will “become succesful”. So in this model there’s effort on the backend. You go out, pester 99 women until you find the odd hottie that would fuck a less hot man even though he’s neither rich nor popular.

      EXAMPLE 2 of “success with women” alternate model

      Is your definition of success with women the act of banging 30 hot women over a life time despite being average looking yourself. And does your definition require that it be done without rejection (i.e. you bang those 30 without getting more than a few rejections here and there) and without a lot of effort.

      WELL THAT can be accomplished if you use popularity and social leverage. For example you can spend 3-10 years becoming extremely popular in a given community/niche by becoming the most connected guy in that niche and just befriending thousands of people. You’re still only going to fuck a fraction of the hot women (like the guy in model 1), but the difference is that in this model you operate in a situation where the “1 in 100 hot woman out of your league” is very likely to show very clear and undeniable interest in you. Since you interact with everyone over months, so there’s no need for harsh rejections from 99 women to find the one super-hottie who will fuck you, she’ll make herself known.

      In this model you use effort upfront (building reputation, status, connections and popularity, which have a similar effect to wealth, which oh by the way, wealth also requires effort).

      In sum

      On this planet men trade effort for pussy, UNLESS they were born wealthy/super-hot. Even if you fuck because you became famous, that’s still trading effort for pussy, since it took a lot of effort to become wealthy/famous.

      The PUA-tard trades effort by “sarging” where he goes around ego-gratifying random undeserving cunts with his attention for the few-percent-chance one of them will fuck him.

      • The MAIN POINTS to take away from my posts is that THIS is the reality:

        -> You can easily fuck women in your league (a significant percentage of them).

        -> You can easily fuck women OUT OF your league if you posses fame, status, popularity or wealth

        -> IF you don’t have fame, status or popularity, the only way to fuck women out of your league is to find the odd few of them who for some reason want to fuck you (a percentage of superhot women 10s will fuck a male 5 for whatever odd reason)

        EVERYONE operates in this reality, even if they don’t explicitly spell it out. PUAs for example credit a magical fairytale called “game” with them fucking a chick out of their league (the very few PUAs who aren’t virgins I mean). BUT THEY DONT TELL YOU their stats (i.e. that he got rejected by 99 hotties to bang one).

        *********
        There are two other models, from anti-PUAs. Both involving no rejection, and not hitting on random undeserving cunts.
        *********

        === AaronSleazy model: ===

        -> Where he tells you that you only have realistic odds with women in your looks league if you’re not rich

        -> YOU CAN fuck women out of your league, but out of pure chance. In other words, if you’re a 5 guy, one out of 100 tens might fuck you, out of pure chance (PUAs actually use this same dynamic just don’t tell you so in their marketing, they tell you about the one ten the fucked, but not the 99 that rejected him)

        -> Aaron suggests weeding women out by interest, and only making further moves on interested women. I.E where the PUA hits on and ego-gratifies a 100 undeserving cunts to fuck one… Someone following Aaron’s method would directly identify the one who’s likely to fuck you. He does this by

        —> A –> Becoming great at telling which woman might respond well to your approach from afar

        —> B –> once approached making subtle and ever increasing moves until he senses discomfort from woman. Only proceed if woman is comfortable with all. Basically you never get rejected. Most interactions just simply end on a social non-sexual level.

        *-> Personally, I’ve had an explosion in my sex-life over the past year doing some of this, but I combined it with popularity, fame and wealth (it’s easy to be rich in my country lol). I am not able to do A, and I think it takes a ton of social intelligence, so I don’t even bother with strangers at the point. I just do B on the hundreds of chicks in my wider social circle (where’s i’m popular, well known, popular and have a reputation as a wealthy guy)

        === Brent Model: ===

        -> The guy who teaches it is a bit of a woo-woo new-agey fruitcake, but he has some of the best critique of pua bullshit, however he has some of its bullshit parts too… so ignore the originator, here are the useful parts…

        -> In this model you never hit on women, you just become this super-social super-friendly guy who befriends and chats up absolutely everyone everywhere you go

        -> And this model again, works on the “1 out of 100 hotties will fuck you even if you’re a poor average looking guy” dynamic. It’s just that with this model you don’t get rejected by 99 hotties to fuck one, you just befriend like 200 people, and out of them 1 hottie emerges to hit on YOU.

        It’s originator (brent) will invent fairy magical tales about how it works, but again, it works on the model of pure numbers game.

        P.S (the 1 in 100 is totally arbitrary). Depending on whatever your league is. It might be 1 in 27 in your case. I’m just making a nice round 100 to make a point. The basic fact is that if YOU, whoever you are, walk up to an X number of random women and ask them for sex (not literally, through making moves), ONE will fuck you.

        That X number seems to be constant for a given guy. PUAs for example have never ever proven to beat the number, in fact they’ve failed to respond to all challenges of being tested to beat X.

      • “So yes, if you don’t care about rejection ANY guy can get a new-lay-per-day.”

        So why isn’t any guy doing this? There will always be homosexuals, “proud” omega virgins and the like, but studies have found that when an attractive woman offers a single man sex, he usually takes it. Men want sex, it is their nature. Why then, are most men not doing this if it is so easy? Why are so many men suffering alone or in miserable relationships?

        • He never said attractive women. I went out clubbing 3 days in the past 3 weeks. On day 1, I made out with a girl and got her number. Never called her. On day 2, I made out with a girl, kissed her breasts, sucked her nipples and got her number. I may fuck her. I probably won’t. day 3 was a sausage fest and total blowout. Why am I not fucking these girls. I am just not that into them and the sex just isn’t that important to me. I would much much rather have a girlfriend I really like than fuck randoms. The truth is that the majority of men are like me. Its just that culture, desperation and fantasies make men believe they are different.

          And I would say I pretty much suck at picking up girls. My conversations are ultra-boring. I don’t know what I am doing. I am not persistent and I am pretty lazy. I do however know how to dress well and I am not really short or ugly although I do suffer from wrong ethnicity syndrome (I’m Indian) But I still have ok success at getting with useless, random girls. One day I might really try and get sex with a hot random useless girl. Hurray. Can you sense my enthusiasm.

          Here is the typical PUA progression.

          Start out thinking you are going to fuck 100’s of gorgeous beautiful women and be irresistible.

          Approach 100 women and say something stupid. Get nowhere

          Approach another 100 women and get some numbers. ALL FLAKES.

          Get depressed and wonder whether you should just give up.

          Approach 100 women and actually manage a make out or two. Chicken out on many of them because you just can’t pull the trigger. Mostly because you just aren’t that comfortable with them.

          Approach another 100 and get some makeouts, get near sex but never seal the deal out of fear, a desire not to hurt or because you are not into her.

          Meet nice sweet girl. Seal the deal. Have relationship. Try to keep sarging but no longer motivated. Stop being a PUA.

          Most men follow this trajectory. Because most men do not want to have sex with tonnes of girls. Its overrated, tiring and most girls are plain annoying. Spending 2 hours with someone you aren’t even into for 20 minutes of ok sex is just not worth it. At the end of the day men are more like women than they think. And this is all that PUA teaches you in the end. Casual sex is highly overrated. Read about extramask’s first sexual experience in the Game and understand that it is typical.

          I have seen tonnes of guys talk all kinds of shit when in comes to fucking all kinds of women. But in the end their actions are very different than the things they say.

        • Why then, are most men not doing this if it is so easy? Why are so many men suffering alone or in miserable relationships?

          A statistic, beyond “failed 99 times, won 1”, that is ignored is …
          how many of those women/girls go out of their way to damage your reputation or ruin your chances by telling other women they know about how UNattractive you are?
          That is why “men are suffering alone or in miserable relationships” – it may be the miserable relationship they’re in, is going to be compounded further by having worse odds of having sex after leaving, or massively reduced assets after a divorce rape that he may instigate if the doesn’t bow down to the boss (the woman).

          I am very sure this is why men in those relationships treat the popular, attractive women very carefully (if they’re a normal guy) or very playfully (if they’re a pickup artist).

          They know the opportunity cost of becoming unattractive to such women.

  4. Note, it’s important to point out when we say “All dating advice” is a scam, we don’t mean 100% of it. We just mean 99.9% of it.

    Dating advice is like the general self-help field it falls under. It’s mostly filler, It’s mostly fluff, and it’s mostly marketing.

    Not all self-help is a scam, just 99.9% of them
    Not all weightloss products are a gimmicky scam, just 99.9% of them

    -> In self-help a good example of the 0.01% of non-scam would be someone like Jim Rohn.

    -> In Weightloss, a good example of the 0.01% would be someone telling you 1) COUNT CALORIES (or alternatively accept it’s all about caloriesin/caloriesout) 2) eat more vegetables 3) (optional) eat less processed foods because it’s easier to restrict calories when you eat foods that’s more filling… but no food has any inherent magical “fat-burning properties”

    -> In “dating”, a good example of common-sense shit is something like Ron Louis & Dave Copeland [especially mastery product] (they’re the 0.01%)

    -> In “getting laid”, the 0.01% is someone like aaron sleazy

  5. It’s important to note, for any newbies to this area that about 80-90% of ALL “game” concepts ORIGINATE in Eben Pagan. The scammer often shown in the video above. This is a very important point. I’ve been in this area for over 10 years, and I feel like slamming my head into the wall when these newbs think they’ve discovered something supa-amazingly-cut-edge concept by reading a krauser/roosh/roissy post, not realizing every single one of their concepts is a rehash on concepts originating from Pagan (DeAngelo).

    He is illiterate fuckhead high-school dropout who originally merged marketing with an illiterate misunderstanding of evo-psych. (the first to think that he is educated in “science” or evo-psych despite not having any formal education or a degree in psychology, scientific methodology or research). He also popularized fearmongering such as “YOU EITHER BECOME ULTRA MEGA POWERFUL “gamer” or women will hate you, and you will be a gay virgin rapist that women on cheat on for life!”

  6. My favorite part of the video:

    I guess manosphere-type gmae bloggers are the C team HAHAHAHAH – poor little fucks.

    • Stupid fucking wordpress converted my link to a video-embed 😀 I was ling directly to 10:33 in the video 🙂 for my favorite part ever 😀

    • I guess manosphere-type gmae bloggers are the C team HAHAHAHAH – poor little fucks.

      Yeah, they are. While I noticed that the so called manosphere acts as a Frank Kern style syndicate, the so called manosphere is a cargo cult compared to what Frank Kern and his Syndicate associates do. If they weren’t invading the MRM, this would be comical.

  7. OMG the next part is where a fat marketer is talking about “HATERS” and calling salty droid a “Hater sitting in a broke ass house with a broke ass computer bitching about their broke ass life and then wanna bust someone else’s balls”

    AS the camera pans around salty-droid’s nice apartment and to his expensive computer :d Salty Droid (the guy exposing these fucks) is actually a successful lawyer.

    Here’s how the “HATERS GONNA HATE” method works
    -> “Make Money Magically” Marketers use the same tactic as gamers. If you disagree with these “Make money magically” gurus, they accuse you of living in your mammas basement, broke and unemployed.

    -> “Lose weight magically” marketers use the same tactics as gamers. If you disagree with their scammy gimmicky weightloss products/diets they will accuse you of being fat. (the two strongest anti-weightloss-industry-scam critics I know are also the most ripped and best-chiseled guys I know)

    -> Gamers will accuse you of being a virgin gay rapist if you critique them in any way.

    • I think another thing to keep in mind is, even if someone is a virgin gay rapist or is living in their mama’s basement, broke and unemployed, that has nothing to do with whatever criticism the person is giving.

      Whether a person is rich or not is vitally important when the person is selling you a system that he promises will get you rich. Whether or not a person is swimming in pussy is vitally important when he’s trying to sell you a system that he claims will get you laid to ridiculous levels regardless of your looks.

      However for an onlooker to criticize something that is blatantly off about what is being sold doesn’t require those things. That’s like saying unless you have created a hit movie in your past, you can’t critique movies you watch.

      • HAHAHAHAH I FOUND THE BEST PARODY of “be alpha” game yet 😀 love it!!!

        ===========

        Announcing….

        The Amazing High-Flatus Seduction System ANY Man With A Colon Can Use To Get Hot Women Chasing Him And Begging Him For Sex

        Dear Friend Who Really Gives A Shit About Bagging And Banging Hot Girls,

        I used to be a real loser with girls; a bigger loser than even you are right now.

        But I stumbled on to a secret that you-yes YOU, sitting their pulling your pud and collecting unemployment-can put to use TONIGHT to start banging the juicy, huge-titted, succulent young tail that’s got you choking your chicken until you’ve got blisters.

        I don’t care if you are broke.

        I don’t are if you are fat.

        I don’t even are if you are too retarded to read this sales copy.

        All I care about is that:

        1. You are ready to get laid like a rockstar and….

        2. YOUR CREDIT CARD IS READY TO GET MAXXED OUT  TO THE LIMIT

        The Secret I Found In A Pound Of Raw Cabbage That “Jet Propelled” Me To Bedroom Super-Stardom, LIVING IN MY DOUBLE-WIDE!

        Here is the gunch “good news”, the “getting some gospel” you’ve been drooling to hear:

        Women Will Always Go For The High Flatus, And You Can Be That “High-Flatus” Guy, Usually In 3-4 Hours

        Look: back in the “cave man” days, guys didn’t have fancy  cars or big bank accounts. And usually, food was so scarce, no one was packing big biceps or tight abs.

        Nope, what mattered is access to resources-again, food.  And the way guys proved this was…

        By Showing All The Signs Their Bellies And Colons Were Filled With Grub That The “Cave Bitches’ Were Craving

        Yep. You got it.  The caveman who most “dealt it’ was the one who got his pink-club “felted” by all the most juicy cave-girls, because he was displaying access to the most precious resources for survival.

        ===========

        Courtesy of Ross Jeffries. The funny part is that WHEN you ARE educated in evo-psych and in pussy (i.e. you actually both DO fuck hot pussies AND have a degree in evo psych or other related methodology), you look at PUA blog posts on “being alpha” and they READ EXACTLY like the above post mocking them. It’s literally an equal level of retardation to claim that you can fart your way to “hotter pussy” as is the PUA-tard system of believing you can fake your way to pussy by “displaying and emitting high-status” traits.

        Look up “cargo cult” on wikipedia or previous posts written comparing Game to a cargo cult.

  8. You could also compare PUA/dating advice to economic ‘fads’ – fleeting fashions, like clothing or foodstuffs. Each year a different culture, part of the planet, is promoted as a haven of femininity, somehwhere that is better than ‘Western culture’ with it’s Feminist culture. One year it’s Latin American women, then the next year it’s East Asian women, then the year after that it’s Eastern European women. Always chasing the next thing, then next fad, the latest fashion. Like a food trend, exactly like you say.

    About a decade ago (here in the UK) the ‘Mediterranean diet’ was promoted as the big thing, with it’s healthy diet of fresh fish, pasta etc. Then a few years later a new fad comes out promoting the wonders of Asian diet with it’s fresh stir-fried vegetables and chicken etc. Nowadays it’s ‘superfoods’ (which are nothing more than normal foods which have been rebranded, given the ‘Hollywood’ treatment). If it’s not food then it’s something else. And they always want you to chase the next, latest, the hippest ‘thing’.

    And it’s always the same mindset that it creates in you, whether it’s fads with women or fads with foods: it strips you of your ability to reason and think, and instead causes you to emote, to feel. It makes you feel ‘excited’ not critical, ‘enthusiastic’ not skeptical. Anything that causes you to emote and not think is an enemy to you and your mind; a threat to keep at arms length. That’s why you should always be warey of such fads/gimiks. Be ware of people that call their chest fat ‘boobs’, that call their posterior fat ‘booty’, they want to strip you of your thinking faculties, they want to decieve you of their intentions.

    • They rely on your (many peoples) yearning for something “better” than they already have. Even if many of the concepts have a seed of truth, they take that seed and amplify it beyond all reason and then make you feel like that will solve all your problems, health, wealth, and romantic. Reading PUA material for the first time, when I was hopeless with women back in highschool, was exciteing it made you feel like there was hope. It really didn’t work, but when you first started reading it you didn’t know that it didn’t work. I have since become more successful with women, but not because of game. I think game/dating is worse than with other types of fake/bullshit advice because everyone knows in principle how to get ritch. Getting rich just takes too long, or takes too much work, or skills people don’t have. So scammers sell a get rich quick scheme, most people know this doesn’t work, but not everyone. However, with game/dating advice I can tell you personally at that age I had no idea at all how to find a girl/women. That, I believe, is why game is so dangerous and captivating and also devistating because there is no other advice, or at least none that seems to work. Of course game doesn’t work either but it is “different” which is why it invokes hope.

      • ‘was exciteing it made you feel like there was hope. It really didn’t work, but when you first started reading it you didn’t know that it didn’t work[..] [G]ame is so dangerous and captivating and also devistating because there is no other advice, or at least none that seems to work.]

        That’s possibly one of the worst aspects of any scam: it gives you false hope and only results in making your situation even worse than it may have already been. Like a drug addiction, or ‘crash diet’ weight loss plan or something, it promises much yet delivers nothing. In that regard it is very much like women: they appear like they are reasonable and capable of behaving and thinking honestly, but in truth they are not, they’re the complete opposite. They’re plausible not possible.

      • Chicago-JSO, unfortunately you are correct.

        Unlike with dieting, common-sense plain-sight alternatives to game are not mainstream.

        In dieting the common-sense solution is all over the place and it’s mainstream (eat less, minimize processed foods, exercise more, up your veggies).

        There’s no mainstream equivalent for getting laid. In other words, the mainstream acts as if though you as a man are just supposed to KNOW how to get dates by mere accident and getting laid is something that “just happens” (no wonder most hookups in the real world only happen by accident when two people are drunk out of their mind) And also no wonder why the sex-partner counts in the general population are so shockingly low.

        There’s no mainstream path/guide to getting laid, effective or ineffective. If there were, I guess Aaron Sleazy’s getting-laid concept would be as widespread as “eat less, exercise more, up veggies”…

        THERE ARE some anti-game truisms that are part of the mainstream such as: “It’s a numbers game”, “attraction is static in the short term i.e. she knows if she wants to fuck you tonight the moment you enter the room” etc…

        BUT NOBODY IN THE MAINSTREAM ACTUALLY TELLS YOU how to go from “hello” to having your dick in her pussy that night. It’s completely missing. As if though it happens on its own (which it doesn’t on this planet, women expect men to perform all the moves between hello and dick in pussy).

        Some men accidentally through experimentantion and observation learn it in the real world (naturals). Some men look for answers and stumble onto game (unfortunately 99% of search queries on how to go from hello to penis in pussy lead to game-blogs and forums), where aside from geting 60 confilicting roadmaps, you also get 9999999 other unnecessary bits of information instead of just the original “what are the steps between hello and my lips being on hers”.

        • I think one other element of complexity are the shards of truth in game. There do seem to be some behaviors that make men on average more attractive to women. Some of these behaviors are present in game. Gamers would say these behaviors can “generate” attraction in a women. The truth is that some of what game advocates can help you be more generally attractive to a higher number of women but just because your more attractive to a larger number of women does not mean that you can “generate” attraction in a women who has already rejected/decided she doesn’t want to fuck you. This is where the lie is, and part of why it’s so difficult to point out the lie. It’s not all wrong, just mostly wrong.

        • This is where the lie is, and part of why it’s so difficult to point out the lie. It’s not all wrong, just mostly wrong.

          Exactamundo.

          95% is fluff, and 5% has “some truth to it”.

          But even of the 5% that has some truth to it, 4% is misinterpreted or conflated. For example mixing up cause and consequence, correlation and context.

          The 95% of fluff is dangerous because it has you wasting your time on filler that makes no difference.

          The 4% that is misinterpreted or taught wrong or upside-down or taught wrong how to apply in practice (status, body-language, kino etc) is dangerous because it leads to tons of false-positives. For example when you’re in game you can spend years in a cycle of getting signals that it’s JUST ABOUT to start having those “magical effects you were promised” lol 😀 So the 4% keeps you stuck and believing it might have those promised effects kick in any day now.

          The 1% includes things like LEAVING THE HOUSE and talking to lots of chicks. This part is good IN AND OF ITSELF, but if you combine it to with the 4% misinterpreted reality and the 95% fluff ITS ACTUALLY DANGEROUS.

          The few guys who join PUA and APPLY the 1% (most PUAs don’t leave the house and are keyboard jockey celibates) – but for the few who do and apply the 1% (alongside the 95% and 4%) what happens is that they start getting SOME lays, and SOME dates, but they attribute it to the 95% and 4%. In other words it takes a lot of years for them to tell they’re doing no better than placebo (I.e. just leaving the house and talking to the same number of chicks doing whatever would have produced THE SAME results).

        • Unlike with dieting, common-sense plain-sight alternatives to game are not mainstream.

          This is a bigger problem than you think. Lets say I want dating/getting laid advice that works. There is no place I can go to get it. You might bring up someone like Aaron Sleazy, but finding him is very difficult. As good as his work probably is, there is still so much to be researched that his work is the smallest of beginnings in the right direction.

          When it comes to diets, there are lots of people who are invested in giving you the right answer. When it comes to dating/getting laid advice, there is only a handful, if that many. There are armies of people who want to scam men when it comes to dating advice. Not all of these scams are about money. Many are about hiding the real nature of women or making up lies about getting laid. All these people have different agendas, but the end result is the same. They do not want men to have dating advice that works. Dating advice scams serve their agendas, not honest dating advice that works. It’s to the point where we have people who are both dupes AND co-conspirators in dating advice scams because either they want plausible deniability or are engaging in cognitive dissonance about what they are doing. This makes the dating advice scam unique amongst all scams. All other scams have a clear line between who is a scammer and who is the victim of the scam. Only the dating advice scam has people who are both.

        • This is a bigger problem than you think. Lets say I want dating/getting laid advice that works. There is no place I can go to get it. You might bring up someone like Aaron Sleazy, but finding him is very difficult.

          Yep, that’s exactly what I meant. The odds of stumbling onto someone like Aaron Sleazy who explains getting laid without the fluff/scam is almost like hitting the lottery. I don’t even know of any other such example exists in the world.

          Most advice (99%) is the mainstream “Oh, if things are right it will just happen”, or you get shamed for even asking how you’re supposed to get laid and how the process works. Like you’re supposed to be born knowing it, and if you’re asking you are a gay rapist virgin for even asking how to get laid.

          And then 1% of the world’s get-laid advice comes from PUAs who are scammers and selling you mostly fluff and distortion. The odds of arriving to something like Sleazy are almost non-existent.

          Dating advice is a bit better

          I’d say as much as 5% of mainstream dating advice (I mean legit paperback books sold on amazon) are decent. Their main issue is they’re coming from a feminine perspective of getting dates which are interviews for a relationship, lol… but they’re still ok. Which is why there’s less problems in the general population with getting dates than getting lays.

          Still, it would take some luck to find a dating product specifically catering to men such as the Ron Louis & Dave Copeland’s Mastery Program.

        • The odds of stumbling onto someone like Aaron Sleazy who explains getting laid without the fluff/scam is almost like hitting the lottery. I don’t even know of any other such example exists in the world.

          And even as good as Aaron Sleazy is, he is far from complete. Actual dating advice that works would have a lot of caveats about how effective it would be for any particular person. For example, even the best possible dating advice wouldn’t work for someone like me.

          I’d say as much as 5% of mainstream dating advice (I mean legit paperback books sold on amazon) are decent

          I would estimate it at no more than 1%, and that 1% is either by accident or as a method of entrapment into a larger scam.

        • Not all of these scams are about money. Many are about hiding the real nature of women or making up lies about getting laid. All these people have different agendas, but the end result is the same. They do not want men to have dating advice that works. Dating advice scams serve their agendas, not honest dating advice that works. It’s to the point where we have people who are both dupes AND co-conspirators in dating advice scams because either they want plausible deniability or are engaging in cognitive dissonance about what they are doing. This makes the dating advice scam unique amongst all scams. All other scams have a clear line between who is a scammer and who is the victim of the scam. Only the dating advice scam has people who are both.

          Exactly. That’s a great point. Most of the mainstream advice on getting-laid is designed to actually FLAT OUT LIE to you and get you to beg for monogamous relationships.

          In other words, most mainstream get laid advice (coming from women and eunuchs) is designed SPECIFICALLY to NOT get you laid and have you only go for sex through relationships… which serves women.

        • An obvious example of this is the nice guy phenomenon. These are an army of guys who are furious and upset that society and women ACTIVELY LIED to them and SCAMMED THEM about getting laid.

          As you say, it’s much easier to distinguish a dieting scam from a getting-laid mainstream scam. One promises you to lose 20 pounds in 2 days with a magical routine, the other promises that you’ll get laid if you only become super-duper nice and giving and caring and attentive to women.

          THEY PURPOSEFULLY leave out the part where on this planet, women only get laid with you IF make the physical moves and treat her sexually.

          They don’t tell you that character is a TERTIARY factor (evil fucked up selfish men get laid a ton of they know how to sexually escalate, whereas the kindest male saints can be celibate if they don’t make moves). BUT NOBODY TELLS YOU about making moves.

          IN FACT your entire life you ONLY hear negative stories about making moves. A guy made a move too soon, DISGUSTING IDIOT. A guy made too many moves, ugh disgusting idiot.

          You don’t hear that all sex had between men and women involved the woman being a lazy passive cunt and the man doing a ton of persistent moves. THEY NEVER TELL YOU THIS in society. You just hear when it goes wrong.

        • ctual dating advice that works would have a lot of caveats about how effective it would be for any particular person.

          Actually Aaron sleazy gives caveats every other post or page in his book. He keeps telling you what won’t work for if you’re not rich, good-looking etc…

          For example, even the best possible dating advice wouldn’t work for someone like me.

          You know I call out bullshit whoever spouts it. You’re full of bullshit. Unless you have some weird of definition of “working” being “banging supermodels”, you have no evidence that you “can’t have success”.

          What is your definition of success?

        • Actually Aaron sleazy gives caveats every other post or page in his book. He keeps telling you what won’t work for if you’re not rich, good-looking etc…

          I stand corrected.

          What is your definition of success?

          Here’s the problem. Women only want 20% of men, give or take. Most of us are not in that 20% so that means if women get together with us it’s not because they want us. It’s because they have an alternate agenda like they want our money or are getting desperate to have kids before their biological clocks run out. Working dating advice should be about helping guys find women that actually want them, yet for 80% of the male population that is by definition, impossible. It’s not “success” to become the mark of a con artist. Similarly, my definition of “success” in this area doesn’t include getting laid by a hooker because she’s just doing for the money. So what’s the difference if she is trying to get at my money or something else of mine by other means (other than hookers are honest and up front about what they want)?

        • Here’s the problem. Women only want 20% of men, give or take. Most of us are not in that 20% so that means if women get together with us it’s not because they want us

          What kid of a supposed “anti-PUA” are you when you’re quoting PUA theory? PUA MARKETERS (specifically) eben pagan INVENTED that scaremongering tactic of saying “you’re either a playa whom women fuck for pleasure, or you’re a sapless idiot whom women just leech money off of while they fuck the alpha on the side”.

          YOU ARE QUOTING PUA MARKETER THEORY BLACK PILL. THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC VERACITY TO IT. At least not in that form.

          There is some truth to something similar. A small part of the male population has far more sexual partners than than the rest. But the same is true of females. Women have a similar percentage of females with super-high sex-counts… For the most part, they’re fucking each other, the playas fuck the sluts and the sluts fuck the playas.

          Another source of pussy for these playas is lowering standards. A male 8 will have one-night stands with 5s, which is easy.

          It’s because they have an alternate agenda like they want our money or are getting desperate to have kids before their biological clocks run out

          Let me guess. You’ve never ever in your entire life had female friends right? Let me ask you… those of us who have female friends, what is she the female friend trying to get off of us? It doesn’t fit your model. Could it be it’s POSSIBLE for a woman to ENJOY a man’s company?

          COULD IT BE that it’s possible women actually CAN enjoy sex for its own sake?

          Yes, in the end the biological urge to find a sperm giver or a provider is always lurking, but to say that 100% of female behaviour around men is AS predatory as you claim it to be IS THINKING JUST LIKE A FEMINIST.

          Let me give you an example. I have a ton of female friends, and I enjoying being with them, hanging around with them etc etc. IT IS TRUE that on some deep biological level I probably have “ulterior motives” like that I either want to “impregnate them all”, or am using them to “get access and approval toward their female friends’ wombs”. BUT AS A CONSCIOUS CIVILIZED BEING I AM ABOVE MY BIOLOGY. I know I’m not going to fuck most women I hang out with, and I DO like hanging out with them anyway.

          A feminist using your “all women are predators” logic, can and DOES turn it around and that’s how feminists come up with this view of “all men are predators”.

          Your VIEW IS EXACTLY LIKE A FEMINIST’S VIEW, just from the other side. It’s the exact same fucking coin, just the other side.

        • What kid of a supposed “anti-PUA” are you when you’re quoting PUA theory?

          The 80/20 rule is not PUA theory. It predates PUA theory. Like with so many other things Eben Pagan and the rest of the PUA scammers stole the idea and twisted it. The PUA lie that they use to scam you is that you can move from the 80% to the 20% not the 80/20 rule itself.

          Let me guess. You’ve never ever in your entire life had female friends right? Let me ask you… those of us who have female friends, what is she the female friend trying to get off of us? It doesn’t fit your model. Could it be it’s POSSIBLE for a woman to ENJOY a man’s company?

          No, I haven’t had any female friends, but that’s irrelevant. Sure, it’s possible for a woman to enjoy a man’s company, but possible doesn’t automatically make it likely or commonplace.

          Yes, in the end the biological urge to find a sperm giver or a provider is always lurking, but to say that 100% of female behaviour around men is AS predatory as you claim it to be IS THINKING JUST LIKE A FEMINIST.

          The difference is that I have EVIDENCE for my position, namely what feminism has done in the last 50 years. No such evidence exists for the feminist position. Also, I wouldn’t say that 100% of women are predatory, but many are. The rest of women (except for authentic female MRAs) all practice a combination of contributory negligence and perfidy making them accessories to predatory women.

          BUT AS A CONSCIOUS CIVILIZED BEING I AM ABOVE MY BIOLOGY.

          You’re able to do this because you’re a man. However, women are different.

        • Similarly, my definition of “success” in this area doesn’t include getting laid by a hooker because she’s just doing for the money. So what’s the difference if she is trying to get at my money or something else of mine by other means (other than hookers are honest and up front about what they want)?

          SO WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE that ALL WOMEN ON THE PLANET would only want to fuck you for money?

          You use the most fucked up circular logic on the planet

          Alek: What proof do you have that you can’t get women
          BP: Well I haven’t gotten any for free
          Alek: HAVE YOU ASKED OUT A 100 AND ALL 100 SAID NO?
          BP: Well I won’t even waste time asking since they’ll say no, because I’m in the 80% that women don’t say yes to unless they want money
          Alek: HAVE YOU ASKED a 100 women out and went straight for sex after the date (so there’s no motivation on her part aside from the sex) and all 100 said no
          BP: Well I can’t do that, since all women will say no
          Alek: How do you know that if you haven’t done it
          BP: Well I know since I’ve never had sex for free
          Alek: ***CIRCULAR LOGIC INSANITY OVERLOAD***

          LISTEN BP – We LIVE ON A PLANET OF LAZY FEMALE CUNTS THIS MEANS THAT THE ONLY WAY TO FIND OUT IF A WOMAN WANTS YOU OR NOT IS TO DO ALL THE WORK (and get rejected or laid). IN OTHER WORDS, EVEN THE GUYS YOU CALL THE “20%” ARE NOT SITTING AROUND AND WAITING for women to approach them or ask them out.

          Let’s say I alek am one of your mythical 20%. BACK many years ago WHEN I didn’t ask women out, and didn’t escalate I had years of no sex. Using your logic I was part of the 80%? Funny how when I started asking, I became part of the 20%?

          Fuck, how does that work. Or was I a 20%-er in disguise who didn’t know he was a 20% coz he wasn’t asking. BECAUSE LET ME TELL YOU WHAT, even the most handsome guy on the planet will be celibate if he doesn’t go to social events with women, approach them, etc. IN OTHER WORDS, even the hottest guy on the planet will not get random chicks on the street approaching him and asking him out (reference female laziness on planet earth). THE MOST HANDSOME GUY will be celibate for years if he doesn’t do shit. THE ONLY WAY to know if you are or aren’t someone women would say yes to is if you ASK!

          SO AGAIN, I ask your circularly logical brain to explain to me, how do you know women see you as nothing more than a wallet if you have never ASKED!?!?

          P.S

          AND ANOTHER THING – do you realize women are shit-scared of showing interest to men they don’t know well? In other words, yes, women don’t ask men out, but they do show interest, flirt, hint at wanting to be asked out, but in order to have that, you need to know them and hang around them in a social circle over months. SO WHICH 100 women have you had in your social circle in the past year BP so that you know for sure none of them has show interest in you (flirted, hinted at interest etc)?

        • SO AGAIN, I ask your circularly logical brain to explain to me, how do you know women see you as nothing more than a wallet if you have never ASKED!?!?

          Women are incapable of acting civil towards me. Being civil towards me is a necessary (but not sufficient) prerequisite for being interested me. Therefore women aren’t interested in me (except for possibilities like they want my wallet).

          And there are other reasons besides my wallet that a woman might pretend to want me. For example, I have had women email me via the contact form here on the blog who say they support me. Sounds good, right? WRONG. They were trying to recruit me into white supremacism, conspiracy theory, or some other kook bullshit. They didn’t want me. They just were trying to use me, but I didn’t fall for it.

  9. There’s no reply button up there, so this is a reply to AlekNovy and BP up there.
    I don’t and won’t get into the motivations of women with regards to finances. But I will bring up two things that for the time being appear to be scientific truth’s which would support the thoughts of BP. (I say for the time being and appear because as with any scientific principle it could be disprooved at any point it just hasn’t been yet.)
    The first is the evidence that only 40% of men actually reporduce while about 80% of women do. http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/is-there-anything-good-about-men-and-other-tricky-questions/ Although this article chocks it up to a history of men dieing in battle, etc, such that when women want to reproduce only a few men are available, I disagree and point to my second point as evidence that it’s just just men dieing in war.
    The second evidence I point to is the rate of paternity fraud which appears to demonstrate that even in peace time, when few men die thanks to war the ratios would still be pretty much the same. I don’t know of acurate numbers when it comes to paternity fraud there is a 2002 report which puts it at about 10% I have also heard higher numbers quoted, but I cannot varify those. In light of these facts it seems that some of BP’s synicism is justified. Although I agree taking it to extreme of all women are trying to use you for money unless you are some kind of genetic superstar is a little bit far fetched.

    • that some of BP’s synicism is justified

      Did you not notice the part where I said the same? There’s a modicum of truth to it. The issue is that BP takes it to a fatalistic either/or extreme.

      The issue is that he’s a male version of a feminist doing the same. It’s like a feminist who takes a modicum of truth about male sexuality and turns into a theory of all men being sexual predators and living in a “rape culture”.

      YES, if you are a genetic super-star, rockstar (etc) you will get laid far more easily and yes, there is a dis-balance towards attractive men. But the disbalance isn’t as huge as BP’s adoption of the PUA theory that claims you’re either a a pussy rockstar OR you’re ONLY getting used for your money/resources.

      The term “far-fetched” isn’t strong enough to capture how insanely disbalanced this perspective is. I’d use something closer to insanity.

    • Chicago JSO notice my original statement

      I had said

      YOU ARE QUOTING PUA MARKETER THEORY BLACK PILL. THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC VERACITY TO IT. **At least not in that form.**

      Do you not notice the “at least not in that form”. I am saying there’s NO TRUTH to that extreme version. I then specifically said there is truth to less extreme versions of it. It is true there’s a disbalance to a fraction of the men getting more than than the rest of the men. I even gave some examples of how it works.

      My beef is with the extreme notion that you either get EVERYTHING or NOTHING. It’s just like the marxist view that you’re either an “opressed worked being used by society and getting a raw deal” OR you’re “part of the elite and control the world” and there’s nothing in between “the 1% nonsense”.

      How can someone who knows how bullshit marxist rhetoric is in economics (BP would easily make fun of marxist hippies making conspiracy theories about but he has adopted an EQUIVALENT theory in the sexual market).

      It’s funny, in terms of the economic market, BP is a libertarian/conservative. In terms of the sexual market, he’s a marxist, and he can’t even see that!

      • “It’s funny, in terms of the economic market, BP is a libertarian/conservative. In terms of the sexual market, he’s a marxist, and he can’t even see that!”

        hahahahaha,

        that’s funny how it’s the reverse with Marcotte-excpet if you mentioned prostitution, then you’d be a subhuman rape apologist ™

        • Yes, I had said the same thing about feminists in the past.

          It’s ironic with marcotte-type feminists how in terms of economics they’re marxists, in terms of the sexual market they’re conservative.

          Though their excuse is that the sexual market isn’t a market 😀 So that’s how they sidestep that.

          But yah, if feminists (who are leftists) applied their marxist logic on dating, they’d be talking about goverment programs that assure an equal distribution of dates.

          But Marcotte says about dating “You will die a virgin, big fucking bohooo bohoo, some men are meant to be evolutionary failures, so fuck you. I don’t care if you weren’t born knowing how to get dates and I will mock you for trying to learn”

          That’s an equivalent to mocking disprivileged people of color for being poor, and telling them to “stop whining” or asking for handouts 😀 Imagine if Marcotte told poor to stop thinking they’re “entitled to money” 😀

          But that’s the exact thing she does in the sexual market 😀

          Isn’t that fucking ironic? 😀

      • I think were actually debating something different here. There is merit to the idea that women are selective and only mate with a subset of the male population which are in some way more attractive. I don’t think that’s actually the issue, the issue is how “we” approch dealing with this situation. In that I agree with you, BP does harp on the idea, you call it sexual marxism, that we need to “change” women so that they are less lazy, and willing to marry, mate with the group of men who they currently choose not to mate with. or force women to mate equally, which is also a ridicullous, psudo marxist idea. Indeed this is probabily the biggest thing I disagree with BP about. What I was trying to say above is that his perspective does more or less have merit it’s just his solution which is infesable.

        • hat I was trying to say above is that his perspective does more or less have merit

          Does the marxist perpspective has “more or less merit”? Marxists believe 1% of the population gets all the benefits and the rest of us are oppressed minions being butt-fucked by the 1%?

          women are selective and only mate with a subset of the male population which are in some way more attractive.

          How the fuck is that even possible to claim. Most people get married at least once in their life. The percentage of male virgins over 30 years old is very tiny.

          Most men can pass their genes along. This idea that women ONLY mate with a subset of the male population is fucking insanity.

          YOU MAY SAY that “a fraction of men achieve hyper-sexual success i.e. partner counts in the hundreds” and that would be correct, but to say that most men can’t even get laid is fucking insane.

        • It’s possible to claim because as I stated above it is a genetic truth that only 40%, or so, of men reproduce. I know plenty of men who are not virgins, who yet never had children. Does this mean that their is no hope for those men? No, many of them had productive and happy lives. Does that mean that men who currently can’t get laid won’t ever be able to get laid, no! The Marxist perspective is not that 1% of the people have all the wealth, although that’s part of it, the marxist perspective is that we need to take their money and “redistribute the wealth” so that everyone is qualitatively equal. Where the libertarian/conservative perspective is that those people who get that much wealth get it because they deserved it, worked for it and if I want to be like them I can work for it and get it too.

        • How the fuck is that even possible to claim. Most people get married at least once in their life. The percentage of male virgins over 30 years old is very tiny.

          Most men can pass their genes along. This idea that women ONLY mate with a subset of the male population is fucking insanity.

          You’re an MRA so you should already know most of the answer to this. In the US, for example, over 50% of marriages end in divorce, and over 90% of those are filed by women at the desire of women to get rid of their husbands. (The percentages are probably higher, but several states stopped collecting divorce data several years ago probably because it exposes women’s vile nature.) If women were attracted to the men they married and interested in their company, then there wouldn’t be high divorce rates like this. On top of that studies show that between 10% and 33% of kids are calling the wrong man dad. Well over 50% of the female population is engaging in vicious divorce and/or paternity fraud. This is hard evidence that most women are getting involved with men they hate either for money and/or social proof.

          We can’t say definitely that most men pass their genes along due to the high rate of paternity fraud. Saying that most men get married and most men get laid by 30 also doesn’t mean a thing since by that point women are desperate to use men since in most case 20% men won’t commit to them and give them the money and/or social proof women desire.

      • How can someone who knows how bullshit marxist rhetoric is in economics (BP would easily make fun of marxist hippies making conspiracy theories about but he has adopted an EQUIVALENT theory in the sexual market).

        It’s funny, in terms of the economic market, BP is a libertarian/conservative. In terms of the sexual market, he’s a marxist, and he can’t even see that!

        I am not a sexual marxist. I’m a you can’t have it both ways-ist. There has to be the same policy for both the economic market and sexual market. Either a free market in both economics and sex or marxism in both economics and sex would be an improvement over what we have now which is a sexual kleptocracy. It’s a sexual kleptocracy because sexual power by women to steal economic and political power. It operates as a Frank Kern style super-syndicate or like the mafia (which isn’t that different as we know since Frank Kern admitted that a “syndicate” should act like the mafia). This is neither marxist nor a free market since both systems are against such criminal enterprises.

        I would like to see both an economic and a sexual free market because it would include:

        1. No financial transfers to women
        2. Legal prostitution
        3. Rapid development of alternatives to women such as virtual reality sex, sex bots, and artifical wombs like PMAFT has talked about
        4. Imprisonment for women who pull this bullshit they pull now since what they do violates either criminal or civil law if not both

        Lot’s of people like to say that we have a sexual free market, but you can’t have one without an economic free market. If you don’t see the four things I listed above, then you don’t have a sexual free market.

  10. I found this titbit whilst looking for nothing in particular. It seems that even PUAs only manage to succeed with 10% of the women they approach. I don’t know what that’s like compared to most regular/Non-PUA men, but I that the success rates are quite comparable. Anyway, here it is:

    >>Paul Janka, a handsome fit PUA admits to only getting 11% (1 in 9) of the women he approaches to give him a real number. Only 11% – and I am sure he doesn’t get sex from all of those who do show interest. This is the power of game, and impenetrable frames and Roissy et al. Roosh has to leave the US to practise game as North American women are wise to his game.<<
    (http://greatbooksformen.wordpress.com/2012/08/13/dalrock-voxs-christianity-is-not-the-christianity-of-jesus-christ/)

    • Paul Janka, a handsome fit PUA admits to only getting 11% (1 in 9) of the women he approaches to give him a real number. Only 11%

      That’s a misquote on the part of the guy you’re quoting. Getting numbers is easy. Even noobs can get as much as 70% if they master a non-threatening approach (chicks give number to get rid of guys politely).

      What janka admitted to is that he fucks 11% of the women who’s numbers he gets. Make sense? Assuming he gets 70% of numbers, that’s a 1 in 14? approach to fuck ratio?

      • ‘That’s a misquote on the part of the guy you’re quoting.’

        Possibly. I made the mistake of not fact-checking it before hand, as would’ve been prudent.

        Cheers for the two links above. The only academic study that I’ve seen on approaching said that it was women that gave off some signal that they wanted to be approached, so, really, whatever you try to do to ‘up your game’ wont work unless the woman wants you to approach her in the first place.

        • Yes, that’s a point me and aaron always point out. It’s been proven that EVEN WHEN a pickup goes right, the woman wanted you to pick her up before you said a word.

          In those same studies they found the man was COMPLETELY unaware it had been the woman who had signalled interest first, and the man would talk about how he “won her over” or “picked her up” even though they had camera footage showing each individual man didn’t even notice the woman until she got him to 😀 But men erase that from their heads.

          Same happens in PUA. When one does succeed, he believes his fancy lines did it, not knowing the chick wanted to be picked up long before he said the lines.

  11. Pingback: Nothing The So Called Manosphere Says Should Be Trusted | The Black Pill

  12. Pingback: The PUA Scam Connection | Eradica

  13. Martian Bachelor’s Rule of Dating Advice (TM):

    ALL dating advice for men is bogus simply because no one is making women obey the same rules.

    • *THAT* seemed obvious when I first read Ross Jeffries’ book-let (I should’ve known). Fortunately at that point I had a ladyfriend who broke a LOT of rules in my favour };).

    • Women will obey the same rules, only when the guy is someone she or other women find attractive.
      In short, women follow the herd when they think it benefits them.

  14. I wouldn’t be so over confident the over 30 male virgin percentage is “tiny”, given the obvious fact most men wouldn’t dare put that out there in a survey, even anonymously, given the intolerence and supremicism on display by the supposed sexual majority in the mass media and society. I’m willing to believe there are many more over 30 virgin guys than we can possibly imagine. Lastly, the bigotry of the sexuals(the ruling mob) I’d liken more to fascism.

  15. Pingback: Joseph Mercola: The Eben Pagan Of The Paleo Diet | The Black Pill

  16. Good find. I always thought these types of people were off, selling things that seemed too good to be true. Now I think they’re criminals, preying on the weak, desperate, and naive.

    You make a strong argument for manosphere as scammer. I’ll need to think on it more before coming to a decision. For my part, I’ve always viewed them as entertainment. Perhaps therein lies the danger? What are your thoughts on the anglobitch thesis? The MGTOW forums?

  17. Pingback: Fake Anti-Gamers | The Black Pill

  18. Pingback: An Example Of How Conspiracy Theories Are Scams | The Black Pill

  19. Pingback: The Reason Why The Manosphere Attracts Scams By The Truckload | The Black Pill

  20. Pingback: Moral Arguments About Game Are Part Of The MDAD | The Black Pill

  21. The REAL person who originated dating advice was my grandfather. He was giving dating advice way before the internet even existed. He is obviously the mastermind behind this conspiracy theory. I just think back to what he said and what this Eben Pagan wrote and there can’t be any other explanation. Another character I think needs to be investigated in Richard Feynman. In 1985 he created game as an obvious marketing ploy to sell books.

  22. Pingback: You Are Only Allowed To Criticize Game In Very Limited Ways | The Black Pill

  23. Pingback: No Con Artist Wants A Solution | The Black Pill

  24. Pingback: Mystery, la fin d'un mythe - Page 4 - Forum seduction et drague - Forum artdeseduire

  25. Pingback: PUAs Are Hiding Under Everyone’s Beds | The Black Pill

  26. Pingback: This Could Have Been Partially Inspired By My Blog | The Black Pill

  27. It’s possible that conspiracy theory is promoted in the so called manosphere to distract readers from finding out about The Syndicate by filling their heads with nonsense about the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, the Jews, and other conspiracy theory BS.

    You list Jews as “conspiracy theory BS,” but you conveniently neglect to mention the fact that Eben Pagan is Jewish as are virtually all of the main figures in the PUA business.

    Conspiracy theory BS indeed.

    I would also like to point out that virtually all of the patriot / doomsday prepper internet businesses that cater to the Alex Jones audience are Jewish too.

  28. Pingback: The Manuresphere’s Demographic Time Bomb | The Black Pill

  29. Pingback: Roosh Proves That The Manuresphere Is The C (As In Cuckold) Team | The Black Pill

  30. I’ve had a fringe connection to the PUA community because of a breakup 5 years ago (which I repaired with my own koo-koo-voo-doo witchcraft, thank you). I’ve gotten emails from several vendors/guru wannabe’s. I quickly got the idea that it was a scam, but I couldn’t articulate why. The first page click-throughs look like that work of a 13 year old with mismatching fonts (ALL of them? Really?) and every garish primary color of the Pantone catalog…and the puerile soft-core stock photo porn (why bother?).

    What really tipped–and ticked–me off was the droning catechism of their ill-reasoned buyer manipulations, a.k.a “ads”. Like that other famous pyramid scam, the sacerdotal Roman church (well, they all are, ultimately), the PUA community believes that truth is found in repetition. What repetition accomplishes is merely redudancy.

  31. Guys, actually it’s very simple… PUA IS A NUMBERS GAME. The number of lays you get with, let’s say, 9s, is proportional to the time spent sarging multiplied by an eficciency factor. That doesn’t means PUA it’s bullshit, or approach success is random.
    See… Standard PUA game gives you and edge over a random strategy.
    If you don’t know what the fuck to do and don’t know the basics, you will get, lets say, 0.01 lays per hour of approaching (I’m assuming most of the population visiting this blog is at this level).
    Through experimentation (let’s say, 50 cumulative hours of sarging) you cold slowly build your way to the average rate, let’s say, 0.05 lays/hour.
    PUA comes to the help here: by having some basic concepts down and by increasing your knowledge about women psychology beforehand, in the same 50 hours of sarging you can get to, let’s say, 0.1 lays/hour of sarging. Yeah, I’m pulling the numbers out of my ass. It’s just for the sake of explaining my ideas.

    I don’t care if PUA comes from a penis enlargement scamer or shit. The only thing I care about is about it’s helpfulness. And I can tell you, “The Mystery Method” and “Magic Bullets” have A LOT of truth in them, even if some info is BS. I don’t care, neither should you. Just use the bits that make sense.

    Also, as a technology, PUA is as developed as it gets for the western world/culture. Don’t buy new products, just go to TPB and download those two books. You will have more than enough. Downloading/buying anything else is loosing your time.
    And the best thing is, unlike most technical books, they age VERY well. As long as a lot of men don’t use them, and bitchs start to recongnise patterns and up their shields, they will keep working as well as the first day for years to come.

    PUA is a lot like gambling, trading, and other probability games. Strategies just give you an edge over the market, and as long as a lot of market participants don’t use them, they’ll keep working. If suddenly everyone became a 10, then the old 10 would become 5. That’s the mechanics of it.

    If you are skeptic of all this, just think about it: it’s psychology man. It’s not throwing a dice every time you do an approach. There are impressions, there are perceptions, there’s a brain on the other side evaluating information and taking the decision of sleeping or not with you. There are a lot of factors under your control. I don’t say that PUA is the best method to optimize them, but they help you raise them above average.

    To the guy who said PUA is basically giving a lot of random bitches attention so some of them would sleep with you: that’s basically right, although is not any kind of attention. It’s more about making them pay attention to your peacoking, DHVs, etc. for a while until you two “connect” and you can seduce her into having sex.

    But really, do you have another option? Yeah, giving a few bitches your sustained attention for a lot of time instead of giving it to a lot of bitches. But really I don’t think that’s the most effective way you know. Because if you are on the autistic spectrum like a lot of guys seem to be here, aren’t a natural or don’t have game, you will get aproxximately the same probability of sex from a certain bitch if you spend 1 hour on her or 500 hours on her (aprox. 0% chances).

    As a final note: if you aren’t interested in sex at all then yes, the only winning move is not to play. If you are interested even a little I believe the best move is reading one of the books I mentioned and spending the rest of your allocated time to the activity of seeking sex in the field. That’d be more efficient than either just going in without any base or spending more time reading and consuming material than actually practicing it.

  32. I’ve wasted over a thousand pounds on David DeAngelo. That was two years ago and now I’m struggling with money. I hope things can pull through and hopefully they will but it will be tough. If I didn’t spend all that money on his crappie stufg I’d be a lot better off. He NEVER helps you of you email him. All you get is am email from one of his workers who markets you some crap. All his ‘newsletters’ are just emails advertising more of his products.

    I’m angry at myself for wasting all that money on his crap and for not saving enough money in my last job – although I did recoup they money I wasted on Eben. I’d have more though and enough to keep myself secure while starting up my business.

  33. Pingback: Did Game Cause Mystery’s Epic Meltdown? | The Black Pill

  34. I agree with all of this, except one thing: THEY ARE NOT CRIMINALS.

    They are exercising their right to sell and market. The sucker is getting something out of it too: hope. It’s an exchange between two consenting parties.

  35. Ok so I know this is an old thread and this comment may not even get read but I need to vent my frustration on the subject.

    Whenever I see people like David DeAngelo (Eben Pagen) and others like him get blasted on the internet and called con artists and every other name under the sun it really brings up the bile in the back of my neck. At the end of the day I really couldn’t care less if him and others are part of this “Syndicate” thingy because the big fat bottom line is THEIR STUFF WORKS!! Pure and simple. People can produce these arguments about pyramid schemes and internet marketing scams all they want but in the end the inescapable conclusion is that you can’t argue with results, And if a man takes on board the advice that the material of David DeAngelo, Neil Strauss, David Deda, FJ Shark teaches and interprets it properly and then gets out into the world and practices the material in a way that works for him it will produce RESULTS!

    The reason why the male self-help industry is even an industry is because it is needed, supply and demand. Very few men out there in the real world are naturals who are born with that ability to attract uncanny amounts of desirable women effortlessly. And when a man reaches that point in his life where he realises he is not a natural, is it acceptable for him to just sit back and say to himself “Ah well I guess there’s nothing I can do, I’ll just sit here on the fence and hope that one women will walk by and want to marry me someday” HELL NO that’s not acceptable. If a man is not successful with women then he HAS to help himself, he has to fix the problem, he has to get out there and address the issues he has and one by one fix them until not only is he equipped to be more successful with women, he is a better person more equipped to lead a more successful fulfilling life. But when we get to this point where we make the decision to fix ourselves what do we do next? This is where David D and the other Male self-help experts come in because how are we to know otherwise?

    The material taught by David D and other members of dating help community gives men that place to go, that place to start. David’s material even stresses the points of “Thinking about the types of women you may want and the qualities you’ll need to attract them” and also “Filtering out the types of women that may be no good for you” It is not a uniformed approach of “Dress like this, go here, say this, do that and she’ll fuck you”. What also separates David DeAngelo, Dr Robert Glover and David Deda, from others in the dating help/PUA community is they don’t focus solely on ‘Teaching Techniques to get women to bed’ they focus largely on what they call inner game. The process which involves digging deep into a man’s psyche and uncovering the issues, negative programming, social conditioning and other types of bad internal mantra that have plagued men all their lives and are the cause of many problems in their lives extending far beyond just success with women.

    I myself have benefited largely from the material taught by David D and other members of the Dating help community and as I said earlier you can’t argue with RESULTS! To give you a bit of background, I first Discovered David D online when I was 19 years old and was almost at breaking point. I had virtually no success with women in the earlier parts of my life. By the time Id finished high school I had a grand total of 3 girlfriends throughout my entire life, most of them lasting no longer than a few months and had only had sex with about 8 girls which to me was not success. After going through my first year of university only having sex with 3 less than desirable women I finally hit the brick wall and knew something had to be done right then and there. After discovering David D during the holidays and reading the weekly emails immediately my perspectives of success with women and dating had flipped on its head. I learnt so much about so many different topics it couldn’t even begin to list them all. And the results slowly but surely ramped up. Quickly I began sleeping with more women of higher quality, going on more dates and in general just having more fun and feeling better about myself and life in general. Then after a mere 4 months of my second year of uni I met the girl that became my girlfriend for the next 4 and half years.

    After I moved from New Zealand to Australia that relationship had dissolved by mid-2009 and after trying desperately and failing to get back on my feet afterwards I really started taking David D and co more seriously. Over the next 4 years I read the books Double your Dating, Attraction is not a Choice, How To Be the Jerk Women Love, The Game, No More Mr Nice Guy as well as doing David D’s ‘Deep Inner Game’ program as well as subscribing to the monthly ‘Interviews with Dating Gurus’ series. Through this I was able to alleviate all the negative points of my personality as well as worked a lot harder on my physical appearance and health and not only became much more successful with women but became a better person, I was proud to be myself, Comfortable in my own skin. By 2013 I met my current girlfriend who I’ve been happy with ever since.

    In Conclusion am I successful with women? YES, Could I have done it without the help I got? NO! The undeniable fact is learning from the likes of David D and others in the community produces RESULTS, Not just in success with women but life in general as the personality traits that hold us back in all areas are fixed by the same outlet. In the end no one can argue with results! So I don’t give 54 fucks about what people say about ‘The Syndicate’, Pyramid Schemes, Internet Con-Artist’s, Aggressive Marketing etc, it is invalid. What these guys sell is a product that is helpful and something not many man will take advantage of and therefore effective for those willing to undertake it. So unless you can present to me a valid argument that not only proves you are successful with women and in life but proves that you found success through a means that completely discounts anything that these guys teach then your opinion isn’t worth shit.

    Don’t make the claims if you can’t back them up.

    • Dude did you even go through the entire thread , all of your crap claims have been addressed and deconstructed.

      • Yes I did and they dont proove fuck all! At the end of the day nothing is more important than REAL life experience.

        • “nothing is more important than REAL life experience.”

          Your shitty anectdotes that is, which proves in the end nothing at all.

  36. Pingback: MGTOW: PUAs Are the Bottom Feeders of the Internet Scam Industry | IM Success.Today

  37. Pingback: MGTOW: PUAs Are the Bottom Feeders of the Internet Scam Industry | Teacher Dougles Chan

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